After all the frustration of last night, I was reflecting about Steph Martin. Here is a bloke who played KPB, KPF, Ruck and also was on Monfries at one stage (I think). I don't think I've seen a player used as much across so many roles in one game and I though the did bloody well. Given his realtive youth, inexperience (with footy in general and at AFL level in particular) and the speed of his improvements across the last two years, he may well develop into one of our most important players.

Yet he gets dropped after one bad game and players like Whelan, Robertson and Bruce, who do absolutely nothing for the development and leadership of our team, get regained in the team.

After all the frustration of last night, I was reflecting about Steph Martin. Here is a bloke who played KPB, KPF, Ruck and also was on Monfries at one stage (I think). I don't think I've seen a player used as much across so many roles in one game and I though the did bloody well. Given his realtive youth, inexperience (with footy in general and at AFL level in particular) and the speed of his improvements across the last two years, he may well develop into one of our most important players.

Couldn't agree anymore. You can tell that he doesn't have all the skills yet but the intent is there. I think he sees the game very well which is a wonderful platform to work from. Hopefully a 200 game champion. Most importantly he plays with a lot of heart. Good on you Steph, he and Jurrah/Watts the only highlights for me last night.

I thought Stef was very good in the ruck last night, however I thought his kicking let him down at times, especially under pressure.

stef not steph

Really liked Martin last night. One of only a few positives. I still want him to settle into one role that he can concentrate on learning, but Connolly said last night that the aim with Martin is to use his ability to develop him into a utility that can play both ends of the ground.

Was very impressive, though don't mention him on Monfries - it was against him who he didn't touch Mcveigh's shot for goal when it should've been pretty easy.

But all in all, a very solid game from someone who seems to be learning every position on the ground. Natural athlete for sure.

He is an enigma, at times I feel like I want to put number 34 on my jumper, but i also think that you cannot afford to carry players who can't kick. Can you teach yourself how to kick? I'm not so sure. Worth persisting with for now at least, would love to see him develop into a good player.

I said it in another thread, I think this guy will turn out to be one of the best recruiting moves of the decade. I don't think anybody saw him coming, but he's showing us every week why he was picked up. He will be a champion no matter what position he ends up playing.

His kicking was a bit iffy at times, but then he nailed that goal in the last, so he can kick.

The guy sitting behind me got stuck into him all game, thinking he was completely rubbish (and mixed him up with PJ half the time as well), until his last quarter. Amusing stuff

Love him as a leading forward. He really is a very very intelligent player (and person), understands what is required in each position and never makes the same mistake twice. He will get caught on the lead once in a game, and will immediately change his tactics. You can't teach that sort natural ability to understand what is happening in a game. For someone with such a fundamental lack of experience at all levels, his ability to quickly adapt to different roles is superb.

His ruckwork was pretty good too, for someone who has rucked for about 8 minutes total at AFL level. Mind you his opponent wasn't much chop.

Love him as a leading forward. He really is a very very intelligent player (and person), understands what is required in each position and never makes the same mistake twice. He will get caught on the lead once in a game, and will immediately change his tactics. You can't teach that sort natural ability to understand what is happening in a game. For someone with such a fundamental lack of experience at all levels, his ability to quickly adapt to different roles is superb.

This, coupled with his agility, is what makes Martin such a tantalisting prospect. He did much better forward last night than he had done previously. Very pleasing.

His ruckwork was pretty good too, for someone who has rucked for about 8 minutes total at AFL level. Mind you his opponent wasn't much chop.

No it wasn't. It was pretty poor. If Jamar's fit this week, we can concentrate on Martin playing as a forward (or possibly as a defender if Warnock's not right, since we have Brisbane next).

No it wasn't. It was pretty poor. If Jamar's fit this week, we can concentrate on Martin playing as a forward (or possibly as a defender if Warnock's not right, since we have Brisbane next).

Haven't watched the replay, so happy to be corrected, but from where I was sitting (986 rows back), he seemed fairly competitive in the ruck. Did a couple of nice things to get the ball to our advantage.

To be honest I am not a fan of him as a ruckman, but I can certainly see the value of developing him as one, so he can take the secondary ruck role, without being your traditional useless secondary ruckman who just clogs up your team.

It took him 10 weeks to learn how to be a defender, 3 weeks to learn how to be a forward... give him one more week and he'll be in contention for an AA ruck position

Yet he gets dropped after one bad game and players like Whelan, Robertson and Bruce, who do absolutely nothing for the development and leadership of our team, get regained in the team.

Agree completely. Robbo will certainly go at the end of the year. Hopeless. Sick of him flapping around. Can't take a mark without the use of his chest, and the least you would expect from him would be to show leadership qualities by chasing and tackling. Same goes to Bruce. For a player that had so many possessions and Super Coach points last night, he barely influenced the game at all bar an assist and a goal. Martin, Cheney and Bennell need to stay for experience and learning as does Stef, but those so called leaders need a run in the two's as Miller did.

Haven't watched the replay, so happy to be corrected, but from where I was sitting (986 rows back), he seemed fairly competitive in the ruck. Did a couple of nice things to get the ball to our advantage.

To be honest I am not a fan of him as a ruckman, but I can certainly see the value of developing him as one, so he can take the secondary ruck role, without being your traditional useless secondary ruckman who just clogs up your team.

It took him 10 weeks to learn how to be a defender, 3 weeks to learn how to be a forward... give him one more week and he'll be in contention for an AA ruck position

Well, I was judging him based on a couple of things I saw, where he seemed to be outpositioned or he leapt too early. I thought that he looked like he was basing it all on jumping. But I'll accept that it'll only take one mistake from him to make me say he shouldn't play ruck. I just think it's such a waste of talent to ruck him.

though don't mention him on Monfries - it was against him who he didn't touch Mcveigh's shot for goal when it should've been pretty easy.

Don't mention the war, hey?

I was quite close to that and it was a pretty disappointing effort.

i also think that you cannot afford to carry players who can't kick. Can you teach yourself how to kick? I'm not so sure. Worth persisting with for now at least, would love to see him develop into a good player.

I'm with you on both points.

I do like Martin, but there's a big question mark over his kicking.

I actually thought his kicking was better when he first came onto the scene, but he seems to have lost confidence - in a thread a few weeks back I mentioned his first and second options were to give-off.

There's plenty to like about Martin but his kicking was very poor on occassion and it is something that needs to be rectified if he's going to be a success.

Well, I was judging him based on a couple of things I saw, where he seemed to be outpositioned or he leapt too early. I thought that he looked like he was basing it all on jumping. But I'll accept that it'll only take one mistake from him to make me say he shouldn't play ruck. I just think it's such a waste of talent to ruck him.

He probably was with the amount he's rucked, but I think Jaded possibly saw the same potential to learn & develop the potential to be able to help in the ruck when called upon.

Yet he gets dropped after one bad game and players like Whelan, Robertson and Bruce, who do absolutely nothing for the development and leadership of our team, get regained in the team.

Rivers is the problem how long can a player do nothing week in week out and stay in the side. He should be doing what Fletcher does, Rivers has hardly got over 10 touches this season. Hopefully when Warnock comes back he will be dropped.

Yeah, Stef's (thanks Freak - better not be wrong!) kicking is a liability - his flexibility betwen roles is his strength. He is hard to match up on when he goes forward. He has an annoying pace/height/body positioning ability that will work forward or back (and maybe in the ruck). nail the disposal (he onyl need to be steady and reliably steady) and that will be enough to complement (rather than undermine) his strengths.

Rivers is the problem how long can a player do nothing week in week out and stay in the side. He should be doing what Fletcher does, Rivers has hardly got over 10 touches this season. Hopefully when Warnock comes back he will be dropped.

I watched the replay and I don't get where the angst towards Rivers is coming from.

He is no longer the playmaker, so his stat counts are low (and since when do defenders get marked on stats??). He did get outbodied by Lucas a couple of times, but other than that he got the job done. Lucas hardly dominated, and usually he does. Rivers spoiled well, took some marks and kicked on target.

In the absence of Warnock, he was forced to play on someone bigger and stronger than him, and did OK.

After 3 years out of the game I think we need to cut him some slack. Lets hope he can get through the rest of the season unscathed and actually do a full pre-season.

Lucas hardly dominated, and usually he does. Rivers spoiled well, took some marks and kicked on target.

Lucas averages less goals a game against only St Kilda, he hardly dominates against us and should/will retire at the end of the season if not earlier.

Rivers is the problem how long can a player do nothing week in week out and stay in the side. He should be doing what Fletcher does, Rivers has hardly got over 10 touches this season. Hopefully when Warnock comes back he will be dropped.

Rivers got his Rising Star playing as a third tall who can leave his man. Yesterday there was no Warnock, no Garland, and with Frawley as the main talls. WHen Garland and Warnock get back then we will be able to see whether he has really lost it or not.

Rivers got his Rising Star playing as a third tall who can leave his man. Yesterday there was no Warnock, no Garland, and with Frawley as the main talls. WHen Garland and Warnock get back then we will be able to see whether he has really lost it or not.

This is also Rivers first season back after writing off a couple so he was always going to be rusty. The most important thing is that he's back playing, he doesn't have to dominate this year, let him gradually get his confidence back.

I still want him to settle into one role that he can concentrate on learning, but Connolly said last night that the aim with Martin is to use his ability to develop him into a utility that can play both ends of the ground.

Yes. I heard Connolly say they're not sure where to play him back or forward just yet.

Rivers is the problem .....

Wrong thread.

stef not steph

People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones...

Your spelling isn't too crash hot either mate.

Really liked Martin last night. One of only a few positives. I still want him to settle into one role that he can concentrate on learning, but Connolly said last night that the aim with Martin is to use his ability to develop him into a utility that can play both ends of the ground.

Hmm sounds like a similar plan our former coach had with one Brad Miller - that worked out well didn't it?

Give him a position and let him own it, we already know he has what it takes to play back if he's not required there then leave him as a forward so the bloke can learn the trade, chopping and changing positions 4-8 times a game won't help his development IMO.