Emma Quayle's article on tanking

[beelzebub 23,253]

so you just leave out a couple of our best players?

Let me put this to you. It's R21 and Carlton are battling for a place in the 4 or bettter still, the 8. And Essendon and others are breathing down their necks. And we've got almost a full list to choose from[i accept several players are out for the season but they're not pivotal anyway] Wouldn't every Melbourne player, supporter, coach, official , to say nothing of our poor president, get the greatest lift if we could knock the Blues out of whatever spot they're hoping to achieve?And wouldn't the competition be buggered if Essendon and any other club wanting to get past Carlton, suspected that Melbourne were throwing the match?

Remember, it could happen to us next year or in 2011. The integrity of the competition IS bloody important

youre kidding arent you. You want to burn bright for a few measily moments and chuck away any chance for some compensation for the misery over the last years. Youre either incredibly selfish or worryingly short-sighted Im affraid.

The Intergity of the competition ??????????

[old55 23,047]

The integrity of the competition IS bloody important

Yep we can all feel good about holding up the integrity of the competition while Worsfold and Glass are holding up the 2013 premiership cup.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Sorry Rhino--Bizzell, Yze and White WERE played at Sandy for much of their last few games at Melbourne. I can't recall so much about Brown who was playing very good footy.

If Mc Lean is injured[and I understand he was close to our best v Pt Adelaide] yes, of course, I'd rest him

I checked the records and

White played the last nine rounds 14 to 22

Brown played the last nince rounds 14 to 22

Bizzell played Rounds 14,15 and 22.

Yze played his last game in Round 14.

For the record in R22 2007, MFC had Bode, Pickett, Ferguson and Ward in the side who were all off the list at year end.

[beelzebub 23,253]

Well according to Vlad there is no such thing as tanking, so no matter what we do (or dont ) it never happened and the integrity will still remain intact

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Yep we can all feel good about holding up the integrity of the competition while Worsfold and Glass are holding up the 2013 premiership cup.

Just as much as the integrity and good football culture behind the 2006 premiership.

And Barry Hall playing the 2005 GF and holding a premiership medal that year after a soft jumper punch on Hudghton.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

Leigh Matthews says you need every area in place to win a flag but he said if you dont have the quality of players on your list then the other areas will not cover the most important ingredient to success.

They already had a private deal with Judd who is partlially paid by Visy. They had worked out the sums and know they wanted Kruzer with PP but had to give a high 1st round pick plus Kennedy to get him. They tanked. When Ratten took over as coach they were in front in a number of games at half time and mysteriously there best players were rested for most of the 2nd half. And somehow they did not seem to tag TJ at any time during the whole of the R22 match.

Not sure what point you were making with the first part. Seemed to reinforce mine? Which would come as a shock.

As for "they tanked." You'll hear no argument from me if you were a blue. Of course that's what they did. But as we have ALL been through in the tanking threads, I believe the 22 played as every player always does, or attempts to do when they cross the white line. At 100% or more effort. It was a coaching move (very transparent) and the list management that got them in that position. We're talking about definition. You could say it's as "close" to tanking as clubs get. Is it morally reprehensible? I'd say yes, but I blame the AFL more than I do the blues. They took advantage of a system, and they did what they thought they needed to do to get better as a list. Expecting them to do otherwise is naive. In fact, WE were naive. I'm not sure who I'm more [censored] at actually, them for doing it, or us for not seeing it coming.

For my part tanking is when a player has the ball 40 out on no angle, and they're 2 points down at the final siren, and he handballs it into the ground and walks off with his team-mates. That's deliberate. The rest is well within the rules.

Except with that whole Judd deal having occurred previous to the trade. Not sure about all that, but I'm not up on all the trading rules etc etc.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

For my part tanking is when a player has the ball 40 out on no angle, and they're 2 points down at the final siren, and he handballs it into the ground and walks off with his team-mates. That's deliberate. The rest is well within the rules.

What about one metre out lying flat on your back trying to kick the ball back over your end for a goal? It was deliberate!!

Except with that whole Judd deal having occurred previous to the trade. Not sure about all that, but I'm not up on all the trading rules etc etc.

They needed the PP to allow them to give pick 3 to WCE as part payment for Judd. Their antics during the MFC game and others delivered Kruezer to them.

[rpfc 28,079]

The integrity of the competition IS bloody important

And so is the integrity of the Priority Pick system; this weekend will see our 50th loss since 2007, if we win 5 games this year we would be going out of our way to flout the AFL's equalisation methods to help a team as bad as us.

And I don't want that on my conscious, sir.

It's about the integrity of the system...

[beelzebub 23,253]

and here Lethals counter to Emma

Tanking, Long-term thinking's ok

not a bad perspective

[H_T 3,042]

and here Lethals counter to Emma

Tanking, Long-term thinking's ok

not a bad perspective

From the article: -

Thanks BB.

"If coaches of bottom teams manipulate their teams for long term gain in the last game or two and that is regarded as tanking, then so be it."

This from Lethal Leigh, arguably one of the games greatest players, if not the greatest.

Those who enjoy seeing the kids play for the Dees and want them to continue to do their best and try to win, should not fear then.

Edited July 22, 2009 by High Tower

[donny williams no 25 0]

youre kidding arent you. You want to burn bright for a few measily moments and chuck away any chance for some compensation for the misery over the last years. Youre either incredibly selfish or worryingly short-sighted Im affraid.

The Intergity of the competition ??????????

Neither selfish! nor short-sighted.

Let me assure you of this; if the scenario developed and Melbourne had the opportunity to put the Blues out of the finals 90% of supporters and ALL players officials, coaches and presidents would want us to do everything in our power--pick the best available team and give it our absolute best shot--to do so.

And if we succeeded, the improved profile of the club would help immensely next year. I don't think you stop to consider that ours is a year-to-year existence. One more bad year financially and you can look forward to our home games at Carrara ,West Sydney [great] or Launceston

[beelzebub 23,253]

Neither selfish! nor short-sighted.

Let me assure you of this; if the scenario developed and Melbourne had the opportunity to put the Blues out of the finals 90% of supporters and ALL players officials, coaches and presidents would want us to do everything in our power--pick the best available team and give it our absolute best shot--to do so.

And if we succeeded, the improved profile of the club would help immensely next year. I don't think you stop to consider that ours is a year-to-year existence. One more bad year financially and you can look forward to our home games at Carrara ,West Sydney [great] or Launceston

well youre entitled to your view, no probs.

Mine's entirely diferent. Beating Carlton is irrelevant in the grand schemeThere are battles...and there are wars. and there are strategems to fight both. Its very important to know the difference. Some do, some dont..I'll leave it at that

[donny williams no 25 0]

I checked the records and

White played the last nine rounds 14 to 22

Brown played the last nince rounds 14 to 22

Bizzell played Rounds 14,15 and 22.

Yze played his last game in Round 14.

For the record in R22 2007, MFC had Bode, Pickett, Ferguson and Ward in the side who were all off the list at year end.

Really? I could have sworn that Yze played the last match as a farewell. Didn't Holland do likewise?And I recall we knew it was Pickett's last also. Nothing wrong with playing retirees in the last match as a gesture--I don't treat that as tanking. Bode, Ward and Ferguson were still hoping. Of course, I accept what you say about White and Brown.

[beelzebub 23,253]

no harm in playing the vets as a farewell in last game this year either... cant do the percentage anyharm ( I know..just a cynical ol' bastard !! )

[H_T 3,042]

no harm in playing the vets as a farewell in last game this year either... cant do the percentage anyharm ( I know..just a cynical ol' bastard !! )

Percentage will be irrelevant BB. Who are the vets who are playing their last game?

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Really? I could have sworn that Yze played the last match as a farewell. Didn't Holland do likewise?And I recall we knew it was Pickett's last also. Nothing wrong with playing retirees in the last match as a gesture--I don't treat that as tanking. Bode, Ward and Ferguson were still hoping. Of course, I accept what you say about White and Brown.

Agree on Yze.

Holland was not there either. I dont think Holland played much in his final year.

In Pickett's case there was everything wrong with given him a final game (and in fact he played the last couple to get 200). He had done little for the Club and had the selfishness and lack of team spirit to ring the Club on the morning of a game where he was emergency stating he was too ill to attend. He was hungover and got suspended. Should never have played again after. His form was ordinary, very ordinary in his last game. Bode, Ward and Ferg were dreaming if they thought they would get new contracts.

[beelzebub 23,253]

Percentage will be irrelevant BB. Who are the vets who are playing their last game?

au contraire mon ami... I suspect bottom place may well come down to percentage.

Vets.. Robbo, Wheatley, Wheels & Jnr

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Neither selfish! nor short-sighted.

Both in an extreme way.

Let me assure you of this; if the scenario developed and Melbourne had the opportunity to put the Blues out of the finals 90% of supporters and ALL players officials, coaches and presidents would want us to do everything in our power--pick the best available team and give it our absolute best shot--to do so.

What the supporters would think has no bearing on team selection or coaching strategies for that week.

If any football department official or Board member were to think that way, they should be sacked or resigned. I want the Board to deliver a flag. Its naive small mindedness that delivers one week of joy for some and 10 years of lost opportunity.

And if we succeeded, the improved profile of the club would help immensely next year. I don't think you stop to consider that ours is a year-to-year existence. One more bad year financially and you can look forward to our home games at Carrara ,West Sydney [great] or Launceston

We would be a laughing stock of the AFL. We have beaten Carlton again and lost access to a better player through the PP. We have learned nothing from two years ago. We clearly have no blue print being put in place to get the side to be a power in the AFL again. We would have no interest to sponsors who will rightly see us as a Club with no serious intent to be truly successful.

By the way, ours is not a year to year existence. The AFL needs MFC to make up the compliment of team to deliver TV rights of 8 games per round for 22 rounds per year. The reason GC and WS are coming into the competition is to increase penetration of AFL in non AFL states and increase weekly content of AFL to 9 games for FTA and cable TV thereby pushing up the value of TV rights

For the record unless we pull a big sponsorship out of the bag next year and reduce the debt to zero we will struggle again to break even. So its almost a given next year will be tough financially. And putting Carlton out of the finals will be as memorable as R 22 2007.

And in years to come we can also watch Scully dominate in the AFL..... in Freo colours and say wasn't it good all those years ago when we beat Carlton to put them out of the finals?

Its no wonder we have had no real success in 45 years.

[H_T 3,042]

au contraire mon ami... I suspect bottom place may well come down to percentage.

Vets.. Robbo, Wheatley, Wheels & Jnr

If we finish on 3 or 4 wins, I couldn't care less about the percentage. What will be will be.

[beelzebub 23,253]

If we finish on 3 or 4 wins, I couldn't care less about the percentage. What will be will be.

should it happen that Freo beat West Coast, Richmond beat West Coast and we beat Freo and lose to Richmond then its quite possible that WCE, Freo and Melb will all be on 16 points..

Percentage will be VERY important in determining PP's and normal draft selection order

[H_T 3,042]

If we finish on 3 or 4 wins, I couldn't care less about the percentage. What will be will be.

should it happen that Freo beat West Coast, Richmond beat West Coast and we beat Freo and lose to Richmond then its quite possible that WCE, Freo and Melb will all be on 16 points..

Percentage will be VERY important in determining PP's and normal draft selection order

West Coast is over 13% more than Melb. If Melbourne finish on 16 points they will have qualified for the priority pick.

Like I said....

[Einstein 1]

Really? I could have sworn that Yze played the last match as a farewell. Didn't Holland do likewise?

In 2008,

Yze played in rounds 1, 10, 11, 12, 21 and 22.

Holland played in rounds 9 and 22.

White played in rounds 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 10, 11, 12, 13, 19, 21 and 22.

So yeah, both Yze and Holland played in Round 22.

[beelzebub 23,253]

West Coast is over 13% more than Melb. If Melbourne finish on 16 points they will have qualified for the priority pick.

Like I said....

a lot can change in 6 rounds... hope your confidence is warranted

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

In 2008,

Yze played in rounds 1, 10, 11, 12, 21 and 22.

Holland played in rounds 9 and 22.

White played in rounds 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 10, 11, 12, 13, 19, 21 and 22.

So yeah, both Yze and Holland played in Round 22.

Thanks, what's your source? Footywire.com?

Your figures seem a truer reflection of things.

I checked the match stats off http://stats.rleague.com/afl/seas/2007.html Wont do that again.

And they would seem to be wrong.

[old55 23,047]

Let me assure you of this; if the scenario developed and Melbourne had the opportunity to put the Blues out of the finals 90% of supporters and ALL players officials, coaches and presidents would want us to do everything in our power--pick the best available team and give it our absolute best shot--to do so.

So you'd rather see Carlton out of the 2009 finals than Tom Scully in a Melbourne jumper for 12 years.

Your argument does not persuade me at all.

I am much less motivated by causing another team's failure than by enhancing our team's long term success.