Hypothetical trade with Carlton

[LeBron James 41]

A Carlton supporter on bigfooty suggested pick 17+ Bruce+ Green for pick 6.

Would you take it??

I probably would.

Would leave us with pick 1,6,19. An 11 pick upgrade for two players who aren't important, future-wise.

[Dee tention 618]

A Carlton supporter on bigfooty suggested pick 17+ Bruce+ Green for pick 6.

Would you take it??

I probably would.

Would leave us with pick 1,6,19. An 11 pick upgrade for two players who aren't important, future-wise.

No! I would'nt take it. To gain a draft pick by 11 spots for two leaders of the club is crazy. Can pick up a 200 game player with pick 17. It would destroy the team fabric and trust and leave us with little experience and leadership. Bruce and Green should be one club players. They have been two of our better players this season.

I would be hoping the Dee's could pick up Sloane with pick 17 or 19. Like his play! I hav'nt heard anybody speak of him so far. I hope the recruiters are on to him and he slips through to us.

[deanox 10,045]

A Carlton supporter on bigfooty suggested pick 17+ Bruce+ Green for pick 6.

Would you take it??

I probably would.

Would leave us with pick 1,6,19. An 11 pick upgrade for two players who aren't important, future-wise.

add in their 2nd rounder, or a swap between their 2nd and our 3rd so:

so 17+Bruce+green+35 for 6+24.

leaving us with 1,6,19 and 24.

and blues with 17, 35, bruce and green...

prob a win for both clubs. i think if anything the blues are 'winning' as in they are not paying much for two players (espcially if we swap the 2nd and 3rd round picks), however it does get us 4 picks in the important top 25, and two in the top 6. would also push hard for it to be pick 19 we give them not 17. not that it really makes much difference...

if we could keep our 3rd rounder, we would get 5 picks and the PSD pick which would be all we pick up this year i assume. if not out 5th pick goes out to 51 instead of 35...

[mo64 5,881]

A Carlton supporter on bigfooty suggested pick 17+ Bruce+ Green for pick 6.

Would you take it??

I probably would.

Would leave us with pick 1,6,19. An 11 pick upgrade for two players who aren't important, future-wise.

So our next 3 years aren't important? We won't have a future if we continue in the same fashion as this year.

I suggest that people on this forum read what Paul Roos has to say, in a Caroline Wilson article, about bottoming out. There is no set formula to winning a premiership, and there is no evidence to suggest that bottoming out is a sure fire way of achieving premiership success. All it does is give you financial grief.

[deanox 10,045]

So our next 3 years aren't important? We won't have a future if we continue in the same fashion as this year.

I suggest that people on this forum read what Paul Roos has to say, in a Caroline Wilson article, about bottoming out. There is no set formula to winning a premiership, and there is no evidence to suggest that bottoming out is a sure fire way of achieving premiership success. All it does is give you financial grief.

the problem is its too late. we've bottomed out. this year and last. a couple of extra experienced players wont make much difference at all over the next year or two, its 5 years down the track that we are now looking to.

[e25 5]

Has Jeff White officially been cut yet?

Carlton did express interest and although no one else is likely to pick him up in the PSD, it would let Carlton keep their pick if he was included.

Might be able to use him as a sweetner

Highly doubtful they would ever trade away their number 6 draft pick for 2 aging players though, especially due to the apparent depth of this draft...

(not that they ever talk about how amazingly shallow a draft is, they're always touted as being deep)

[Dee tention 618]

There would be an uproar if both Green and Bruce were traded. Different story if Green wants to go though! Would trade 17, 35, and Green for Carltons pick 6 and 24. Bruce aint going anywhere!

[mo64 5,881]

the problem is its too late. we've bottomed out. this year and last. a couple of extra experienced players wont make much difference at all over the next year or two, its 5 years down the track that we are now looking to.

Of course 2 experienced players will make a difference in the next 2 years. Our off-field success is dependent on winning games.

Show me an example since the induction of the draft, where a team won a flag after bottoming out for 3 years?

[Freak 100]

lets have a look at the previous draft pick 6's

2000: Dylan Smith (DUD)

2001: Ash Sampi (DUD)

2002: Salopek (GUN)

2003:Kepler Bradley (DUD)

2004: Tom Williams (average)

2005: Beau Dowler (TRADE BAIT)

2006: Mitch Thorp (TRADE BAIT)

i love draft picks but you have to be careful not to overrate them.

[Damo 3,437]

I would be hoping the Dee's could pick up Sloane with pick 17 or 19. Like his play! I hav'nt heard anybody speak of him so far. I hope the recruiters are on to him and he slips through to us.

I hope we are talking to Rory Sloane as well. I dont think he will be that high and he has been playing on the backline so there may be stronger interest(so Im told) from the roos and Port Adelaide.

Would love to see him come to the Dees though.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

So our next 3 years aren't important? We won't have a future if we continue in the same fashion as this year.

I suggest that people on this forum read what Paul Roos has to say, in a Caroline Wilson article, about bottoming out. There is no set formula to winning a premiership, and there is no evidence to suggest that bottoming out is a sure fire way of achieving premiership success. All it does is give you financial grief.

You make it look like a choice. With the list the current administration has inherited there was not a choice. They inherited a train wreck.

FWIW, we are already in the middle of the bottoming out process. We need to improve the quality of the playing list and it is not a quick turnaround.

Roos has the nucleus of a quality list in Goodes, Hall, O'Loughlin, Kirk and Kenneally. He needs to make hay while the sun shines. He has traded to supplement the maximum return from this list by actively trading his youth picks. But his list is aging and when those players contributions have dulled and for years traded away his youth for short term success, the lack of quality behind those stars on the list will hurt them. It will come at a cost and Roos wont be around to rebuild.

Show me an example since the induction of the draft, where a team won a flag after bottoming out for 3 years?

It will take us three years to be competitive for the Top 8..let alone a premiership.

[Red and Blue Flame 231]

I'd do another trade that didn't involve pick 17- Bruce and Green for pick 6!

we want 4 picks inside top 20, which will help us. or if we had 3 plus warnock that would be good

[deanox 10,045]

Of course 2 experienced players will make a difference in the next 2 years. Our off-field success is dependent on winning games.

Show me an example since the induction of the draft, where a team won a flag after bottoming out for 3 years?

the two players may make a difference, but they couldnt make a difference this year. neither player is a match winner, and on their own with a bunch of 18 yo's we aren't going anywhere anyway.

RE the draft, it has been around for to short a time, and understood for even less, for those comparisons to be relevant.

it is only the last 15 years that recruiters have understood how to draft, and even that is difficult still.

the next key is that drafting is not the only important step winning a premiership, and i personally believe that injury free luck is the most important ingredient. how many injuries have geelong had the last two years? brisbane didnt have brown and bradshaw missing the last 4 rounds of the season and the finals in their premiership years.

if we had had better runs at the end of 2004-06 we would have come very close, thats the way of the footy world.

but as football moves on you will see that to build a list takes 10 years of drafting, and while bottoming out doesnt guarantee success, it sure doesnt hurt to have extra picks in the top 20 where you have a better chance of getting a better player.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Has Jeff White officially been cut yet?

Carlton did express interest and although no one else is likely to pick him up in the PSD, it would let Carlton keep their pick if he was included.

Might be able to use him as a sweetner

Carlton has picked #6 in the PSD. Its no trump card for them. They wont trade for White They would laugh and say we will get him for free in the PSD#6.

[deanox 10,045]

Carlton has picked #6 in the PSD. Its no trump card for them. They wont trade for White They would laugh and say we will get him for free in the PSD#6.

exactly right. if they are keen, we might do a pick 90 for pick 96 swap to allow him to get to carlton sure thing and make everyone happy. but we wont be getting anything for jeff white.

not when we have told the world he wont play for us anymore, and not when he is out of contract.

[twist 0]

lets have a look at the previous draft pick 6's

2004: Tom Williams (average)

2006: Mitch Thorp (TRADE BAIT)

Why would Thorp be trade bait when he just signed a new deal and the Hawks rate him very highly?

Tom Williams has been one of the Dogs best backman this year before being injured and is still built like a beanpole.

Freak, do all supporters a favor and dont apply for a job as a Melbourne recruiter please.

[demonate 0]

then trade pick 6 for kerr

[H_T 3,049]

It will take us three years to be competitive for the Top 8..let alone a premiership.

At least 3 years for the Top 8.

[Freak 100]

Why would Thorp be trade bait when he just signed a new deal and the Hawks rate him very highly?

Tom Williams has been one of the Dogs best backman this year before being injured and is still built like a beanpole.

Freak, do all supporters a favor and dont apply for a job as a Melbourne recruiter please.

umm no. tom williams was not one of the dogs' best backmen. Harris(Lake), Gilbee, Morris were all considered better. At the end of the day he is 22 years old and has played only 19 games. Open up your eyes, this is considered a failed pick.

[mo64 5,881]

You make it look like a choice. With the list the current administration has inherited there was not a choice. They inherited a train wreck.

FWIW, we are already in the middle of the bottoming out process. We need to improve the quality of the playing list and it is not a quick turnaround.

Roos has the nucleus of a quality list in Goodes, Hall, O'Loughlin, Kirk and Kenneally. He needs to make hay while the sun shines. He has traded to supplement the maximum return from this list by actively trading his youth picks. But his list is aging and when those players contributions have dulled and for years traded away his youth for short term success, the lack of quality behind those stars on the list will hurt them. It will come at a cost and Roos wont be around to rebuild.

It will take us three years to be competitive for the Top 8..let alone a premiership.

You obviously didn't read the article. Roos stated that clubs aren't given enough credit for making the finals, and you for one have been critical of our sides from 2004-2006. As he states, there is no formula to winning a premiership, but you have to make the finals to have a chance.

You watch, clubs like Carlton and Richmond will receive higher praise during the off-season despite missing than finals, than the likes of Adelaide, Kangaroos, Sydney, and the WBD. Armchair experts like yourself will say that they need a cleanout of the players that won't attain them the ultimate prize. According to Roos, this is folly.

We are only in a bottoming out stage because Bailey was unable to get anything out of the experienced players, all of whom had played regularly in the finals. That's what caused the train wreck, not the previous administration.

[dimmy 1,308]

I have come up with an even better trade idea. Why dont we trade the whole team for the Number 2 Draft pick. That is how ridiculous the notion of trading Bruce & Green is.

We want loyalty from players yet we want treat them like pieces of meat. I think they have earned the option of playing out their time at Melbourne.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

...

I will make it really simple for you.

To win a flag you need talent. Teams procure talent by mainly drafting and sometimes trading for it and they develop it. And you need that talent to be able to peak at or around the same time to ultimately achieve success. There is no clear path. However each team must undertake the appropriate strategy given their list.

Making finals without ultimately win a flag is futile. This Club has done that repeatedly over the years and its been 44 years in the wilderness. If you not there to ultimately compete for a flag then you may as well give it away.

The teams in 2004 to 2006 made the finals and exit with barely a yelp. It was mediocre and we did so with a crud out of date game plan that even ND threw out because he knew it was flawed at the end of 2006. And we completely overrated our lists potential during that time traded for players that failed us and hung on to senior and NQR players who were miles past there peak or who were just depth rather than showing the same resolve we showed with Woewodin. Made the hard decisions.

The only thing that can be ascertained from your posts is you missed all this happening and looked at the ladder positions at the end of 2006 and thought the world was grand. Gee you must have worked hard to erase 2007 out of your mind. The holes that were present in 2004 to 2006 got blown wide open in 2007 and the train wreck commenced. And the fall out continues.

Bailey could not get much out of the senior players because White is finished, Yze was finished, Neitz was a ghost, Robbo was borderline till injured. Junior gamefully battled but the game has past him by. Bruce has struggled. Rivers is OP. Whelan battling injury. Not much to get when you have a senior list like that.

Keep re writing history. You have to work hard Mo when you dont wont to face the facts.

[Little Goffy 14,751]

A Carlton supporter on bigfooty suggested pick 17+ Bruce+ Green for pick 6.

Would you take it??

I probably would.

Would leave us with pick 1,6,19. An 11 pick upgrade for two players who aren't important, future-wise.

You are mad.

Mad I tells ya.

Pick six instead of pick 17 in a draft widely declared to have top-level depth down to the mid-20s.

Bah

[Guest Chopper]

Pick 1. Jack Watts

Pick 17. Sam Blease

Pick 19. Aaron Cornelius

Pick 35. David Zaharkis.

Leave it that, I think those selections are perfect.

[furious d 472]

We are only in a bottoming out stage because Bailey was unable to get anything out of the experienced players, all of whom had played regularly in the finals. That's what caused the train wreck, not the previous administration.

You are either a historical revisionist or a goldfish mo. Bailey caused the train wreck that happened a year before he arrived. Your pathological hatred of our coach is getting very tiresome and has now degenerated into fantasy. You are a disgrace