The heart beats true

There is no winner in this. I was mad with Liam when he walked out on the club and I realize now that most of it was selfish because he could have been a great player for the club and I would have loved to watch him star for the Dees. I wish him the best now. I suspect his world is getting smaller and smaller and the problems he'll face are bigger and bigger.

This is absolute [censored]. To draw a line between sexuality and AIDS in this day and age shows exactly why we need social awareness campaigns. The majority of people with AIDS are poor Africans with little to no education. It's not 1983 anymore. And this whole argument about the 'majority of the actual public' is proven to be untrue as well. On last count 60% of the Australian population supported gay marriage, one of the highest approval ratings in the world. Seriously, if you're going to speak you might want to think first.

I know what you can do right now, today. We should all be telling anyone who will listen (fans, media, anyone) that we 100% support the club in planning for its long term future. Tell them that it's been such a successful tool for other clubs including Collingwood, Carlton and WCE and that we did the right thing. Not only was it right but it was encouraged by the league by the rules they put in place. The only shame is that we havent benefited as well as others did. We have to change the context of the argument from did we try to lose to why we planned for the future, and why the league encouraged it. The story isn't us. It is the mistake the league made in its system. A mistake they've now rectified.

Well done Nicho. A testament to hard work.

This has been my ongoing question throughout this whole thing. Does the AFL have a contract with each team that states that every team will do everything in it's power to win each and every match it plays in? Does that mean they'll fine clubs for sending injured players off to surgery if they look like they won't make finals? It's not as simple as saying 'we tried to lose', it's about the intent as opposed to the action. The action in this circumstance actually helps us in the Richmond game. We could never have orchestrated a kick after the siren. If we'd been beaten by 12 goals thats a whole other issue. Can you be guilty of thinking something benefits you that the league put in place? Did we think we wanted to lose? How can you prove a thought from a legal perspective? And for those of you who say the club shouldn't seek legal action against the AFL I genuinely think if the fine is large they should consider it. Imagine if the Government created a system and then private enterprise took advantage of the system for long term gain instead of short term thinking? We'd call that great foresight. I think the AFL knows it made a mistake, but I think they don't know how to fix it. This is far more their issue in my opinion than it is any one clubs. If the MFC bears the brunt of it I'm going to go ballistic.

She obviously gets paid to write a minimum article a week over the off season and she threw this together in about 15 minutes. If the MFC does face sanctions over this then it will get really ugly for the AFL. All of a sudden your implicating 4-8 possible other clubs and they would then need to investigate and act accordingly. And what would it mean for the club? We'd struggle to get any sponsors involved and it would put the AFL under more financial pressure as they'd have to prop us up for exploiting a system that they put in place. It just seems like they'd be crazy to make a spectacle of this. The Tippett thing is an obvious breaking of the rules. What happened with Melbourne is murky and only gets murkier if we get sanctioned. It's lose lose. If we were a better side you could argue that we took advantage but if anything it's obvious that we haven't taken advantage. You just have to watch Rounds 1-23 of 2012 to see that.

I think the only reasonable way to look at it is that the club gets an F for its performance this year on field. Now we got rid of 15 players, only 1 of which was a regular player in a terrible team by the end of the season (Rivers). We replaced them with a couple of premiership players, 2 of the most exciting young players in the land (about to be 3 come draft day), and added a few bigger bodies to support a list that is still very young and developing. But somehow we are expected to stick to the same plan that got us the F? I'd say we deserve a B+ for being proactive and making changes.

With the exception of Rivers (who if you watch the games in hindsight clearly suggested to the club he was leaving) all of those players couldn't get a game for large parts of a season in which we won 1 game against an established club. 1 game! You can make an argument for Liam Jurrah but with what he's facing why would you want to? Seriously folks. We won 1 serious game for the year. I find it amazing that anyone's concerned if we trade 90% of our list. They've shown they aren't up to it.

Some of you need to calm down. We have a culture of losing and of thinking that it's ok because we'll be good in 3 years when we get enough games into everyone. Well guess what b*tches? Not anymore. We've shown we will be ruthless. We've shown that we know we made mistakes in the passed. What did we lose? 2 experienced FA's that were always going to leave, and some skinny guys that couldn't get in our best 22 when we had 12 injuries and were losing by 10 goals plus each week. What did we gain? Bigger bodies, forward speed, and folks who have been there and done that. I'm so tired of Melbourne supporters bagging the club because they haven't recruited properly yet wringing their hands when we dare do something about it. The times they are a changin.

It's time we moved on from the potential of kids and started trying something else. For those of you who keep rabbiting on about Gysberts potential feel free to leave your cell phone numbers here and in 2 years when he is our new Cale 'The Rake' Morton I'll call you and scream down the line. This is a deal that's about a continuing culture change. It's about time we did something.

Just playing devils advocate here, but how is this any different to when Cam Bruce left? Just because we have a name for it (Free Agency) does that make us more accepting of a player leaving for a better contract and walking from the club?

Agreed. And for those of you concerned about what may happen in 4 years time because of this draft don't be too worried. Trenners and Watts will only be 25 and Viney 22 and they'll all have learned how to lead the new blokes coming through. Well done Demons. Great job to date.

Well done Dees! Added structure, enormous potential, pace and 2 premiership players in the last 2 weeks. We are getting the October we had to have.

While the forward line looks more competitive we still need 1-2 midfielders that can help us maintain possession. I have concerns about Trengove's speed and spread and he and Grimes need to be getting 25+ each week to be at AFL standard. I'd like us to add someone to help with that. I think its fascinating to watch midfielders decision making at trade time. Those in demand are looking hard at whose in their midfield 'team' as they are aware of how important that structure is. We have really struggled to get anyone even half interested in us. I think it shows how poor we've been in there in 2012.

I think some of the naysayers are ignoring the structure of our game plan. Dawes is there to fill a role that suits our contested line kicking, and you'd argue that Byrnes was brought in for the same reason. We can't keep kicking to Clark 4 on 1 and hoping he clunks it. I think Mitch will be delighted when the deal gets done and Shannon Byrnes will be happy too. To compare him to Sellar is a poor comparison. Only this year has Dawes done much more ruck work as a result of the change in the way his team played. He's been a specialist forward until this year. It's also very widely reported that hes played for 2 years with damaged hands as his team needed him as the pushed for a top 2 spot. If he gets those right he could be anything, but what he definitely is is a big body that's ready to compete this year and in case you missed seasons 2008-2012 boy do we need that.

I still think the 'Bring back Juice Newton' post tops this, but it's a pretty close race in a very densely populated field.

Gerald Healy, Greg Williams, Tony Locket, Peter Everett and Barry Hall disagree. I love the Swans attitude and culture but every year after the Grand FInal the story revolving around the teams involved is about how do they afford to keep the group together. Geelong players took less money to stay as a group and got flags out of it. This year the Swans look set to sign the best available tall in the game. Can't see how thats fair after winning a flag with an extra mil to spend.

Back on topic: I think what the game tells us is that Neeld is onto something in theory. But coaching isn't judged solely on theory. it's about making it work and that can only happen if the players buy in and put in. Honestly I think there was only one way Sydney could have won on the weekend and they pulled it off. That shows they followed through and worked hard. I've never seen a team tackle like they did on Saturday. There is 25 examples of extraordinary tackling. We don't have a list of hard workers like the Swans. That team committed to competing at every opportunity. We showed all year that we didn't want to do that. Part of it was buy in - it was obvious that some players didn't want to do it Neeld's way (Beamer) and it only takes 1 to not do it before 4-5 don't do it and it breaks down massively. The other part is execution and I think we don't have the midfield numbers or experience yet. The unfortunate thing is that the club also lacks the leaders required to pull everyone up to that level. It's going to take extraordinary on and off field leadership for us to get to that level.

Finals would have been better if Geelong didn't coast against Freo and actually showed up. Freo and Adelaide in Melbourne finals doesn't help, and Adelaide fans don't want to pay to go to finals apparently. The lack of competitiveness from us and the Doggies, Richmond and Carlton's demise (they are fickle supporters), and obviously the expansion teams all effected the regular season. I will say that I went to the GF and the whole experience was amazing. The crowd was phenomenal, both teams played well and the skills were outstanding given the pressure and conditions. I think the AFL is doing ok overall. Fox Footy is great to catch up on games you can't watch live during the weekend (or get to). I do wish the league would stop trying to make Grand Final day about anything but footy. I don't need bands for the other 26 weeks of the year. If they must do something on the day focus on the highlights of the year and the people that play the game at every level. Friends of mine watched in the US and they couldn't believe how great it was to see young kids give the Swans their medals. We have a good thing going thats built on involvement and inclusiveness and the more the day is about that the better the atmosphere and the better the experience.

I'm confused as to why anyone thinks this wouldn't be his low. He's a Melbourne supporter so he's seen us play. I love the club and went to every game I could get to but this year we were terrible 90% of the time. Not below average - terrible. The bigger issue is that the list cull we all thought must be on the cards is looking less likely with each passing day as nobody wants to play for us. The real low might be that we have to hold on to players that aren't up to it just to keep a full list. If we can get Lynch, 2 experienced mids and Viney plus another ready to go kid we can get better but I would think that living on the Gold Coast and surfing in the afternoons looks like a lot better than playing for us. Sheahan is right, and thats why it hurts.

Wonder how happy Dane Swan is now knowing that Jolly robbed him of any chance this year? He'll walk from Collingwood for money once his contract is up.

Did you watch that game? Bennell and Ablett should have got 3 and 2. Without them we would have won by 200 points.

What needs to happen to fix this is that AFL needs to allow Foxtel to televise their own broadcast of the same game. 7 has no competition so they treat their audience like fools. Just by allowing competition they'll have to lift their game. I also LOVE the idea of a broadcast without commentary with just crowd noise. I wish Foxtel would bring that back.

Did I miss something about Caddy? A lot of what I've heard is that Essendon are the front runners as they are his first choice.

All I know for sure is that 90% of the posts on this thread make a 17 year old kid sound like the second coming. I hope for his sake that the young bloke is as good as some hope he is. Fortunately we've had a stellar run with high draft picks called Jack. They've all lived up to their potential so far :-/