Still on Richmond List - Oakley Nicholls, Kayne Pettifer, Angus Graham, Jay Schulz, Cleve Hughes, I could go on ...

Recruited - Tom Hislop (ess), Adam Thomson (port), and Ben Cousins.

Was it a similar story at Melbourne? Ryan Ferguson, Simon Godfrey, Daniel Ward, Luke Williams etc.

Recruited - Gary Moorcroft, Byron Pickett, a heap of others, the list would be too long

Don't get me wrong, I'm not having a go at the players named here, if i were offered another contract I'd take it too. However, I'm very glad we have a fresh new approach, new recruitment, new coach, new list management.

The similarity in approach to list management though both at richmond and melbourne are incredible in Cameron's time.

I've been saying to colleagues, look I'm a Melbourne supporter and we're struggling, but thank god I'm not a Richmond supporter. at least our mistakes come from bartram, or jones, or frawley, not from Simmonds, Bowden or N.Brown.

Carn the dees, the new board and the new coaching staff. You're all doing a terrific job.

Good call. Couple that with Daniher who also had no long term vision or list management skills and its not surprising we went from the best Victorian team in 2006 to a laughing stock in 2008.

Its good to see.

not even 24hrs into the season and the knives are being stuck into the toig's

I'm somewhat uneasy about trashing Richmond and Cameron.

Their senior players didn't turn up on the night and we're having a go at the bloke in charge of recruitment?

It' all a good laugh until we get smashed in Rd 4.

Make no mistake Dees fans, we are every bit the favorite to finish 16th.

And until a good showing on Sunday (hopefully), we have nothing to hang our hats on.

Man I feel for Matthew Richardson. God he's a champ, and you can see how much he loves his team.

I have raised CAC on here early last year for what I thought was some poor recruiting or maybe more of the fact people see him as some kind of supserstar recruiter yet the players he picked, in my mind, don't back that up. YET it is a touch early to jump on CAC just yet, how long has he been there for? This his 2nd recruiting class?

at least our mistakes come from bartram, or jones, or frawley, not from Simmonds, Bowden or N.Brown.

Carn the dees, the new board and the new coaching staff. You're all doing a terrific job.

How exactly are Simmonds, Bowden and N. Brown mistakes?

How exactly are Simmonds, Bowden and N. Brown mistakes?

......... he picked Simmo when he was working for MFC???

I'm somewhat uneasy about trashing Richmond and Cameron.

Their senior players didn't turn up on the night and we're having a go at the bloke in charge of recruitment?

It' all a good laugh until we get smashed in Rd 4.

Make no mistake Dees fans, we are every bit the favorite to finish 16th.

And until a good showing on Sunday (hopefully), we have nothing to hang our hats on.

i agree, lets dot put the cart before the horse. i was excited this time last year, and look what happened. As Malthose said the ox is slow but the earth is patient..

In fairness Moorcroft and Pickett were both premiership players (if that counts for anything)

Make no mistake Dees fans, we are every bit the favorite to finish 16th.

Have a quick read down at bomber blitz. Already good for a few laughs! They are turning on themselves, knights and are predicting that they are sure to finish 16th. Brightens up a friday arvo!

And this is after they have been rubbishing the MFC!

http://www.bomberblitz.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=47684

Its good to see Arron Davey is getting plenty of game time over the weekend

I think you're confusing list management with recruitement. The coach has the final say on the former, as well as most trades.

Washed up hacks being allowed to hang around well past their use by dates is the doing of Daniher and Wallace.

I dont think its a fair or relevant comparison,

All the players you mentioned eg Oakley Nicholls, Kayne Pettifer, Angus Graham, Jay Schulz, Cleve Hughes

Cameron had nothing to do with their recruitment or whether they stayed on the list after last season. Cameron is there to recruit via the drafts and one game into the season its way to early to judge how he went there. Cousins i think was a good selection for them, but again not really his call i wouldnt have thought. Thomson and Hislop they gave up nothing to get, Hislop was rookied and cannot be comapred to Byron or Morecroft who were older players taking up senior spots on the list.

I dont see the need to have a go at CAC especially with such flawed evidence.....

In fairness Moorcroft and Pickett were both premiership players (if that counts for anything)

It doesn't.

......... he picked Simmo when he was working for MFC???

Pretty good mistake. The guy has played for over 10 years 181 games and 125 goals and carried the ruck at 3 clubs.

Pretty good mistake. The guy has played for over 10 years 181 games and 125 goals and carried the ruck at 3 clubs.

Having said that he was pretty bad last night. Dropped a few sitters, missed easy targets. Then again, the whole team was rubbish.

Pretty good mistake. The guy has played for over 10 years 181 games and 125 goals and carried the ruck at 3 clubs.

Exactly.

Given the choice, I'd have Simmonds on our list over Meesen and Jamar.

He might be at the end of his career, but he can actually ruck and have an impact around the ground.

Snake > half of Melbourne's ruck stocks

Sad but true.

I dont think its a fair or relevant comparison,

All the players you mentioned eg Oakley Nicholls, Kayne Pettifer, Angus Graham, Jay Schulz, Cleve Hughes

Cameron had nothing to do with their recruitment or whether they stayed on the list after last season. Cameron is there to recruit via the drafts and one game into the season its way to early to judge how he went there. Cousins i think was a good selection for them, but again not really his call i wouldnt have thought. Thomson and Hislop they gave up nothing to get, Hislop was rookied and cannot be comapred to Byron or Morecroft who were older players taking up senior spots on the list.

I dont see the need to have a go at CAC especially with such flawed evidence.....

Correct, he didnt recruit, all the more reason to cut them. They are going nowhere doing nothing, why keep them on the list, he kept players on melbourne's list for years too long. Hoping they'd come good, whilst Hawks made tough calls on players like Steven Greene, Nathan Thompson, Jonathon Hay, Jade Rawlings etc.

So Cameron, despite being director of football/recruiting and list management, could make no calls on any of the players?? Thomson was a trade with Port, Hislop was taken in the draft so it cost htat draft pick, in a similar vein to Moorcroft. Moorcroft and Hislop can be compared on the results they achieved for the club, still early with Hislop but why would Essendon discard a good player with a good attitude.

Why bother?

How exactly are Simmonds, Bowden and N. Brown mistakes?

regarding mistakes

What i was saying is that in 2008 when we were crap, the players making errors during the game were our young blokes, who could learn and improve, for Richmond the players making mistakes last night were their veterans, Simmonds (dropped about 4 marks), Bowden (had very little impact and dropped a sitter int eh forward pocket) and N.Brown (applying absolutely no pressure throughout the whole game when his team didnt have the ball), players that cant really improve, and are limited in how much better they can get.

nothing about them being mistakes,

but while im on it, yeah Cameron did recruit Simmonds and a great choice, however he then traded him and in a 3 way trade we got Craig Ellis. So yeah, thanks for reinforcing my point further. Trading players to suit other clubs.

The similarity in approach to list management though both at richmond and melbourne are incredible in Cameron's time.

I've been saying to colleagues, look I'm a Melbourne supporter and we're struggling, but thank god I'm not a Richmond supporter. at least our mistakes come from bartram, or jones, or frawley, not from Simmonds, Bowden or N.Brown.

Did your colleagues smile nod and walk away quietly?

Its a pity that the similarity is miscast when Cameron has only been at Richmond for 18 months. Most of the Richmond errors you gloat about occurred under Greg Miller. He has gone. The next could be Wallace. But its Round 1 and its a long season. Putting Wallace to the sword may be pre mature despite the cards getting stacked against him.

However, I struggle to see what MFC have achieved on the field at this point. Alot of people dining out on Richmond's disaster are going to look rather stupid if we dont put up a better showing than them and beat them in Round 4.

But as I have said elsewhere there player list is a product of poor recruitment and retention over a number of years. When there experienced half dozen hang the boots up. There is a big gap to the next level.

I'm somewhat uneasy about trashing Richmond and Cameron.

.......

And until a good showing on Sunday (hopefully), we have nothing to hang our hats on.

Agree.

In fairness Moorcroft and Pickett were both premiership players (if that counts for anything)

It counts for zip.

So was Shannon Motlop.

Pretty good mistake. The guy has played for over 10 years 181 games and 125 goals and carried the ruck at 3 clubs.

Exactly. He has been a capable ruckman over the distance. Richmond lose him and they are in a terrible mess

Exactly.

Given the choice, I'd have Simmonds on our list over Meesen and Jamar.

He might be at the end of his career, but he can actually ruck and have an impact around the ground.

Snake > half of Melbourne's ruck stocks

Until Spencer shows something in the AFL, Simmonds is currently better than all our ruck stocks. But its a dilemna for the Tigers as he reaches his twilight.

Alot of people dining out on Richmond's disaster are going to look rather stupid if we dont put up a better showing than them and beat them in Round 4.

Spot on.

Spot on.

not sure i was gloating at all. my point is im glad he's not our problem any more. no where did i say we're going to beat them, or win a premiership, or say we have the answers, i do agree with what melbourne are trying to do though.

also the points i queried are the decisions he did have control over, for instance, he could have cut an additional 4 players. pettifer and oakley nicholls seriously those two are no brainers.

also the recruits that he got this year are comparable to what he did at melbourne recruiting delisted players from other clubs.

that's the problem with these forums, you say A, and others say you B, C, D, E and F.

read the original post people.

most clubs cut their lists very hard this year, due to Gold Coast coming in, Richmond chose not to.

It will be very interesting how Cameron's tenure is remembered. It's been done to death in a few threads, but will be worth revisiting at some point.

What gun player has been drafted by Melbourne this decade ? The best has been Scott Thompson, and he plays for another club and lacks elite kicking skills. Unfortunately luck does play a part in drafting. Some years are simply better than others, and there's a fair case to mount that most of the players picked up after CAC's picks haven't been great, but the facts remain he hasn't brought much quality to the club. McLean's the best, but in my view he's not much better than good/ordinary.

Morton, Maric and Grimes potentially look good, but they bloody well need to be.

I've critized CAC and I've also defended him, but his record is much like most of our players - ordinary - not withstanding that I reckon he didn't have a lot of luck. But that's another thread.

It will be very interesting how Cameron's tenure is remembered. It's been done to death in a few threads, but will be worth revisiting at some point.

What gun player has been drafted by Melbourne this decade ? The best has been Scott Thompson, and he plays for another club and lacks elite kicking skills. Unfortunately luck does play a part in drafting. Some years are simply better than others, and there's a fair case to mount that most of the players picked up after CAC's picks haven't been great, but the facts remain he hasn't brought much quality to the club. McLean's the best, but in my view he's not much better than good/ordinary.

Morton, Maric and Grimes potentially look good, but they bloody well need to be.

I've critized CAC and I've also defended him, but his record is much like most of our players - ordinary - not withstanding that I reckon he didn't have a lot of luck. But that's another thread.

His best pick will be Colin Garland.

Melbourne have not jumped out and said we are going to make the finals, im not sure the coach has even said we will win any games. Baily said he wants us to be competitive. Whereas ( and im pretty sure ) the tigers have said that they want finals. Nothing wrong with this from both sides, but the tigers have more to lose if they lose to us then we do.

So i say slag them as much as we want, lets make the rnd 4 match worth something. PRIDE vs PRIDE

and BTW is CC classed as a good recruiter? he was avg at best for us i feel.