Freak I didn't think Grimes's kicking was all that bad whilst not elite like your man Hodge (whose kicks are?) there certainly nothing to be extremely concerned about. I suppose I'm comparing him to the likes of Jones, Frawley and Bartram.

missing the point. its not neccessarily about hitting the target. Both of those players hesitate quite a bit...a reason for this is because they see an option, realise they don't have the skills to kick it to the target so they settle for the easy option out of defence.

when a 18 yr old stringbean has got 90kg men running at him naturally hes going to hesitate,they had the skills to pull it off in the TAC comp,so when there confidence and bodys grow so will there accuracy,its all about awareness to, there just not used to the speed of an AFL game yet.

to compare grimes to mclean is just silly. mcleans kicking is elite, grimes' is not and never will be. todays game you need a good kick..and lenny hayes' is a great kick too. the best kicks in the league like hodge, dew, pendlebury, pavlich, gilbee, malceski, drummond etc all have good looking actions(most good kicks in the league are left footed too but thats another story). once a bad action, always a bad action. its why matthew richardson has never got better at kicking. Sadly Jones, Frawley, Grimes, Bate, Bartram and Morton are not going to have any rapid improvements in their disposals, as history suggests from players with bad kicking actions.

Adem Yze was a beautiful kick at the Height of his career-That Final against Adelaide in 2002.

when a 18 yr old stringbean has got 90kg men running at him naturally hes going to hesitate,they had the skills to pull it off in the TAC comp,so when there confidence and bodys grow so will there accuracy,its all about awareness to, there just not used to the speed of an AFL game yet.

how old are you jacktheripper. i already said that frawley, jones and bate haven't improved their kicking all that much depiste being in the afl system a couple of years. there goes ur theory. get with the program.

Question is: Who has an awkward kicking action yet is classified as an elite kick in the competition? If you can name 1 player in the league then i'll pay it..but simple thing is. if you dont have a good kicking action, you will never get into that elite category.

Robbo is a good example of a rubbish kick coming good.

Exactly.

Some of the bumph masquerading on this thread as insight is rather self serving.

another 'i told you so' from the freak. cant wait to be proven wrong.

You have been Freak often. Now back to your one hand typing.

a long term injury won't change ur kicking action. If Grimes' kicking was a highlight for you than you are easily pleased. Players I consider could kicks Hodge, Dew, Josh Hunt, Gilbee, Didak, Goddard, Drummond, Pavlich, S.Burgoyne, Malceski, J.Nash, Clinton Young, Richard Douglas, Dal Santo. Sure Grimes can find the footy, but at the end of the day, everyone on this site would have hit the targets that Grimes did on Saturday. What has been impressive with Girmes is his ball finding ability and his overhead marking. But i'm alot more excited about Strauss, someone that can kick.

I don't necessarily disagree with you, but I take it you've not read about Grimes' back injury of last year.

It apparently was caused by his running style which as part of the his rehab he has had to drastically change over the last 12 months or less.

I'd say that having to learn to change your gait would affect your kicking style greatly.

And i'd say he is still getting used to it.

My point is, this long term injury would have almost definitely affected his kicking style. Having said that, I don't think it either proves or disproves either side of the 'Grimes is a poor kick' argument.

missing the point. its not neccessarily about hitting the target. Both of those players hesitate quite a bit...a reason for this is because they see an option, realise they don't have the skills to kick it to the target so they settle for the easy option out of defence.

So lets get this right. You have selected a group of players who in your opinion have poor kicking actions. A couple of these are second year players, but still you have assessed thier kicking action as the reason for them not hitting targets.

Not only that you are trying to convince us that you know what is going on in the palyers' minds when they are kicking the ball.

Biomechanics expert and reader of minds. You are quite an impressive individual.

I agree with Freak.

Bate, Frawley, Grimes and Jones all have limited or ugly kicking actions. They are not necessarily bad kicks but their actions restrict how good they can be.

It's a like a golf swing, some people have terrible looking swings but use it to the best of their ability, for example they may play off 10. But if they want to play off 5 the only way they can do this is by changing their swing.

thanks cb! what he said. when in doubt go the golf swing analogy. right on the money

I agree with Freak.

Bate, Frawley, Grimes and Jones all have limited or ugly kicking actions. They are not necessarily bad kicks but their actions restrict how good they can be.

It's a like a golf swing, some people have terrible looking swings but use it to the best of their ability, for example they may play off 10. But if they want to play off 5 the only way they can do this is by changing their swing.

This is the key phrase.

I wholeheartedly agree.

how old are you jacktheripper. i already said that frawley, jones and bate haven't improved their kicking all that much depiste being in the afl system a couple of years. there goes ur theory. get with the program.

Question is: Who has an awkward kicking action yet is classified as an elite kick in the competition? If you can name 1 player in the league then i'll pay it..but simple thing is. if you dont have a good kicking action, you will never get into that elite category.

I'm not sure who the panel of judges are that decide who is an elite kick, but I'd rate Brendan Lade's foot disposal and kicking for goal as elite.

But I agree with some of your sentiments Freak. Many on this site are blinkered when it comes to our young players. I said last season that Morton's kicking skills are flawed, and got howled down.

I'm not sure who the panel of judges are that decide who is an elite kick, but I'd rate Brendan Lade's foot disposal and kicking for goal as elite.

But I agree with some of your sentiments Freak. Many on this site are blinkered when it comes to our young players. I said last season that Morton's kicking skills are flawed, and got howled down.

The thing I find hard about Morton's kicking is that I think he will get better with experience - i put his kicking problems down to a lack of judgement as he comes to learn the AFL game.

I'd probably take on board what you have to say if I didn't also keep hearing the 'expert recruiters' talk about what a magnificent kick he is.

Judge him in 2 years' time.

how old are you jacktheripper. i already said that frawley, jones and bate haven't improved their kicking all that much depiste being in the afl system a couple of years. there goes ur theory. get with the program.

Question is: Who has an awkward kicking action yet is classified as an elite kick in the competition? If you can name 1 player in the league then i'll pay it..but simple thing is. if you dont have a good kicking action, you will never get into that elite category.

im not saying hes elite, but warwick capper had the worst style ever,he kicked 100goals in a season, greg williams couldnt kick over a jam tin and he won 2 brownlows, and he was elite,for to guys that have played barely any AFL footy i think your predictions are a bit cynical.but i respect your opinion. B)

yeh alot of ppl here do have the blinkers on and are so biased with young players that they need someone like me to give them a reality check. There are several young players that I do rate though, namely Dunn(if used up forward), petterd, maric, stef martin (kicking is crap but he doesnt get too many kicks anyway) and garland (just got on his bandwagon).

Sorry to change the topic, AAHHH what was it again?

Oh Grimes! I actually mentioned this in my wrap up after the swans match on saturday. Yes N 3000, I agree that he is a massive chance for the Rising Star. I also mentioned some time ago he is a chance for top 5 in the bluey this year. And despite others scoffing at your claims of him beind a future captain, I would not be surprised in the slightest! He is a future L Hayes type as has been mentioned who will be predominantly a midfielder in years to come, just where we need our leader to be IMO, not at Full Forward

So Grimes is rubbish because he can't kick, but you rate Petterd highly?

Hmmmm.......

Spewing about the odds on Jack Grimes for Rising Star -- put money on him months ago and somehow his odds have gotten LONGER.

Either way, i'm hoping for a good pay day.

Out of all the candidates he's one of the few who have put in a whole AFL preseason, making him much more prepared to play all 22 rounds. Barring injury he's a damn good punt.

So Grimes is rubbish because he can't kick, but you rate Petterd highly?

Hmmmm.......

umm yeh because petterd is a more skilful player IMO.

Freak, Petterd kicks floaters regularly. Grimes doesn't.

Oh well.

It's a like a golf swing, some people have terrible looking swings but use it to the best of their ability, for example they may play off 10. But if they want to play off 5 the only way they can do this is by changing their swing.

Tell that to Jim Furyk (or Lee Trevino for the oldies).

no we won't revisit it then. All of those players were known to have good kicking skills when initially drafted.

We picked up Jones, Frawley, Bate etc. Has their kicking really improved? The answer: Hardly, if at all.

There is a reason we picked up a whole draft pool of good kicks, because we only have a few on our list that can actually kick the ball properly. If only Neil Daniher recognised this as early as i did

Why wont we revist then? Because you said so? Clearly we all must bow down to your opinion. Just because you make the same point over and over again doesn't mean that its right Freak.

Damn it guys! if only we had listened to Freak before we appointed CAC! Clearly his knowledge of the game is better and we wouldn't be in this mess!

I would say NO, because he is in an awful side. But Palmer won it last year.

I would say NO, because there is a general bias/neglience against MFC players, but Rivers and Davey came 1+2 a few years back

But I would also say no because he is in the wrong position

Could be worth a go on thirties though

Aren't we one of the most represented sides of the last few years in terms of NAB rising star noms? Wouldn't say there is a bias against us

Aren't we one of the most represented sides of the last few years in terms of NAB rising star noms? Wouldn't say there is a bias against us

Yeah I just mean bias in general... We have the most nominees

Ozzie Garland Morton

Petterd

Bate Bartram Jones

Sylvia McLean

Rivers Davey

Maric Grimes and maybe a newbie or two (Jetta, Strauss) good chances this year

yeh alot of ppl here do have the blinkers on and are so biased with young players that they need someone like me to give them a reality check. There are several young players that I do rate though, namely Dunn(if used up forward), petterd, maric, stef martin (kicking is crap but he doesnt get too many kicks anyway) and garland (just got on his bandwagon).

U have the blinkers on mate, ever seen Dal Santo go 4 goal? Sh!ts himself most times. Mayb u missed Josh Hunt turnover the ball from a kick in that cost his team a goal? Has happened more than once. I agree they might b limited to an extent by they're actions, but no player is perfect, no matter how elite their kicking generally is. There's more to it then that and as the team as a whole gets better they will all look better too, u just have the 'we suck' blinkers on. Morton and Grimes will b very good kicks over the course of their careers and Morton was considered an elite kick at junior level, or can u only remember the recruiting reports of other teams players?