Anyone for cricket?

[45HG 1,539]

I think it's fair to say that for the first time since this thread started that the MFC's stocks are higher than the Australian Test XI's.

Funny you make the comparison because all I keep thinking is 186.

[Qwerty30 196]

I actually wish we were able to make 186.

[John Crow Batty 8,863]

No such thing as fair dinkum test cricket any more. Once it was an arm wrestle with ebb and flow for how long it took and battled out to the finish, win, lose or draw. Now when one team gets the upper hand the other folds in a blink. This game is now [censored].

[MadAsHell 4,212]

Showing some fight so far today.

Lets see how long it lasts....

[Demon Jack 6,909]

100 run partnership between Rogers and Warner. Hanging in there...

EDIT: annnnnnd....Rogers is out.

RE-EDIT: annnnnnd.....Its a no-ball.

Edited August 7, 2015 by Demon Jack

[Macca 16,969]

We're getting a good run of luck ... dropped catches ... a no-ball when they do catch one.

Then Rogers misses one by half a metre and they all go up - what, what!

[MadAsHell 4,212]

And now Rogers is out!

[dee-luded 2,959]

No such thing as fair dinkum test cricket any more. Once it was an arm wrestle with ebb and flow for how long it took and battled out to the finish, win, lose or draw. Now when one team gets the upper hand the other folds in a blink. This game is now [censored].

Han't been the same since around the late 90's, I think, give or take. What happened at that time (late 90's) ???? as footy started to go 'Off' as well, slowly ebbing away. By 2005, footy was going sour like milk in the sun.

cricket for me was going off under Ponting, & clarke's just capped it off.

better recently with Boof at the helm, but what on earth has happened this tour? & other past tours?

[Demon Jack 6,909]

Warner is gone. Silly shot.

[MadAsHell 4,212]

Another collapse. 4 wickets in 20 minutes!

Rogers going to hard at a swinging ball just outside off stump, Warner playing a stupid cross bat shot, Marsh waving his bat outside the line of 6th/7th stump as usual & Smith having no regard for the situation.

Would have hoped we'd learnt from the 1st Innings & Edgbaston, but obviously not!

[grazman 7,434]

Interesting comments from Ed Cowan this morning who stated that Cricket Australia had ordered that flat pitches were to be prepared for Sheffield Shield. This allows players with technical deficiencies to look better than they are, but means that we get exposed on pitches where the ball actually starts to do a bit. Been like this for the last ten years. Once Clarke goes there's only two locks in the top six for mine.

[Qwerty30 196]

Interesting comments from Ed Cowan this morning who stated that Cricket Australia had ordered that flat pitches were to be prepared for Sheffield Shield. This allows players with technical deficiencies to look better than they are, but means that we get exposed on pitches where the ball actually starts to do a bit. Been like this for the last ten years. Once Clarke goes there's only two locks in the top six for mine.

Not surprised to hear that at all. Voges hits 1400 runs in the Shield last summer and looks all at sea against the moving ball. He clearly isn't the only one.

I think at the end of this series Clarke will be swiftly followed by Voges, S Marsh. Watson and Haddin already done. Only Warner and Smith are locks for mine. The ACB should working is butt off to convince Bucky Rogers to play for another 6-12 months to at least balance out the inexperience within the middle order being re built. For a starter I would drop S Marsh and pick M Marsh for the final test and start the rebuild process.

Great spirited bowling by Starc under adversity. While the batting has largely been a fail, Australia has sadly missed the skill, guile, experience of Ryan Harris.

[titan_uranus 25,018]

Appalling cricket, yet again, from Smith - absolutely rank shot on Day 2 when you're 200-odd runs behind. Just make it to tea, then stumps, then the next day FFS!

We are likely to go down by an innings, and if not, then by 10 wickets with a chase set of less than 50 runs.

I think we have a tour of Bangladesh before the summer - danger?

Rogers will retire, though I'd keep picking him if not. Smith needs to mature. Marsh and Voges aren't the future if they can't play swing and keep pushing hard outside off. Clarke's finished. So too Watson and Haddin. Hazlewood's not threatening enough, Starc can't control it well enough, Johnson's only got two threats (pace and bounce) so can't do it all himself when the pitches aren't right.

Warner, Smith, Johnson and Lyon are the only players IMO who are a definitive part of the immediate future of Test cricket.

[grazman 7,434]

Warner, Smith, Johnson and Lyon are the only players IMO who are a definitive part of the immediate future of Test cricket.

Agree, our bowling stocks are well served, but it's always easier to bring in bowlers taking wickets than batsmen making runs. There are enough good quicks and spinning options on the sideline to offer support, but the batting... Byrnes and Ferguson are probably the two most likely based on last years form and age, - Neither Klinger or Cowan fill me with confidence.

I just can't believe we are getting pantsed by an English attack that includes, Ali, Finn and Wood (These guys would have been smashed all over the park by any Mark Taylor, Steve Waugh or even Ricky Ponting led sides). Our batting has been deplorable. Healy hinted that the WAGs were a distraction (which I interpret to mean the sort of reality TV faux drama that only serves to divide the dressing room by their other halves having to take sides n their bitching about each other).

[Qwerty30 196]

Appalling cricket, yet again....

Warner, Smith, Johnson and Lyon are the only players IMO who are a definitive part of the immediate future of Test cricket.

I'd have Starc there because at 25 he will get better. And after last night he showed he can perform under adversity. Might help if he bats up the order too.

Agree, our bowling stocks are well served, but it's always easier to bring in bowlers taking wickets than batsmen making runs. There are enough good quicks and spinning options on the sideline to offer support, but the batting...

I just can't believe we are getting pantsed by an English attack that includes, Ali, Finn and Wood (These guys would have been smashed all over the park by any Mark Taylor, Steve Waugh or even Ricky Ponting led sides). Our batting has been deplorable.

Right on both counts.

[dee-luded 2,959]

Interesting comments from Ed Cowan this morning who stated that Cricket Australia had ordered that flat pitches were to be prepared for Sheffield Shield. This allows players with technical deficiencies to look better than they are, but means that we get exposed on pitches where the ball actually starts to do a bit. Been like this for the last ten years. Once Clarke goes there's only two locks in the top six for mine.

is it time to use a ball that moves about more, in jnr cricket, & in development stages of our local cricket?

[Macca 16,969]

We picked an old & aging squad who have had their butts kicked - serves us right. The selectors have a lot to answer for.

It's time to rebuild primarily with youth - this policy of picking older blokes or players well past their best needs to be addressed - picking players to "play a role" or having "stop-gap measures" is a philosophy that looks foolish if it doesn't work. I've never been an advocate of necessarily picking player who has made the "most runs" at the next level down. There's a lot more to unearthing a top test batsman than that. There's "longevity" to take into account as well. Rogers has been a relative success but just 2 years down the track, he's going.

Out of the initial squad of 17 up to 9 players are either finished, aren't the future or aren't good enough. That's far too high a number but the selectors have only got themselves to blame for the dilemma we find ourselves in. They made the choices so they have to wear the consequences.

Harris, Haddin, Watson, Rogers, Voges, S Marsh, Clarke, Nevill & Siddle are either finished or they have big question marks against their names - Nevill's keeping is "adequate" and his batting is average - I hope he can improve because he needs to - he turns 30 in a month. Siddle is medium/fast at best these days whilst Voges & S Marsh do not represent the future - the rest of the aforementioned 9 are either finished, are finishing up or close to finishing up.

I really hope Clarke can turn things around and champion players often do - the short ball is a major weakness for him now and he needs to overcome that. His weakness against the short ball is affecting the other parts of his game.

However, there's a number of young talented batsmen in shield ranks so it's not all doom and gloom - again, the issue is perception rather than reality - many of our previous top batsmen were virtual unknowns before they were initially picked for Australia.

Some of the young batsmen to keep an eye on - Stoinis, Maddinson, Bancroft, Silk, Handscomb, Head, Patterson, Lynn, Burns & Khawaja ... all are worth consideration by the selectors - others like Maxwell & Henriques may get a recall but the all-rounders spot is Mitch Marsh's for the foreseeable future (he should have played in this test) Khawaja needs to learn to go on with it (and he can) whilst Maxwell is a rare talent who needs to work on his temperament. Burns showed a bit and may get another chance - the others all have "potential" but it's always been that way with young batsmen - there's not too many Don Bradman's about.

If the selectors can get their act together I'm quite confident that we'll bounce back almost straight away - the bowling stocks look plentiful in comparison - Pattinson, Cummins & Coulter-Nile have big upsides and there's other bowlers on the horizon too. Starc & Hazlewood can only get better.

The young batsmen picked should be based on a trial & error basis - as it's traditionally been. Give 'em 3 or 4 tests (initially) and see where we go from there - rotate another young batsmen in if needed. Like footy, people shouldn't be looking for instant results or the next "wunderkind" ... these things take time.

The weird bit is how many footy followers seem to be obsessed with under 18 talent yet when it comes to cricket, these same people have almost no knowledge of the young talent coming through. Because it's not in their face, they presume bleakness.

The other issue is the drop-in wickets or decks that don't offer much to seam or spin bowling in this country anymore - that effects both our batsmen and our bowlers. We're really good on flat decks or hard and fast surfaces but we continue to struggle when the ball has sideways movement (especially in England & India)

Next up it's Bangladesh & the Windies who aren't very strong ... we play the Kiwis in-between those 2 nations but New Zealand are nearly always hard to beat - and they're a much better team these days as well.

[titan_uranus 25,018]

Some of the young batsmen to keep an eye on - Stoinis, Maddinson, Bancroft, Silk, Handscomb, Head, Patterson, Lynn, Burns & Khawaja ... all are worth consideration by the selectors - others like Maxwell & Henriques may get a recall but the all-rounders spot is Mitch Marsh's for the foreseeable future (he should have played in this test) Khawaja needs to learn to go on with it (and he can) whilst Maxwell is a rare talent who needs to work on his temperament. Burns showed a bit and may get another chance - the others all have "potential" but it's always been that way with young batsmen - there's not too many Don Bradman's about.

If the selectors can get their act together I'm quite confident that we'll bounce back almost straight away - the bowling stocks look plentiful in comparison - Pattinson, Cummins & Coulter-Nile have big upsides and there's other bowlers on the horizon too. Starc & Hazlewood can only get better.

I'm sure we'll bounce back almost straight away - whether it's against Bangladesh, or at home against NZ and the WIndies (home = our conditions = easier for our players), we'll score more runs and Lehmann and Clarke (if either are still there) will say 'see? We told you so!'.

The key is to find the right young batsmen who have the required technique. Khawaja has always shown that, but cannot convert it to Test level. Maxwell, on the other hand, has no technique to speak of and is everything that is wrong with Australian cricket.

I like Maddinson, Silk, Lynn and Burns, although Burns last summer was disappointing. Hopefully Shield pitches this summer are greener and give the batsmen more of a test against swing and seam.

Of course, the real test is four years away - no England tour until 2019. Over the next two years, prior to the next Ashes in Australia in 2017/18, we have (for Tests):

• Away to Bangladesh
• Home to NZ/Windies
• Away to NZ
• Away to South Africa (TBC)
• Away to Sri Lanka
• Home to South Africa/Pakistan
• Away to India
• Home to Bangladesh

Of that, the NZ tour in February should be good, although their pitches are more like South Africa's than England's. The Away tour of Sri Lanka in July and the tour of India in March 2017 will be disasters, IMO, unless we find the right batsmen this summer.

[Macca 16,969]

Appalling cricket, yet again, from Smith - absolutely rank shot on Day 2 when you're 200-odd runs behind. Just make it to tea, then stumps, then the next day FFS!

We are likely to go down by an innings, and if not, then by 10 wickets with a chase set of less than 50 runs.

I think we have a tour of Bangladesh before the summer - danger?

Rogers will retire, though I'd keep picking him if not. Smith needs to mature. Marsh and Voges aren't the future if they can't play swing and keep pushing hard outside off. Clarke's finished. So too Watson and Haddin. Hazlewood's not threatening enough, Starc can't control it well enough, Johnson's only got two threats (pace and bounce) so can't do it all himself when the pitches aren't right.

Warner, Smith, Johnson and Lyon are the only players IMO who are a definitive part of the immediate future of Test cricket.

You're perhaps expecting too much, too early. Hazlewood and Starc can only get better and we shouldn't be blaming the younger bowling members of the side when the obvious issue is the batsmen. It's hard for a bowling unit to protect scores such as "60" ... ordinarily, Harris might have been expected to play in most or all of the tests over there which could have meant that Starc & Hazlewood were rotated in and out of the team. Our bowling unit might be inexperienced but at least there's an upside.

Re the batting, oddly enough, our best current batsman is Rogers - but he's retiring. Even if he did go on for another year we still need to try someone else in the openers spot eventually... another opener "type" may well be needed for the no.3 spot too - a good no.3 also needs to have the capacity to open the innings as well as set up a teams score.

Smith looks more suited to no.4 but he may be persevered with at no.3. We'll also be needing a no.5 soon enough as well (unless Clarke can turn things around) The all-rounders spot isn't absolutely secure either - or the keepers spot.

I'm sure we'll bounce back almost straight away - whether it's against Bangladesh, or at home against NZ and the WIndies (home = our conditions = easier for our players), we'll score more runs and Lehmann and Clarke (if either are still there) will say 'see? We told you so!'.

The key is to find the right young batsmen who have the required technique. Khawaja has always shown that, but cannot convert it to Test level. Maxwell, on the other hand, has no technique to speak of and is everything that is wrong with Australian cricket.

I like Maddinson, Silk, Lynn and Burns, although Burns last summer was disappointing. Hopefully Shield pitches this summer are greener and give the batsmen more of a test against swing and seam.

Of course, the real test is four years away - no England tour until 2019. Over the next two years, prior to the next Ashes in Australia in 2017/18, we have (for Tests):

• Away to Bangladesh
• Home to NZ/Windies
• Away to NZ
• Away to South Africa (TBC)
• Away to Sri Lanka
• Home to South Africa/Pakistan
• Away to India
• Home to Bangladesh

Of that, the NZ tour in February should be good, although their pitches are more like South Africa's than England's. The Away tour of Sri Lanka in July and the tour of India in March 2017 will be disasters, IMO, unless we find the right batsmen this summer.

Re Maxwell - let's not confuse technique with playing risky shots/temperament. Watch Maxwell closely - he has a sound defence and has all the shots - he's an ideal no.6 but his issues are that he's in too much of a hurry when he gets to the crease. Maxwell needs to tone down the way he plays - again, his issues can be fixed but that's up to Maxwell. I'm certainly not predicting greatness for him but I won't rule a line through him the same as I don't like ruling a line through young players as a general rule. I have the same philosophy in footy.

Warner has been "unorthodox" for most of his test career and we're going to see more and more batsmen take more risks as the game progresses - the shorter forms of the game will create the new breed of batsmen - get used to it. Even Rogers gets on with it these days.

Re Burns - don't be looking for instant results. He was a spec pick and like footy, not all spec picks will give you instant results. Patience and proper development are the keys ... at least Burns now knows what to do to make it as a test batsman - well, at least he should know. Many young players such as Hayden, Martyn et al fought their way back after extended absences.

As for the old boys ... first Hilditch and now Lehmann have fallen for the trap of filling gaps with older batsmen instead of building a team for the future. We kept picking older players and now we probably need a major re-build. I'm not against picking older players per se but we need to get the right mix. The squad over in England right now has far too many players who are at or near the end.

And I disagree on the next "real test" ... for me it's probably New Zealand (twice), then India, then England here with South Africa twice before we go back to England again. These are all "big" to "biggish" series that we need to win.

The aim should be to be a powerhouse again - a team capable of winning 16 tests in a row - which we did twice in the not too distant past. Anything less than that is not living up to the high standards that have been set.

.

Edited August 8, 2015 by Macca

[dee-luded 2,959]

my impressions from afar......

• David Warner - October 27, 1986 (age 28).........6/10
  
• 
  
• Chris Rogers - August 31, 1977 (age 37)...........7.5/10
  
• 
  
• Steven Smith - June 2, 1989 (age 26).................6/10
  
• 
  
• Shaun Marsh - July 9, 1983 (age 32)..................4/10
  
• .
  
• Michael Clarke - April 2, 1981 (age 34)..............4/10
  
• 
  
• Adam Voges - October 4, 1979 (age 35)............3/10
  
• 
  
• Peter Nevill - October 13, 1985 (age 29).............6/10
  
• 
  
• Mitchell Johnson - November 2, 1981 (age 33)...7/10
  
• 
  
• Mitchell Starc - January 30, 1990 (age 25)..........7/10
  
• 
  
• Josh Hazlewood - January 8, 1991 (age 24)........5/10
  
• 
  
• Nathan Lyon - November 20, 1987 (age 27)........7/10
  

[Moonshadow 17,676]

Just heard the ch 9 commentator (Slats?) say that Michael Clark "failed to spring back to life after the death of Phil Hughes". Really? Couldn't have chosen worse words.

[Macca 16,969]

Clarke set to retire after Ashes

Pup has had a wonderful career - a sad way to go out but he did captain a world cup winning side just a few months ago. An outstanding batsman and let's hope he makes some runs at the oval - he deserves a good send off.

[Biffen 12,943]

The great self made man Jamie Packer has rightly stepped out to defend another Australian sporting headline ,his boating mate Pup.

Never in my life have we had such a weak ,front running,uninspiring bogan as leader(of the nation) but ,for all that ,he won his way back into our hearts with his cheap tatts,his running off on tour to be with his slag gf,his flashy cars,his mate JP on the ice breaker ,his sacking of Symonds,his sacking of Katich ,his losses in Dubai,NZ,England,India ,South Africa,his stodgy hard handed technique ,his weak whimpy back,his whining dad ,his cakewalk career,his ambition in pushing out Punter.

Sure he had his critics ,but he always answered them emphatically by deflecting criticism to his mate Watto.

The end of a sad period in Australian cricket.

Finally.

[MadAsHell 4,212]

While I agree about his handling/involvement re the Katich situation I couldn't disagree more with you Biffen.

Like him or not, Clarke will go down as one of Australia's all time great batsmen.

* He's made triple & double centuries. 28 Centuries in total.

* Batting average just shy of 50.

* Captained winning tours of South Africa, Sri Lanka, New Zealand and the West Indies

* Captained a 5-0 Ashes whitewash victory.

* Was a member of our 2004 winning touring party of India.

* Has taken over 30 Test wickets.

He's played some great innings along the way. Made two personal favourites being his debut ton v India in Bangalore in 2004. Coming in at a difficult time with us 4/140 odd batting first on a turner. Then two great partnerships, first with Katich and then with Gilchrist on his way to 151 saw us make a big total and go on to win that series. I remember the ball turning sideways with Anil Kumble bowling round the wicket and Clarke just dancing down to hit him straight back over his head for 6. Knew he was going to be something special from then,

His other great innings IMO was his 27th ton v South Africa in the 3rd & final test of the 2014 tour in Cape Town. Series locked at 1-1 and Clarke in f form slump, he was on the end of one of the more brutal work overs I've ever witnessed by Morne Morkel. Got hit multiple times and alegedly received a fractured shoulder as a result. However he got through it and went on to make a brilliant ton and set up was was a memorable win. If you haven't witnessed it, you should!

And that's only a sample!

Him loosing the captaincy was always coming and rightly so, as sweeping changes should be made following this embarrasment! But I thought Clarke should stay on and bat at number 5 to provide some support for Smith/Warner going forward. I hope he does well at The Oval, and given the series is lost I actually hope all he, Haddin, Watson & Rogers all play (Rogers obviously will) and can bow out together with a win..

As for an XI going forward. I like the look of something like:

Cameron Bancroft

David Warner (vc)

Joe Burns

Steve Smith*

Peter Handscomb

Mitch Marsh

+Tim Ludeman

Mitchell Johnson

Mitchell Starc/James Pattinson/Pat Cummins

Peter Siddle

Nathan Lyon

*Bancroft is very young and has shown a lot of promise in the recent Shield season. He also recently made a patient 133 v India A in Chennai off about 295 balls I believe, so he can grind out an innings on difficult wickets.

*Burns I think has the right balance of attack and defence to bat at number 3. It's why I'd probably favour him to giving the nod to Khawaja.

*Handscomb I'm a big fan of. Very good player of spin and improving against pace. Was the leading run scorer in Shield cricket after the first 4 rounds until injury struck. Came back and batted well, but just not in quite the same form. Also made a 91 v India A. He can also keep, which would be handy for slecting a touring squad not having to worry about back up keepers.

*While Mitch Marsh I think should be the main all rounder, I think that number 6 spot should become somewhat rotatable if we end up playing on raging turners, and this is where I think the Big Show Glenn Maxwell could find his niche. He could become a overseas tour player only just about in India, UAE, Sri Lanka & Bangladesh. He's also a very good player of spin bowling which could be handy.

*For the keeper, I think it's time we went old school and just picked the best gloveman. After Nevill's scratchy glove skills and Haddin's drop of Root in the first test possibly being a series defining moment, I think we should just focus during this rebuilding phase of just having a keeper who takes every chance that comes his way and any runs he makes being a bonus. So this is where Ludeman comes into the picture for me.

*Siddle should come into the XI once more IMO with the retirement of Harris. His control and experience will be valuable not just for the team, but especially Johnson. I don't think Mitch could be as effective during this series as his fellow bowlers (although not as bad as the batsmen) leaked to many runs due to lack of control. This is where Siddle should come into his own.

*Final quick bowlers spot I'd give to whoever was in form/fit between Starc, Pattinson & Cummins. At the moment that would obviously be Starc.

Other players to keep an eye on would be Usman Khawaja, Nic Maddinson, Jordan Silk & Travis Head as far as batsmen go. Marcus Stoinis would be the next seam bowling all rounder I'd be looking to after Mitch Marsh. Sam Whiteman is a distant future keeper to watch, similar to Ashton Agar as a spin bowler. While the likes of Josh Hazlewood & Nathan Coulter-Nile are by no means forgotten. When Suddle's time is up Hazlewood would be an obvious replacement.

Sad series and a sad end for not just Pup, but several other Aussie players. After The Oval I don't expect to see and of Clarke, Watson, Haddin, Rogers, Voges, Shaun Marsh or Fawad Ahmed near an Aussie Test XI again.

[Qwerty30 196]

Good post Angry. Not sure the Clarke dissent deserved a basic serving of the obvious.

I would have added World Cup Captain.

Not sure why you have Siddle ahead of Starc. Ponting said that Siddle believed that if he was ever going to play Test Cricket again it was at Trent Bridge.

For mine Siddle is finished and selectors dont back him. He is no way an adequate replacement or even partial cover for loss of Harris.

Starc is our No 1 strike bowler and this series has proven it. He can certainly improve and I believe will. And I think we need to look beyond Johnson too in the next 6/12 months. He has looked flat for most of this series and has hardly put any fear in the Poms at Trent Bridge.

And I would not be throwing out Hazlewood after one poor series. He was v good up to the Ashes. He has had a lesson here but will come back.

At this stage Ahmed was not close to an Ashes Test but I would not be ruling him out. As a spinner he is still in his prime. The batting farce prevent a real assessment of where Lyon is at.