Roger Mellie

On another note - Brodie Grundy, for mine, is the best young ruckman I've seen. Normally you'd expect to see that level of impact in a ruckman in his third, forth or fifth year in the system.

I agree completely with efficient tap outs and pressure etc being the most important issue and wasn't trying to illustrate otherwise - more that these days ruckman cant get away with not being able to kick as much as they could in the past and that teams aren't willing to carry them. I also agree that Fitzpatrick has improved every single aspect of his game since he trotted around in the Casey 2's looking like a permanent fixture.

Not intended as a hate Melbourne thread but possibly could have timed and worded it better HG. By bigger picture, I meant our general kicking skills - not just ruckmen but I agree with the your recruitment point (the master). I nearly put Vickery in the cant kick category and yes it's all subjective. BBO - agree to disagree on Fitz and Spencer

By kicking I mean, more often than not, can hit a target. Rucks (and ruck forwards) that can kick IMO: Jacobs, Jenkins, Longer, Leuenberger, Kreuzer, Warnock, Casboult, Jolly, Grundie, Bellchambers, Ryder, Hille, Griffen, Sandilands, Hannath, MacIntosh, Vardy, Blicavs, Z Smith, T Nicholls, Giles, Brogan, Roughead, Hale, Bailey, Gawn, Goldstien, Vickery, McEvoy, Stanley, Mumford, Tippett, Cox, Natanui, Minson, Cordy Rucks that cant kick: Hampson, T West, Jamar, Spencer, Fitzpatrick Not sure if they can kick and not really fussed: Currie, Daw, Renouf, Phillips, Redden, Maric, Derickx, Lowden, Ceglar, Witts, J Walker, Grimley It's debatable the impact of a ruckman's kicking on a game - clearly a huge benefit in front of goals. Yes, most ruckmen dish off - some for fast ball movement, others to avoid kicking or both. Does it show our inability to develop a player's kicking at all? Is it part of a bigger ugly picture? Watching Spencer and Fitzpatrick kicking on the weekend (or missing as the case may be), I decided to look at all AFL ruckmen and see where we stood - and that's about last

It's not like there's anything better to do

Would happily have either of those. I hadn't really considered GWS as lacking in tall forwards but perhaps they are. Patton and Cameron are the guns, but after that, there's not much: - Tomlinson has been OK (plays back as well I think). To me he'll need a few more years in the system to pack a punch - O'Hailpin is an ageing (enthusiastic) hack - Jacsch is yet to debut So there may be scope for an experienced, bigger bodied forward (yes, I'm trying to dress him up here). The hard part is getting the planets to line up - Adams agrees to going to any Victorian club or GWS insists Adams goes where they want him and, wait for it - GWS wants Watts(and a pick) and Watts agrees! Yeah nah

This thread's up there with the best of them: - someone says ACL / PCL whatever..... yep that's it, they're practically the same thing... give or take 10 months or a season - there's the argument for Hogan to not play when fit - there's a fan wanting Couch to be automatically upgraded - and, I'd like to lend weight to the argument that AFL footballers can actually hurt themselves off the field (Wellingham on the trampoline) with Daniel Wells in the shower - 8 to 12 weeks! Go Scorps/Dees

As mentioned in the OP - 'some are rediculous' but perhaps you could look at the other side of the equation. Some coaches (the media's telling us about Malthouse and Lyon) will think they can make Watts the star he should be and are in need (some desperate) of tall forwards. We also have picks 2, 20 + 38ish to work with and potentially a priority pick - most would acknowledge Watts in his own right wont land a gun. We also have to factor in that no one will want to play for Melbourne, except the odd fringe-dwelling, homesick Victorian. Let's look at Brisbane, for example: Jonathan Brown wants to retire but may have to do another year as there's no one else (astoundingly, Stef Martin couldn't solve all their problems). I suspect they will trade aggressively for a tall forward. Assuming Watts doesn't demand to be traded to Club A, then there's some scope for a trade. Looking at their mids: Jared Polec - highly rated underachiever that I expect Brisbane will trade for the right price. I wouldn't be surprised if he flourished back in Sth Aust so a three way deal might work with picks. Patrick Karnezis - talented underachiever with no defensive side - we have plenty of those! Fit's the fringe-dwelling homesick Victorian category. Daniel Rich - (nearly) a gun who cant handle a tag. Redden - gun with occasional disappearing acts and Mayes - gun in the making, would all be in the same category Ie. Nigh on impossible to get over the line without dropping Boyd in their laps. There is the similar scenario for Rockliff, who conveniently is a Victorian. If he wants to come home we'd throw bucket loads at him to distract him from finals aspirations at a decent club. Watts and Pick 20? Watts and 2 for Rockliff and 8 (or whatever it is) What do you think it would take to get Rockliff assuming he wants a return to Victoria? Dayne Zorko - could not extract from Qld Clay Beams - Nothing special and injury prone James Polkinghorne - spud Harwood - Fringe dwelling inside mid from the mappa Lester- don't know enough him Carlton...

I didn't see The Footy Show (cant think why), but it seems Jack didn't cover himself in glory so time to get down to business. What can we get for him? First stop, the teams short on talls/forwards: Adelaide, Freo, Bullies, Brisvegas, Carlton, St Kilda Trade possibilities (realistic and ridiculous) Jack Watts for Rory Sloane Jack Watts and Pick for Brad Crouch Jack Watts for Scott Thompson + pick Jack Watts for Barlow? Jack Watts for Jack McCrae would be nice, Clay Smith? Other dogs? Jack Watts for Daniel Rich Watts to Brisbane, Rich to WCE, Gaff to MFC (+picks) Watts for Redden or Polec? Watts for Carazzo Watts for Gibbs (a bit like for like and I don't) Do not want Yarran Watts for Jack Steven? GWS - Watts for Adams, Devon Smith (MFC supporter) or other mid Over to you:

Anyone know who was on Aaron Hall?

No it was Port Adelaide in the preseason at Renmark (I think that's what he means) I agree with TU - Howe was putrid

Howe - although mates with many

Agree on Taggert - has been in the best at Casey once (I think) this year and isn't being played in the midfield. Those that saw him tear it up one game last year before being injured again are way too impatient. He's along way from a senior birth at this stage. i assume it's baby steps with him and his injury management this year. If not we have a potentially decent mid going nowhere in the Casey forward line. On the subject of Davis - dud kick but way better competitor than Dunn and I'd be happy to see him out there instead (or Pedo) Watts looked way more interested in the game than usual. A bit of intensity even (in between the Jack Riewoldt style petulance/diving)

A few good signs here. We seem to waver between positive attacking, even spreading footy and [censored] ourselves/spectating. Something to do with confidence and uncertainty

Chris Kelaher? Do not see him as president material at all.

Spencer is in the team because, other than Jamar, he's the only ruckman who can play that position all game. McEvoy runs all day and is nearly as slow as Jake. Gawn & Fitz would conk out pretty quickly. It's either Spencer and Gawn or Spencer and Fitzpatrick. I'd prefer big Gawny but presume they're giving Fitzspud at extended run. I wouldn't be surprised to see Nicho in the negating role. At least he has some speed, unlike Haggis McPlodder. On the subject of speed - the ins all seem to have a bit of toe (other than Spencer) - a welcome sight as St Kilda aint quick.

In Clisby, Byrnes Spencer and Nicho Out Jordie, Jamar, Evans, Tapscott

Need to keep No. 18 free for him

On ABC News tonight they claimed Jackson had 4 targets on his hit list for Football Manager (NOT Coach). Daniher was one of them. Just trying to remember the others...

He has clear ties to the club so I wouldn't rule out a situation like the West Coast/Port Ebert. It's less likely but given the hole we're in but I think we have a truck load more salary cap space than GCS (trying to hold on to all that talent)

We are in a position to throw a lot of money his way. Slot him in the midfield in place of McKenzie, Rodan or any other spud and our midfield starts to look better: Jones, Viney, Prestia Later Toumpas, Taggert and Pick 1 or 2

Spud O Rama

Gillies aaahhhh

Does anyone know why Taggert's playing in the forward line? Did he have any time in the midfield yesterday? Initially, I thought they were just trying to get him fit, now I don't get it. Maybe it's a back management issue? I really don't think we need another hack defensive forward when our midfield is so tragic Can anyone enlighten

It's Monday - whiteboard wednesday's in 2 days