John Butcher

[Scully The Tank Engine 0]

You want to take Butcher on a wing and a prayer!

What qualities does he have that make you think he's a sure thing?

Beyond good hands and height, what has he got?

ha ha

Athleticism, goal kicking ability, a football brain..what more do you want, when players of his type are as rare as hen's teeth? I didn't say he's a 'sure' thing. You're putting words into my mouth bud.

I just said he should be on our radar because he's an exciting prospect, and he would fill a gaping hole that we have in our forwardline. We won't get access to a KPP of his potential at pick 18 I can tell you that...

[e25 5]

ha ha

Athleticism, goal kicking ability, a football brain..what more do you want, when players of his type are as rare as hen's teeth? I didn't say he's a 'sure' thing. You're putting words into my mouth bud.

I just said he should be on our radar because he's an exciting prospect, and he would fill a gaping hole that we have in our forwardline. We won't get access to a KPP of his potential at pick 18 I can tell you that...

No, I'm saying pick 2 should be a sure thing and Butcher is hardly that.

& football brain is a stretch for him. Goal kicking is suspect/ inconsistent.

[e25 5]

No worries.

Look his injury may well have hampered him and his form this year.

While I seem to be harsh on him - he has his good aspects too which will appeal to clubs:

He's not scared of the collision and he jumps honesty at the footy in the air, he has a great pair of hands.

However, like all kids in the draft he has his downsides also:

His kicking is extremely hot and cold (im also referring to field kicking here) - and his efforts over a 4 quarter period leave a lot to be desired.

Sadly has looked out of sorts with his peers as well this year (at Maffra and Gippy). He's got some talent but has struggled to impact this year, and I personally would love to see him at CHB for a few games to demonstrate his versatillity.

But thats only my opion - hope it helps <_<

I'm interested in what your opinion is on his ability to cover ground.

In my opinion he's average, but I'd want someone with exceptional mobility personally.

[Dr Jekyl & Mr Hyde 0]

I'm interested in what your opinion is on his ability to cover ground.

In my opinion he's average, but I'd want someone with exceptional mobility personally.

I think there are certain areas where Butcher needs to be "schooled"

1. He needs to learn to PRESENT, PRESENT, PRESENT at all costs - like a Riewoldt.

There are times where I've seen him offer one lead, upon being ignored - he either just casually jogs or he remains motionless.

2. He needs to learn to that there is life beyond the forward half of the ground.

Essentially he needs to present more of an option down the wing or past the half forward line - even moving into defence to match up or offer a contested mark if need be.

3. He needs to learn to that aside from marking - KICKING is essential to the game.

Needs to become more consistant with his goal kicking AND his field kicking to teammates. If he's going to be trained and groomed into a CHF - then he will most likely be taking marks on the wing, and flanks, and down the ground. Therefore he needs to improve his kicking to be able to hit moving targets.

[e25 5]

I think there are certain areas where Butcher needs to be "schooled"

1. He needs to learn to PRESENT, PRESENT, PRESENT at all costs - like a Riewoldt.

There are times where I've seen him offer one lead, upon being ignored - he either just casually jogs or he remains motionless.

2. He needs to learn to that there is life beyond the forward half of the ground.

Essentially he needs to present more of an option down the wing or past the half forward line - even moving into defence to match up or offer a contested mark if need be.

3. He needs to learn to that aside from marking - KICKING is essential to the game.

Needs to become more consistant with his goal kicking AND his field kicking to teammates. If he's going to be trained and groomed into a CHF - then he will most likely be taking marks on the wing, and flanks, and down the ground. Therefore he needs to improve his kicking to be able to hit moving targets.

Boom.

Exactly my concerns. Good to know its not just me.

[Scully The Tank Engine 0]

No, I'm saying pick 2 should be a sure thing and Butcher is hardly that.

& football brain is a stretch for him. Goal kicking is suspect/ inconsistent.

So how many KPP prospects are 'complete players' when they're drafted into the system? Naitanui has absolutely no idea where to run in a game. That's a pretty big weakness you'd think. I reckon you're being too harsh on Butcher tbh. I'm not saying he's the 2nd best player in the draft at this stage. I'm just saying that he should be on our radar.

I'd like to see a bit more discussion about some of the other players. Everyone's on the Trengove bandwagon it seems, but there are other prospects that have good claims too...

[dee-luded 2,958]

As a reply im a SA guy but hate both SA teams & over here you dont hear a word about Skully,obviously partly because the media here talk theyre own up & also we dont get much info about TAC cup except scores & best players.With 100% certanty the Crows & Power would both take Trengove at 1 if they had that pick.Rate him very highly & he has been gathering 30plus possies every week playing in Sturts league side.Heres my picks then.1 take Skully,2 take Trengove & with our 3rd pick i believe that Matt Panos might still be around,over here theyre saying he will go in 2nd round.That would be perfect,2 elite mids then the leading goal kicker in u18 carnival for our 1st 3 picks

'dee-man', can you post us some links please to some of those newspaper articles which mention the Power & Crows wishing for Trengove. That would be good reading.

[dee-luded 2,958]

As a reply im a SA guy but hate both SA teams & over here you dont hear a word about Skully,obviously partly because the media here talk theyre own up & also we dont get much info about TAC cup except scores & best players.With 100% certanty the Crows & Power would both take Trengove at 1 if they had that pick.Rate him very highly & he has been gathering 30plus possies every week playing in Sturts league side.Heres my picks then.1 take Skully,2 take Trengove & with our 3rd pick i believe that Matt Panos might still be around,over here theyre saying he will go in 2nd round.That would be perfect,2 elite mids then the leading goal kicker in u18 carnival for our 1st 3 picks

My wishes are exactly the same as yours re Trengove & Panos. I'd also wish for Colyer.

[dee-luded 2,958]

I love how some players reputation procede them at times.

John Butcher - while a talented prospect has a LONG way to go.

I think some people are overrating him on his performances at the Championships last year.

His TAC season has been up and down and he was by no means a standout in the Championships this year.

He will be drafted in the Top #10 this year on potential - but those talking him up as the next big thing at FF/CHF need to relax a little.

I'm concerned about his ability when the ball is on the deck, can he compete hard @ ground level to win the footy & then use it to teammates.

Also his ability to play other positions, versatility.

Personally myself I'd prefer to grab a tall forward 2nd Rnd.

[Guest JACKtheRIPPER]

I'm concerned about his ability when the ball is on the deck, can he compete hard @ ground level to win the footy & then use it to teammates.

Also his ability to play other positions, versatility.

Personally myself I'd prefer to grab a tall forward 2nd Rnd.

didnt we grab a tall forward in the last draft, watts his name, so from my understanding, what do need.

[dee-luded 2,958]

didnt we grab a tall forward in the last draft, watts his name, so from my understanding, what do need.

IMO it's important to have to tall forwards together on the forwardline, preferably rotating around & switching positions with one another. Ideally the 2 would have different strengths with both quick over the ground.

This is why I'm hoping that we'd get Panos, different enough to Watts I think to make trouble for opposition defences as they roamed the forward half.

[Dr Jekyl & Mr Hyde 0]

I'm concerned about his ability when the ball is on the deck, can he compete hard @ ground level to win the footy & then use it to teammates.

Also his ability to play other positions, versatility.

Personally myself I'd prefer to grab a tall forward 2nd Rnd.

His ability at ground level is fine, he is quite athletic and his agility is good.

My concern over Butcher is that over 2009 - while he's great in the air, his field kicking (and goal kicking) and disposal to teammates is very poor at times, he is prone to missing passes to leading targets from 30 metres away !! (if u want a good laugh, get a hold of the TAC Cup vision of Gippsland vs. Bendigo - listen to the absolute BAKE his coach gives him).

Another major concern is that he looks to be suffering from Mitch Clark syndrome we saw pre-draft 2005 (and NO im not talking about meningacoccal lol) just looks as if he doesn't care when he's out on the ground - I've lost count of the number of times I've seen his opponent run off him to see Butcher just watch on in the hope his team turns the ball over - and he's got no opponent on him.

He's got the ability and potential - but like Mitch Clark did in 2005 - he will slip down a bit in some peoples rankings because over the course of 2009 - I've not seen him put in a 4 quarter game of footy.

Needs to be schooled.

As I said in Post #79

I think there are certain areas where Butcher needs to be "schooled"

1. He needs to learn to PRESENT, PRESENT, PRESENT at all costs - like a Riewoldt.

There are times where I've seen him offer one lead, upon being ignored - he either just casually jogs or he remains motionless.

2. He needs to learn to that there is life beyond the forward half of the ground.

Essentially he needs to present more of an option down the wing or past the half forward line - even moving into defense to match up or offer a contested mark if need be.

3. He needs to learn to that aside from marking - KICKING is essential to the game.

Needs to become more consistent with his goal kicking AND his field kicking to teammates. If he's going to be trained and groomed into a CHF - then he will most likely be taking marks on the wing, and flanks, and down the ground. Therefore he needs to improve his kicking to be able to hit moving targets.

Edited August 11, 2009 by Dr Jekyl & Mr Hyde

[Its Miller time 6]

Must go best available which isn't butcher.

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sport/afl...7-19742,00.html

Not sure we worked that hard for the PP though.

[Don24 103]

Must go best available which isn't butcher.

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sport/afl...7-19742,00.html

Not sure we worked that hard for the PP though.

interesting article!

A young Nathan Buckley (Trengrove) and a young Judd (Scully) sounds very very exciting!! We already have Watts and Jurrah, forget Butcher!!

[hells bells 2,022]

interesting article!

A young Nathan Buckley (Trengrove) and a young Judd (Scully) sounds very very exciting!! We already have Watts and Jurrah, forget Butcher!!

You think it would be hard for them not to select Trengrove, it´s not very often you get the chance to take Picks 1 & 2, it would be a shame to get players rated by most experts as 1 and 5/6.

Best available thanks.

[dreamin' man 0]

M

Not sure we worked that hard for the PP though.

'HAVING worked so hard for a precious priority pic'

think there's pretty heavy sarcasm in that comment.

[Jarka 767]

So how many KPP prospects are 'complete players' when they're drafted into the system? Naitanui has absolutely no idea where to run in a game. That's a pretty big weakness you'd think. I reckon you're being too harsh on Butcher tbh. I'm not saying he's the 2nd best player in the draft at this stage. I'm just saying that he should be on our radar.

I'd like to see a bit more discussion about some of the other players. Everyone's on the Trengove bandwagon it seems, but there are other prospects that have good claims too...

I'm currently in the Scully/Trengove camp however I completely agree with you that we should walk towards the draft with an open mind.

The top 5 seem to be Scully, Trengove, Morabito, Butcher & Lucas with Martin, Rohan and Stevens as smokies, but the one who I've been impressed with the whole year has been Lucas from WA. Had a reasonably quiet u18's however this kid has serious talent and is putting in some very good performances at senior level in the WAFL. Tallish mid with excellent kicking skills and can go forward and kick goals. Got knocked around a fair bit early in the season against the bigger bodies but has bounced back well.

I'm not that overly excited about Morabito, sorry H. I don't have any hard evidence to back up my claims, just a feeling I get (mind you to put this into perspective the first time I saw Glen McGraph bowl I had the same feeling and stated that he'd never become a good test level bowler ).

Martin looks the goods, he's going to give great value to whoever picks him up. Rohan likes like a plug 'n play type and Stevens a hard nut.

I personally would be happy with Scully and one of Trengove, Butcher or Lucas but at the end of the day I haven't seen them enough to be set in concrete. Trengove, however, is extremely tempting given his recent performances.

Edit: Forgot to add, with the issue of Butcher's kicking. During the national u18's he was carrying a foot injury that clearly affected his kicking. He probably shouldn't have played but he didn't want to let his teammates down. There's nothing wrong with his kicking.

Edited August 11, 2009 by Jarka

[Scully The Tank Engine 0]

I'm currently in the Scully/Trengove camp however I completely agree with you that we should walk towards the draft with an open mind.

The top 5 seem to be Scully, Trengove, Morabito, Butcher & Lucas with Martin, Rohan and Stevens as smokies, but the one who I've been impressed with the whole year has been Lucas from WA. Had a reasonably quiet u18's however this kid has serious talent and is putting in some very good performances at senior level in the WAFL. Tallish mid with excellent kicking skills and can go forward and kick goals. Got knocked around a fair bit early in the season against the bigger bodies but has bounced back well.

I'm not that overly excited about Morabito, sorry H. I don't have any hard evidence to back up my claims, just a feeling I get (mind you to put this into perspective the first time I saw Glen McGraph bowl I had the same feeling and stated that he'd never become a good test level bowler ).

Martin looks the goods, he's going to give great value to whoever picks him up. Rohan likes like a plug 'n play type and Stevens a hard nut.

I personally would be happy with Scully and one of Trengove, Butcher or Lucas but at the end of the day I haven't seen them enough to be set in concrete. Trengove, however, is extremely tempting given his recent performances.

Edit: Forgot to add, with the issue of Butcher's kicking. During the national u18's he was carrying a foot injury that clearly affected his kicking. He probably shouldn't have played but he didn't want to let his teammates down. There's nothing wrong with his kicking.

Awesome, thanks!! :D

Has anyone else read Jon Ralph's article in the HS. today discussing the 'very' same things we've been debating the last few days, i.e. the dilemma of using pick 2 to pick a ready made gun midfielder over our needs (Trengove) vs picking a KPF who's probably not worthy of pick 2 atm but addresses a need (Butcher)??

Weird, huh??

[H_T 2,941]

Awesome, thanks!! :D

Has anyone else read Jon Ralph's article in the HS. today discussing the 'very' same things we've been debating the last few days, i.e. the dilemma of using pick 2 to pick a ready made gun midfielder over our needs (Trengove) vs picking a KPF who's probably not worthy of pick 2 atm but addresses a need (Butcher)??

Weird, huh??

Probably just browsed the site the last couple of days looking for something to write. You're not Jon are you??

[Scully The Tank Engine 0]

Probably just browsed the site the last couple of days looking for something to write. You're not Jon are you??

Yes I am, but please don't tell anyone. I'm actually on a highly classified, top secret 'reconassaince mission' to infiltrate the inner sanctum of the MFC...

Edited August 11, 2009 by Scully The Tank Engine

[Hannabal 4]

I'm not that overly excited about Morabito, sorry H. I don't have any hard evidence to back up my claims, just a feeling I get (mind you to put this into perspective the first time I saw Glen McGraph bowl I had the same feeling and stated that he'd never become a good test level bowler ).

Just a question; have you seen him play live ? It really does put a different perspective when you're at the game and closely watching someone. I'll often watch a replay after having been at the match and you miss the intangibles.

Anyway, here's a recent video. Watch all 9 minutes, but remember, you still can't quite get a feeling of how fast someone is, etc, just on video. He'll kick the odd floater, but he has X factor in spades and will become a Sam Kekovich time running monster. He's still only 17.

http://www.footballnation.com.au/draft-3/2...thony-morabito/

You may have to scroll down a bit.

That said, I'm slightly leaning to Trengove, but would be happy with either. And I'll probably go back and forth for the next few months.

[Dr Jekyl & Mr Hyde 0]

Ah good old Shifter Sheahan ...

I don't think I've ever heard him give any sort of negative feedback towards a draftee - and why would he? it's his job to get them recruited.

[Roost It 1,434]

IMO it's good there isn't a tall confusing the issue.

John Butcher?

[Scully The Tank Engine 0]

My view is that our NEED is two top quality mids and I'm not at all worried about our forwards, small or KP.

We are bereft in the midfield. We have some good honest toilers who would be lucky to crack a game with the better sides. We need two quality mids (perhaps three) so that Jones, McLean and Moloney can be backup mids not first liners. We need Grimes and Blease to step into the midfield and do well along with picks 1 and 2.

Our forwards are no problems. I think Morton will end up as a Reiwoldt type forward. He can run and work as hard, he's a better kick and not nearly as strong a mark but that will improve. Watts, Morton and Jurrah offer very strong and dangerous marking ability, Sylvia the strong bodied forward and Maric, Wona and Davey the clever small forwards. The key is perhaps Martin. If he can develop into the tall strong forward who can draw the ball deep forward, kick the odd goal and bring the ball to ground to provide quality crumbs to all our forwards (who are all very good below their knees) we are seriously dangerous. Martin is also my second relief ruckman therefore filling two roles and perhaps the most important development player on our list.

The other wild card is Garland and with Warnock, Frawley and Rivers he may not be needed down back and will be free to swing.

We know that tall forwards are very valuable as Roughead and Franklin proved. But we also know that teams have won flags without key forwards in the past but no team has won with anything other than a top quality midfield.

We need two mids and we should chose the best two available. IMO it's good there isn't a tall confusing the issue.

I've already sort of discussed my reasons for why I think we still need a KPF so I'm not going to go into that again. With the addition of Scully to the midfield mix, we are already starting to look formidable - Scully, Grimes, Sylvia, Blease, Strauss, Morton, (even Watts who could play a Pavlich/Goodes type midfield/forward role) are all, or are potential top liners.

Garland isn't a KPF, Martin will probably be a 'depth' player in our top 22 at best. We still need a KPF imo...

Sydney had a 'workman like' midfield and almost claimed back-to-back flags against a side that many believe had the best midfield in the game's history, because they functioned as a disciplined unit.

We need a high quality midfield to win a flag, but we also need an exceptional forward line to win one.

But by the same token, if our recruiters think Jack Trengove is an absolute standout, then we should pick him, but it would mean that we would have to say goodbye to the likes of Jones, McLean & Moloney because the midfield area is becoming cluttered. Don't forget, its likely we'll probably be able to add another few midfield types in future drafts prior to our flag window...

Its also unlikely we'll get our hands on a quality KP prospect at pick 18 in this draft, so that'll be 3 midfield types we're likely to pick in the top 20...

[Ryan Dee 140]

I'm starting to feel sorry for you 'Scully The Tank Engine' I think you have been through your reason's about a thousand times haha.