Ouch!

I don't have a problem with Garland remaining on the list. How different is it to Bernie Vince and his one year contract. Both would have been told that there are no guarantees of seniors, and why not set them both the task of 'development roles' with our younger players at Casey. If they get games due to form or injury, then good on them! That's what depth on your list is all about. As to the argument of him taking a rookie's spot, Meh! Rookie picks are speculative at best, we know what we get with Garland, Vince... as we did with Trengove this year. I'm very comfortable having a couple of veteran players. If we need a place for a senior listed player (either via trade period or wanting to take a set number of players in the draft) and they negotiate an outcome for both parties that is mutually beneficial then great, but that would probably be unlikely as we will trade out some players as well...

Don't have a problem with this. He won't play too much through the midfield, unless we require a tagger, I would like to see him playing forward rather than back as he is decent shot on goal. He would be aware there is a good chance of playing for Casey, ie no guarantees of seniors!.

Was about to say the same thing.... I can't see why the club, in this case the captain, would be going public about Watts if it was about to put him on the trade table. Fire him up now, prior to the pre-season to make sure 2018 is as good as it can be!

.... should have been what Gawn said to Scully in China! (which makes this hypothetical about Gawn to GWS slightly amusing!

Not shooting the messenger, but we lose Gawn for Lever? There would need to be bit more coming back than that you would think. Also what doesn't make sense to me is that whilst I agree runners in the midfield is the way things are heading, why GWS who, if we are completely honest, have way too many quality talls to fit in already. GWS looked a lot better without Mumford and Cameron in their side.... ie more run and more unpredictable. They have Patton, Simpson and Lobb as well. They seem to be playing Lobb out of position up forward, and they don't look right with Lobb, Cameron, Patton and Mumford in their team. Why add Gawn? TBH the main thing I am taking out of any of these conversations is that we still need to turn over some of the list, and that the club is looking at all options.

I think I'll be disappointed if we have to part ways with Watts or Salem if it is only part of trying to secure Lever, however if the MFC has greater plans and are trying to secure some other players, Gaff or ... whoever it is @ Geelong that people are speculating on, and in order to do that we need to release some of talent on our list then I might be up for that. It will be about the sum of the gains / losses

I think he still has some improvement in him, and hopefully next year he takes another step. I don't think it was a terrible year, but like many of our players he struggled late in the season and certainly after his injury he didn't come back strongly.

You are speculating that he is a first round pick. The link below indicates that they have to be in the top 5% of earners across the AFL and be over 25 years of age.... I'd be amazed if Gaff is in that bracket... I doubt he is in the top 5% at WC. http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-10-07/revealed-what-it-takes-to-earn-firstround-free-agency-compensation- Tom Mitchell was effectively traded for pick 14 and (swap of 3rd round picks), Brad Hill was a second round pick. Hoskin-Elliot was a second round pick as a guide to what happened last year. Even Dangerfield the year before was 9, 28 and a speculative player in return for Danger and pick 50.

I know a lot of people comment that he is a downhill skier, but if you are not receiving the ball from your inside mids to feed it out to you.... you kinda look like a downhill skier don't you? I'd be very happy if the MFC were interested in getting Gaff back to Melbourne. Again whether we can satisfy the needs of Adelaide and West Coast if we are into Lever.

Don't agree,... completely I think Kent, Spencer, JKH, etc .... they all have some 'currency', others such as Kennedy perhaps not as much. I still think that Trenners could get a place @ another club,... but thats just a left field guess!

I'm still nervous, only cos I think Collingwood needs a player like Lever even more than us, and they are very keen also. Hopeful that we get him, but it's not over the line methinks

Is there a role for a player like JT at another club that might need some leadership and a strong body in and under? We probably had better options already for the place that he was best suited to playing, and I think Goodwin was trying to find other roles for Trengove to play for us, but he was never quite suited to them... I wonder whether a club like Gold Coast or Freo could take a punt with a low draft pick, even the Hawks who are able to identify players that others have passed over might see something that we might not. He still has good foot skills, and he's not going to cost the earth.

Can't bring myself to respond to other posts in this thread, although I've skimmed them. I am gutted like everyone on this board and all MFC supporters. I can only imagine (and hope) that all people at the club are equally if not more despondent as a result of what has happened this year. Its now up to the leaders of the club at all levels to review the year, and pick up the pieces and make sure that our failure to make finals burns within the club. With that said, we need list changes to occur, but pointing fingers at any of the players is pointless, there seems to be a consensus of trust in Jason Taylor and Todd Vineys efforts so far in recruiting and trading, I suspect they have an even better understanding of our deficiencies and will act accordingly. Looking at the clubs who made the 8..., seeing Essendon, Port and West Coast playing finals ahead of us, and knowing that on our day we could also take it up to Adelaide, Geelong and Richmond, it bloody hurts!!! Now just knowing how games such as the one against Freo, both Nth games and the Hawks game cost us not just a spot in the eight, but lets be honest a top 4 spot. Stupid suspensions hurt, Hogans injuries affected us, but allowed us to uncover TMac as a forward, and then just seeing how players like Hunt, Petracca and Salem faded in the second half of the year. Even Watts after the injury wasn't the same, but was a solid contributor prior to that game.... I still have optimism about 2018, and I think we still improved over last year, but 2017 was a failed season, and even if we had managed to sneak into the 8 yesterday, we are not in form and Port would have done a number on us I suspect.

Great poll! I put undecided for the second question only because at the start of the year I think 12 wins and I and many here would have been pretty happy with that, and see it as an indication that the list and club as a whole has improved. That said, I completely agree with people saying that we are currently 7th and losing this week when we have our finals destiny completely in our own hands, and to lose would mean failure from where we are currently positioned is equally justifiable.

Relax! We've got this. Dees by 62, Hogan, Gawn and Harmes 3 each.

I'm a lot more confident about this week than I was against the Saints. Brisbane are playing well, but other than the 8 point win against the bombers in round 15, they have not done a lot, and they are 18th on the ladder for a reason. They do have some good talent on their list and Beams is playing well, but it Goodwin has the boys focused on this week there should not be too much concern getting over the top of them, they've played only once @ the MCG this year and were pretty easily beaten by the Pies... It's in their interest to play kids, throw the team around and conjure up 'honorable' losses and with another dip at the draft they should be primed to go in 2018.

Do you legitimately think that Richmond will drop their last two against the Saints and Dockers? That looks like you are attempting to do one of two things... 1) Manufacture a huge MCG clash between Tigers and Dees in week one of the finals... if thats the case Kudos for trying! 2) Attempting as hard as you can to try and push the Tigers down to 9th place... in which case even more Kudos!!

Can't see the crows being that concerned about us that they would drop a game against the bombers just to prevent us, as a misfiring team, from making the eight. Swans, Giants, Dogs, Richmond would be more of a concern at this point of the season.

What?

We got smashed by a team, most thought would be the clear favourite for the flag this year in a 15 minute patch that the commentators were stating was almost an unstoppable patch of football. We went in as underdogs and didn't end up winning. The game against Nth hurt us no doubt, but knowing the ground fairly well, the weather and the conditions of that ground are a massive factor, and Nth know the conditions better than us, should we have won? probably, but it was always a danger game for us, and seeing how they played against the Pies this week makes it all the more painful

I'm just chuffed to have you respond to my post ET haha!

Was purely putting out there as a hypothetical, I think Tom is a better player (due to age and experience now) than perhaps Lever is currently, but Lever has the upside in the long run. I guess it depends on whether our window is still 1-2 years away and Adelaide is firmly there now.... However if we managed for instance to effect a trade... lets say TMac for Lever, with some loose change exchanging hands. Allowing us to keep a first round pick to target someone else... knowing that Adelaide is potentially more open to the idea with Lever and possibly McGovern leaving... the currency for a swingman like TMac is more desirable, and we might get better value in the trade. I was being mischievous and I am tired of seeing posts where we are trying to 'lure' a quality player away from other clubs for what amounts to peanuts. We will have to give up something good to get Lever. Look at the Hibberd trade, how many people screamed about giving up what was it a second round pick? We clearly won out on that trade!

Thanks for the clarification on the 1st rounders, I know I will get shot down for such a thought, given how he has performed this year, but is Tom McDonald an untouchable in our team?

If the talk is that the difference in salaries between what Vic clubs would offer and what the crows have on the table is around $300k, then it stands to reason that the offers in front of Lever are around $800k - $900k which would make him one of our highest paid players on our list. Just a couple of thoughts,.... doesn't the MFC have to use a first round pick this year? We might have to work with some of the currency that we have on our list, which possibly at the moment would be players like ANB, Kent, JKH, Stretch, Frost, Spencer and possibly Trengove. I have no idea what Adelaide needs, apart from a mid that can help chop out and help Sloane some more. If they lose McGovern and Lever, they would want a tall also... Given that it is reported to be a deep and even draft, a player that can slot into their side immediately, a pick upgrade or two and a 1st rounder of some form should be enough...

Where's Tom Mitchell in the betting odds? racked up a lot of stats, albeit in a team that has lost a lot of games.