Dream Team - no more mids after Tom and Jack

[The Chazz 4,077]

Do we need any more mids after we use 1 & 2 on Tom & Jack? I don't think we do.

Well, I've been trying to put myself in the shoes of the Match Committee for the next couple of seasons, and am finding it bloody hard. Based on the assumption that we will pick up Tom and Jack 1 & 2 (in no particular order), list management and development is going to be critical over the coming seasons. This is what I've come up with;

B Frawley Warnock Bennell

HB Rivers Garland Grimes

C Bruce Moloney Trengove

HF Davey Watts Scully

F Jurrah Martin Green

R Jamar Sylvia McDonald

Int from

Morton Jones Maric Meesen Blease Strauss Jetta Aussie

As you can see, there are a number of players not mentioned that I rate (ie Petterd, Dunn, Bate, Cheney), and those that I don't rate too.

I have also highlighted those that are more than capable of playing in the midfield (for rotation purpooses). As you can see, we have sufficient numbers for this area. I have also got Stef Martin starting at FF, can rotate with Jamar and Meesen in the ruck.

The other thing I haven't mentioned is who we will also gain with picks 11 & 18. I'm assuming there will be a KPP picked, so they will play senior footy at some stage next season.

I would like to think that Bailey will pump as many games into these young guys that their developing bodies can handle. While I am far from classing Jones, Davey, Sylvia and Moloney as top-class midfielders, they are the best we've got and will help develop and protect these young blokes.

I have not set this post up for everyone to have pot shots at my "dream team", just an opportunity to pick your top 22-26 players. I can't believe I have Morton on the bench, but hey, picking from the kids we have is bloody hard - give it ago before you abuse my team!

[Jaded No More 68,903]

You can take out Bruce, Junior and probably Green. None will be around in 2015.

[The Chazz 4,077]

You can take out Bruce, Junior and probably Green. None will be around in 2015.

Totally agree Jaded, but I think for the next 1-2 years, we still need them in there. As they drop off, hopefully the likes of Strauss and Blease will be hungry and developed.

Obviously injuries haven't been taken in to consideration.

What I would like to see if us target a couple of "smokey" defenders with later picks now. We have potentially the best back line going around, why not develop a couple of big, young kids now so that when Warnock and Rivers get a bit older, we have 1 or 2 kids that are in the system that can replace him straight away, rather than have to bottom out and start from scratch. Same as the midfield, there is still a draft next year, and the year after, so there will always be handy little pick ups regardless of how many picks GC17 and GWS18 get. There is also the ability to trade for players that will fill a hole if need be.

[JACKATTACK 17]

I have also highlighted those that are more than capable of playing in the midfield

There are a few there that are just maybe good. Blease, Strauss, Jetta, Maric, Aussie are no certainty to be midfielders, even rotating mids. Trengove and Scully certainly sound like good prospects, but that is all they are at this stage, good prospects. Then take out some of the older players who will start to fade away over the next 3 years and there aren't many left. Pick 11 I think should be used on a tall, but after that just take the best player, big or small.

[Guest hangon007]

Do we need any more mids after we use 1 & 2 on Tom & Jack? I don't think we do.

Well, I've been trying to put myself in the shoes of the Match Committee for the next couple of seasons, and am finding it bloody hard. Based on the assumption that we will pick up Tom and Jack 1 & 2 (in no particular order), list management and development is going to be critical over the coming seasons. This is what I've come up with;

B Frawley Warnock Bennell

HB Rivers Garland Grimes

C Bruce Moloney Trengove

HF Davey Watts Scully

F Jurrah Martin Green

R Jamar Sylvia McDonald

Int from

Morton Jones Maric Meesen Blease Strauss Jetta Aussie

As you can see, there are a number of players not mentioned that I rate (ie Petterd, Dunn, Bate, Cheney), and those that I don't rate too.

I have also highlighted those that are more than capable of playing in the midfield (for rotation purpooses). As you can see, we have sufficient numbers for this area. I have also got Stef Martin starting at FF, can rotate with Jamar and Meesen in the ruck.

The other thing I haven't mentioned is who we will also gain with picks 11 & 18. I'm assuming there will be a KPP picked, so they will play senior footy at some stage next season.

I would like to think that Bailey will pump as many games into these young guys that their developing bodies can handle. While I am far from classing Jones, Davey, Sylvia and Moloney as top-class midfielders, they are the best we've got and will help develop and protect these young blokes.

I have not set this post up for everyone to have pot shots at my "dream team", just an opportunity to pick your top 22-26 players. I can't believe I have Morton on the bench, but hey, picking from the kids we have is bloody hard - give it ago before you abuse my team!

Nice Post ... here is how I saw it moving forward for next year at least

Best Team ... depending form & injuries

B Frawley Warnock Bennell

HB Rivers Garland Grimes

C Morton Moloney Trengove

HF Bate Watts Scully

F Aussie Jurrah Green

R Jamar Sylvia Davey

Int from ... including veterans

Jones, Maric, Meesen, Blease, Strauss, Jetta, Pettard, Martin, Spencer, Cheney, Bail, Pick 11 ND, Pick 18 ND, Pick 34 ND

Veterans = Bruce McDonald

Total number = 34 players - 2 veterans = 32 spots

Which leaves the following players or picks to fill 6 spots

Newton, Bartram, Miller, Bell, Johnson, McNamara, Dunn, Buckley, Valenti, Pick 50 ND & Pick 1 PSD

Rookies = McKenzie, Healey, Hughes (assuming he does'nt get picked up in ND)

Now this is where the fun begins ... depends heavily on trade week.

Available spots

1/ Brad Miller ... I really want to keep Brad think its vital to let Watts & Jurah to develop at own pace

2/ Lyndon Dunn ... Mr versatility thats why I prefer to keep

3/ Clint Bartram ... Hangs on just

4/ Simon Buckley ... One more year please

Here I draw the line with tooooo many variables and tooooo many grey areas

Newton, Johnson, Bell, McNamara, Valenti, Pick 50 ND & Pick 1 PSD ... 2 spots available depends heavily on trade week & draft table

C'mmon pick the holes ... thanks guys!

Edited September 29, 2009 by hangon007

[Nasher 33,613]

Saying we don't 'need' any more of a particular type is like saying there is such a thing as having too good a side. For every good player you add, you squeeze out another one who's not as good. It's a cycle that needs to be constantly added to.

[The Chazz 4,077]

There are a few there that are just maybe good. Blease, Strauss, Jetta, Maric, Aussie are no certainty to be midfielders, even rotating mids. Trengove and Scully certainly sound like good prospects, but that is all they are at this stage, good prospects. Then take out some of the older players who will start to fade away over the next 3 years and there aren't many left. Pick 11 I think should be used on a tall, but after that just take the best player, big or small.

Agree with Maric, Aussie and Jetta regarding better suited as forward pockets - to be honest the jury is still out on Aussie, showed a bit in his first season, obviously injuries crippled him this year, but I hope he steps it up next season. Strauss and Blease are certainties to play in the middle/flanks IMO, just need to check out past highlights of their play. Bailey loves those 2 boys too, I assure you they will play a number of games for the Club in 2010.

I just can't help but try and mould our midfield around what Geelong have done. Moloney might just be good enough to play that Ablett type role, Trengove could just be our Selwood, Grimes floats like Bartel, and perhaps Sculley or Morton can roam similar to Joel Corey and Corey Enright. Obviously we're a couple of years off matching them in quality, but I can't help but think that if Bailey plays blokes like Grimes, Morton, Sculley, Trengove, Blease, Strauss in as many games with each other this season as possible, they will build an incredibly strong bond that is required to win games of footy. Throw in the more experienced Sylvia, Moloney, Jones and Flash for that maturity and leadership, it can only benefit next season, and for years after. Just a shame that we don't have that 1 or 2 top level midfielders already, but I guess that's what comes with a team that bottoms out.

[Maric Legend 0]

The Grimes comparison to Bartel is quite apt IMO, and I do love Jimmy in every way.

[JACKATTACK 17]

Strauss and Blease are certainties to play in the middle/flanks IMO, just need to check out past highlights of their play.

I like your optimism, but I wouldn't have them as certainties to make it at AFL level. Picks 17 & 19 end up being decent player's about half the time and I have seen nothing from either of them to suggest they will be any different.

If anything Strauss has been dissapointing, judging him on one injury interrupted year might be a bit unfair, but better than judging his highlights.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

There are a few there that are just maybe good. Blease, Strauss, Jetta, Maric, Aussie are no certainty to be midfielders, even rotating mids. Trengove and Scully certainly sound like good prospects, but that is all they are at this stage, good prospects. Then take out some of the older players who will start to fade away over the next 3 years and there aren't many left. Pick 11 I think should be used on a tall, but after that just take the best player, big or small.

This is true of any list that isn't holding the premiership cup, though. Hawks went nuts drafting a few years ago, and a good amount of their kids haven't come on... think Thorp, Dowler... even Muston (through no fault of his own) who was highly rated.

The point is not to look at the list and say "who WON'T make it" but to give your club and recruiters the best possible chance. And I think we've done that. Any more trades of mature players for picks and we'll be fielding a team of kids, and that would be worse.

And for the record, every one of the names you mention (besides Aussie, who is a known entity, and maybe Jetta) have superstardom within their abilities. Yes, we'd be lucky if 1 or 2 became superstars of the game, but at this stage, there's no such thing as a sure thing. We're as close as any recruiter has come to drafting a teenager that WILL be a superstar.

ie, I doubt the recruiters of Ablett, Judd, Riewoldt were any more sure than BP. In fact, I reckon Roo was probably the last top pick that the recruiters knew without reservation was going to be a good player. Watts, at his age, with his reputation, was as good a prospect as Riewoldt.

Saying we don't 'need' any more of a particular type is like saying there is such a thing as having too good a side. For every good player you add, you squeeze out another one who's not as good. It's a cycle that needs to be constantly added to.

Which is why the upcoming GC palava is going to hurt us more than I think people realise. The demons of 2012-2018 are not going to be made up SOLELY of the players we pick up this year. The odd pick 8, or pick 10 will go along way to putting the cherry on top.

[rpfc 28,383]

Newton, Bartram, Miller, Bell, Johnson, McNamara, Dunn, Buckley, Valenti, Pick 50 ND & Pick 1 PSD

The 6 that would survive from your group are Newton, Bell, Johnson, Dunn (as those four are contracted apparently), PSD1 (always keep PSD1), and Miller (as he is your 1st preference to survive from the rest that are OOC).

Pick 50 will not be used.

Batram, McNamara, Buckley, and Valenti to be delisted.

Barring trades of course...

Busy week next week, I presume...

[Disco Demons 92]

B Frawley Warnock Bennell

HB Rivers Garland Grimes

C Bruce Moloney Trengove

HF Davey Watts Scully

F Jurrah Martin Green

R Jamar Sylvia McDonald

Int from

Morton Jones Maric Meesen Blease Strauss Jetta Aussie

i just hope our project players have plenty of pace and can hit targets to begin iwt!

[dee-luded 2,959]

What I would like to see if us target a couple of "smokey" defenders with later picks now. We have potentially the best back line going around, why not develop a couple of big, young kids now so that when Warnock and Rivers get a bit older, we have 1 or 2 kids that are in the system that can replace him straight away, rather than have to bottom out and start from scratch. Same as the midfield, there is still a draft next year, and the year after, so there will always be handy little pick ups regardless of how many picks GC17 and GWS18 get. There is also the ability to trade for players that will fill a hole if need be.

Yep, Talia & Dylan Grimes are of interest to me.

Talia will be able to play defence or forward as I believe Morton could do as well.

D Grimes could be a developement back like we did with Frawley.

[Old Man Rivers 326]

I like your optimism, but I wouldn't have them as certainties to make it at AFL level. Picks 17 & 19 end up being decent player's about half the time and I have seen nothing from either of them to suggest they will be any different.

If anything Strauss has been dissapointing, judging him on one injury interrupted year might be a bit unfair, but better than judging his highlights.

Exactly what is it you expected to see from Blease in 2009?

He didn't friggin play!

Trust me we struck gold when this kid slipped to 17 in last years draft.

Will be an excitement machine by the end of 2010 & even you Jack Attack will be thanking the footy gods he landed in our lap.

Hopefully Strauss justifies the wraps he has on him also.

So many just dont know yet what we have on our list. Patience & all will unfold over the next three years.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

Exactly what is it you expected to see from Blease in 2009?

He didn't friggin play!

Trust me we struck gold when this kid slipped to 17 in last years draft.

Will be an excitement machine by the end of 2010 & even you Jack Attack will be thanking the footy gods he landed in our lap.

Hopefully Strauss justifies the wraps he has on him also.

So many just dont know yet what we have on our list. Patience & all will unfold over the next three years.

I'd love to know, in all honesty, why you rate him so highly.

In other words, what have you seen of him that's making you so insistent he's a bona-fide star?

This isn't a wind up. I'd just really like some background.

[Guest hangon007]

Newton, Bell, Johnson, Dunn (as those four are contracted apparently)

.... apparently is the key word

PSD1 (always keep PSD1)

... well all depends think we will make that decision on draft day.

Pick 50 will not be used.

... yes my thinking is .... it costs another player a spot on our list .... so hence I think it this stage we are more likely not to use ... however dependent on trade week

Batram, McNamara, Buckley, and Valenti to be delisted.

Barring trades of course...

Busy week next week, I presume...

all depends on that "apparently" and what the boys negotiate ... ... plus we might consider the old delist and possible redraft to keep our options open.

[JACKATTACK 17]

Exactly what is it you expected to see from Blease in 2009?

He didn't friggin play!

Trust me we struck gold when this kid slipped to 17 in last years draft.

Will be an excitement machine by the end of 2010 & even you Jack Attack will be thanking the footy gods he landed in our lap.

Hopefully Strauss justifies the wraps he has on him also.

So many just dont know yet what we have on our list. Patience & all will unfold over the next three years.

I'm not saying he's no good, all i'm saying is we don't know yet. As far as i'm concerned they're the equivelant of draftess this year. In my view directing our draft selections away from a certain type because of players who havn't even played yet is irresponsible. I do have high hopes for Blease and Strauss, but I am realistic about the likelyhood of both being 200 game players.

As for Strauss, I had my eyes on McKernan here, and I would have taken Swift. But I understand these players have their drawbacks so i'll give BP the benefit of the doubt and trust that having a skilled user of the ball is a higher priority than a ruckman. Still hurts a bit that we avoided Swift because of injury concerns, only to pick Strauss who was injured for his first year while swift played and by all reports played well. Very early days though.

[The Chazz 4,077]

I'm not saying he's no good, all i'm saying is we don't know yet. As far as i'm concerned they're the equivelant of draftess this year. In my view directing our draft selections away from a certain type because of players who havn't even played yet is irresponsible. I do have high hopes for Blease and Strauss, but I am realistic about the likelyhood of both being 200 game players.

As for Strauss, I had my eyes on McKernan here, and I would have taken Swift. But I understand these players have their drawbacks so i'll give BP the benefit of the doubt and trust that having a skilled user of the ball is a higher priority than a ruckman. Still hurts a bit that we avoided Swift because of injury concerns, only to pick Strauss who was injured for his first year while swift played and by all reports played well. Very early days though.

Do we know Jurrah is going to come back as good in 2010. Hell, he may not come back to training at all. Do we know for a fact that Watts, Trangove and Scully are going to be stars? NOT YET!!! But I bet every sane Melbourne supporter has high hopes for them. It's the same as Blease and Strauss. I'm excited about Strauss, only because of Bailey's opinion of him (he always seems to mention his name when talking about the younger guys), and with Blease, I just have a feeling in my waters! I like the U18 highlights I've seen of him, looks very good.

[JACKATTACK 17]

Do we know Jurrah is going to come back as good in 2010. Hell, he may not come back to training at all. Do we know for a fact that Watts, Trangove and Scully are going to be stars? NOT YET!!! But I bet every sane Melbourne supporter has high hopes for them. It's the same as Blease and Strauss. I'm excited about Strauss, only because of Bailey's opinion of him (he always seems to mention his name when talking about the younger guys), and with Blease, I just have a feeling in my waters! I like the U18 highlights I've seen of him, looks very good.

High hopes are all well and good, and we all have high hopes for all our top picks, but the reality is that a player's quality is not determined by the pick they were taken at, or youtube highlights. Some perform better, some worse. If we're planning for the future, we have to keep this in mind and not place unrealistic expectations on the quality of players yet to play a game.

Now there do seem to be a few talls around, so i'm not against taking one of them if they're available at 11. But if they are gone I would hate for us to chase a player who might otherwise go at 20 and overlook a good midfielder.

[mordja 187]

The 6 that would survive from your group are Newton, Bell, Johnson, Dunn (as those four are contracted apparently), PSD1 (always keep PSD1), and Miller (as he is your 1st preference to survive from the rest that are OOC).

Pick 50 will not be used.

Batram, McNamara, Buckley, and Valenti to be delisted.

Barring trades of course...

Busy week next week, I presume...

Was it just me or did Valenti play his ar$e off at the end of the season. McNamara certainly cant be cut after a handful of games.

Am i missing something?

[JACKATTACK 17]

Was it just me or did Valenti play his ar$e off at the end of the season. McNamara certainly cant be cut after a handful of games.

Am i missing something?

Mclean, RObbo, whelan & wheatly are gone, so there is picks 1,2,11,18.

2 more spots to find , for picks 34, and PSD1.

Edited September 30, 2009 by JACKATTACK

[hoopla 418]

Batram, McNamara, Buckley, and Valenti to be delisted.

Barring trades of course...

This analysis is getting pretty close - but I reckon you are discarding McNamara ( still only 19) a bit quickly - and Buckley (if fit) would be a loss given his ability to break the lines.

We really need to aim to trade 2 players (net) for 2 picks (minimum) - so that only Bartram and Valenti have to be de-listed.

Let's hope there really is some action next week - not 5 days of to'ing and fro'ing for no result like last year and the year before!

[rpfc 28,383]

The names that I posited are the ones that hangon007 was mulling over.

My deletions are slightly different but not by much.

I really think it is moot until trade week because we might do a few 'nufty' deals like Newton somewhere for a pick we won't use.

We can do this thread in more detail at the end of next week.

Edited September 30, 2009 by rpfc

[hoopla 418]

The names that I posited are the ones that hangon007 was mulling over.

My deletions are slightly different but not by much.

I really think it is moot until trade week because we might do a few 'nufty' deals like Newton somewhere for a pick we won't use.

We can do this thread in more detail at the end of next week.

Agree ... too many unknowns at this stage - and the Newton situation is a bit anomalous.

Our bottom line is the same - we really need to trade for a least two extra picks

[JACKATTACK 17]

Our bottom line is the same - we really need to trade for a least two extra picks

Why do we need more picks?