i think the issue in Paine's favour is that he is capable at Test level where as Wade is not.

I (think I) get what you mean, but that's an odd choice of words.

The word "yet" is missing at the end. A Brad Haddin moment!!

England beaten by Pakistan in three days.

How many do they have to lose before South Africa gets to #1 in the world rankings?

That's their first loss since Perth 2010 in the ASHES, a very strange series to record the loss!

The word "yet" is missing at the end. A Brad Haddin moment!!

Why don't you think he's capable?

I'd get what you meant if you'd said that he hasn't proven himself capable, which is what I thought you were might originally have meant.

The word "yet" is missing at the end. A Brad Haddin moment!!

Are you saying Wade is not capable of playing at Test level because he hasn't yet done so? Or is there something in his 'keeping that you think wouldn't translate?

Wade actually has a more favourable first class record than Paine. He also looks tidy enough with the gloves - I don't see why he couldn't take the next step. If Paine came good I don't he's so far ahead of Wade that he'd be able to waltz right in and take Wade's spot, especially if Wade found good form in the mean time.

The big question is, Tassie has produced the two heir apparents for the keeping job - what the heck are you other states doing? :-)

Bad choice of words on my part.

Paine has had a chance to prove himself and has done so which at advantage to Wade who still remains an unknown at Test level. Wade could be very good at Test level but we dont know. From the little Paine has shown we do know that. Both Paine and Wade have good claims for Haddin's spot. Paine's injury is a cruel blow in timing.

The big question is, Tassie has produced the two heir apparents for the keeping job - what the heck are you other states doing? :-)

The impact of Roger Woolley on Tasmanian cricket was substantial.

Wade actually has a more favourable first class record than Paine. He also looks tidy enough with the gloves - I don't see why he couldn't take the next step. If Paine came good I don't he's so far ahead of Wade that he'd be able to waltz right in and take Wade's spot, especially if Wade found good form in the mean time.

The big question is, Tassie has produced the two heir apparents for the keeping job - what the heck are you other states doing? :-)

Yeah, I heard Wade came from Tassie. Maybe it was Paine that was in his way ?

Tassie is doing a stirling job, Nasher.

On Wade, he's definitely no slouch with the gloves and his movement. Regarding his batting, the last couple of seasons, if you go through a lot of the results you will notice great contribution from Wade for the Vics. Countless times he has actually been the backbone of an innings whether it be first class or the one-dayer's and either saved the Vic's bacon or put them in a very good spot. IIRC he did it numerous times last season. To be able to nut out innings' like these is a pre-requisite for the top job IMO. He puts value on his wicket.

* Agree with the first class record over Paine's too.

Yeah, I heard Wade came from Tassie. Maybe it was Paine that was in his way ?

It was - he left Tassie because he was behind Paine in the pecking order.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/australia/content/story/293443.html

It was - he left Tassie because he was behind Paine in the pecking order.

http://www.espncrici...ory/293443.html

Thanks for that.

Greg Shipperd, the Victoria coach who has also led Tasmania, saw Wade's development as a young player and was thoroughly impressed. "He's a pocket rocket," Shipperd told the Herald Sun. "What he does do is score hundreds, and he has consistently done that since his junior days. He's got a good technique, really solid. He could really challenge as a batter and a keeper. And it will present Adam with a serious challenge with healthy competition for a place in the side coming into the group."

- from that espn link.

Wade has 4 x 100's at First Class level. So far he's backed up what Shipperd said back then. Certainly is a "pocket rocket".

That's their first loss since Perth 2010 in the ASHES, a very strange series to record the loss!

I caught some of it last night on FS. Their spin bowler (forget his name, sorry), took 10 wickets for the match (7 & 3 respectively) and he has something like 93 test Wickets @ avg. of 27. He's got a good variety and he was extracting good turn on that pitch which was considered a very good pitch for batting. The top order for England were considered woefully out of touch (as Botham put it) and there is two tests to go. And whilst they are to partly to blame it could be that Tremlett gets dropped for Panesar.

Pakistan are quite underrated in world cricket. They've got some damaging bowlers (Saeed Ajmal may be the world's best spinner, Umar Gul is still a good pace bowler) and their top 6 is, for once, at least stable. They're a good side and it's good to see them playing, and beating, the stronger sides.

England has been playing on South African, English and Australian pitches for most of the last 2 years. It'll be interesting to see how they adapt in the second test.

Pakistan are quite underrated in world cricket. They've got some damaging bowlers (Saeed Ajmal may be the world's best spinner, Umar Gul is still a good pace bowler) and their top 6 is, for once, at least stable. They're a good side and it's good to see them playing, and beating, the stronger sides. England has been playing on South African, English and Australian pitches for most of the last 2 years. It'll be interesting to see how they adapt in the second test.

I don't watch a great deal of cricket outside of Australian matches except for the odd bits here and there in SA series (and only because they're on TV at a convenient time). Therefore I hardly see Pakistan play - but each time I have they've been bordering on diabolical (like the last series here). I'll have to take your word for it if you believe they're underrated in general.

That said, it's nice to see them bring the poms down a peg. If you read any cricket forums online, you'll know their supporters are bloody unbearable when they're up. The world cricket equivalent of Collingwood.

I don't watch a great deal of cricket outside of Australian matches except for the odd bits here and there in SA series (and only because they're on TV at a convenient time). Therefore I hardly see Pakistan play - but each time I have they've been bordering on diabolical (like the last series here). I'll have to take your word for it if you believe they're underrated in general.

That said, it's nice to see them bring the poms down a peg. If you read any cricket forums online, you'll know their supporters are bloody unbearable when they're up. The world cricket equivalent of Collingwood.

They have managed to ditch the unpredictable, wildly swinging form of the 2000s and for the last 12-18 months they've been quite solid. They've had their current top 6 settled for about a year now, which is highly unlike Pakistan.

Here is there results in the past 12 months. Apart from the recent win against England, they shown little above what is expected from 5/6th ranked nation.

Result, margin, toss, bat 1st/2nd, Against, Location, Date

Pakistan won 10 wickets won 2nd v New Zealand Hamilton 7 Jan 2011 Pakistan draw - lost 2nd v New Zealand Wellington 15 Jan 2011 Pakistan lost 40 runs lost 2nd v West Indies Providence 12 May 2011 Pakistan won 196 runs won 1st v West Indies Basseterre 20 May 2011 Pakistan won 7 wickets won 2nd v Zimbabwe Bulawayo 1 Sep 2011 Pakistan draw - won 2nd v Sri Lanka Abu Dhabi 18 Oct 2011 Pakistan won 9 wickets lost 2nd v Sri Lanka Dubai (DSC) 26 Oct 2011 Pakistan draw - lost 2nd v Sri Lanka Sharjah 3 Nov 2011 Pakistan won inns & 184 runs won 2nd v Bangladesh Chittagong 9 Dec 2011 Pakistan won 7 wickets won 2nd v Bangladesh Dhaka 17 Dec 2011 Pakistan won 10 wickets lost 2nd v England Dubai (DSC) 17 Jan 2012

I think its too early to suggest they have ditched the unpredictability. Its been there for decades. Its a great win but they can just as easily fall in a heap. And there will always be concerns about their on field integrity. Off field they will always have problem with corruption, incompetence and nepotism. There is wealth of talented cricketers in Pakistan but no functional system to bring them through. Ajmal has come along in strides in 2011.

Interesting opinion from Malcolm Conn about the elder statesmen of our test side -Ricky Ponting, Mike Hussey and Brad Haddin must retire after Adelaide Test.

I'm more inclined to think there should be a phasing out of the older guard with Haddin first to go but he'll probably take a few catches and post a good score in Adelaide to buy some more time.

Notwithstanding what they have done this series, i think at least one of Hussey or Ponting should retire and we start easing in one of the upcoming younger players for the WI tour. Both players have been grand servants to Australian cricket and deserve a fitting send off to celebrate their respective careers. I think Haddin will tour the WI and there is a fair chance that a stroke player like Haddin may indeed like Adelaide. I can remember some years ago he hit a cracking ton there

Interesting article by Ashley Mallett (today's Age).

Always enjoy reading "Rowdy" .

Bradman vs Warne

http://www.theage.co...0120-1qa4j.html

Conn has been trying to get rid of Ponting since the last Ashes series. In the past he was saying it was because he wasn't making any runs. Now he's saying it's because he IS making runs and should go out on top.

It is hard not to view his articles as simply serving an agenda he has.

Conn has been trying to get rid of Ponting since the last Ashes series. In the past he was saying it was because he wasn't making any runs. Now he's saying it's because he IS making runs and should go out on top.

It is hard not to view his articles as simply serving an agenda he has.

Agreed.

Here is there results in the past 12 months. Apart from the recent win against England, they shown little above what is expected from 5/6th ranked nation.

Result, margin, toss, bat 1st/2nd, Against, Location, Date

Pakistan won 10 wickets won 2nd v New Zealand Hamilton 7 Jan 2011 Pakistan draw - lost 2nd v New Zealand Wellington 15 Jan 2011 Pakistan lost 40 runs lost 2nd v West Indies Providence 12 May 2011 Pakistan won 196 runs won 1st v West Indies Basseterre 20 May 2011 Pakistan won 7 wickets won 2nd v Zimbabwe Bulawayo 1 Sep 2011 Pakistan draw - won 2nd v Sri Lanka Abu Dhabi 18 Oct 2011 Pakistan won 9 wickets lost 2nd v Sri Lanka Dubai (DSC) 26 Oct 2011 Pakistan draw - lost 2nd v Sri Lanka Sharjah 3 Nov 2011 Pakistan won inns & 184 runs won 2nd v Bangladesh Chittagong 9 Dec 2011 Pakistan won 7 wickets won 2nd v Bangladesh Dhaka 17 Dec 2011 Pakistan won 10 wickets lost 2nd v England Dubai (DSC) 17 Jan 2012

I think its too early to suggest they have ditched the unpredictability. Its been there for decades. Its a great win but they can just as easily fall in a heap. And there will always be concerns about their on field integrity. Off field they will always have problem with corruption, incompetence and nepotism. There is wealth of talented cricketers in Pakistan but no functional system to bring them through. Ajmal has come along in strides in 2011.

They may have played much of their cricket against NZ, WI and Zimbabwe, but that doesn't change the fact that they have developed a side that is beginning to gel as an XI, and is playing consistent cricket. They have done a lot of work to find a group of players who actually care, and it seems to be working.

Of course, if they were to lose the series to England and lose future series to sides like South Africa, India and Australia, it might all be for nought. But you have to be pleased with what they've achieved over the last year or so, and I see a bright future for them.

Agreed.

They may have played much of their cricket against NZ, WI and Zimbabwe, but that doesn't change the fact that they have developed a side that is beginning to gel as an XI, and is playing consistent cricket. They have done a lot of work to find a group of players who actually care, and it seems to be working.

Of course, if they were to lose the series to England and lose future series to sides like South Africa, India and Australia, it might all be for nought. But you have to be pleased with what they've achieved over the last year or so, and I see a bright future for them.

Its early days TU its early days. We are talking about a side that has question marks over the integrity of key individuals, teams and administrations for well over a decade. I am pleased with what they have done over the past 12 months because they have not blown themselves up with a scandal, a bribe or just plain cheating.

They have achieved in the past 12 months what any other side would call a normal year at the office. For that we should be grateful. But lets not overcook it. The next Pakistani scandal is just around the corner.

I only see a bright future for spinner Saeed Ajmal. He's a class act. As for the team, I'm unsure on a "bright future", they were enjoying themselves in Dubai. Gul was enjoying himself even after being denied a wicket with a no ball when England were reeling at 7-88 in the second innings, thinking he'd claimed his fifth. Prefer to see more of this side to be honest to make a better assessment. I haven't seen them for some time before the Dubai encounter. The second Test will tell us more.

I read a Cricinfo/Wisden write up where they name their Test side for 2011 and Ajmal was the spinner. A faire tribute. He has improved alot and the England Test is testimony to his improvement.

I read a Cricinfo/Wisden write up where they name their Test side for 2011 and Ajmal was the spinner. A faire tribute. He has improved alot and the England Test is testimony to his improvement.

Definitely deserving. Swann had a poor year, Tahir from South Africa, Lyon, and Bishoo from the Windies are just developing, Sri Lanka and India rotate their spinners too much for one sole spinner to get a long period of wicket taking, and Shakib al Hasan from Bangladesh is good but doesn't play anywhere near enough cricket to be close to in a 2011 XI.

Ajmal, really, is well in front of anyone else, although Ashwin is good on turning pitches and Bishoo looks a promising prospect (as does Lyon, really).

In other spinning news, Brad Hogg is back in Australian colours, picked in the squad for the Australian T20 series against India. He's 40. Also, Cameron White has gone from captain of the T20 side to not being in it, with George Bailey doing the opposite. He's never played for Australia before, so his first game for the side will be as captain.