Ouch!

.... please stop with the crap! he's a fringe player at the team that was in the bottom 4. Balic is untried, and has been bought into the team for Depth. No need to compare him with Watts, stupid comment to make!

Just remember Nth had an offer in front of Kelly and Martin rumoured to be 1mil-1.2mil over 5+ years.

He won't be involved in anything at Collingwood until after this trade period. Guy has already said Lever is at the MFC. Not too much to worry about.

I'd advise you not to look in the Jack Watts thread....

I thought the Geelong model was no one earns more than the Captain??

Jade Rawlings, Nick Stevens, Luke Ball (.... almost) Lever can say he wants Melbourne all he likes, until the point that it breaks down and he heads to the draft. If it falls through and he goes to the draft, other clubs only have to match his asking price. Nth Melbourne and the Saints would be able to easily cover Levers asking price. Saints don't need his type, so might be fine, but Nth need to plug a huge number of holes everywhere on their list. Collingwood would not be too far off getting him and have a pick too and a need for his type as well. Going to the draft is a very big risk for Lever and the MFC and Adelaide get nothing. Doesn't work for any party!

In terms of the threat of Lever going into the draft, lets not forget that Nth hold pick 3, and have stupid amounts of money that they were using to try and get Martin and Kelly. They are not a destination club, but they can certainly match our financial offer to Lever if the draft is the way it heads...

I think I'll be disappointed if we have to part ways with Watts or Salem if it is only part of trying to secure Lever, however if the MFC has greater plans and are trying to secure some other players, Gaff or ... whoever it is @ Geelong that people are speculating on, and in order to do that we need to release some of talent on our list then I might be up for that. It will be about the sum of the gains / losses

I'm just chuffed to have you respond to my post ET haha!

Was purely putting out there as a hypothetical, I think Tom is a better player (due to age and experience now) than perhaps Lever is currently, but Lever has the upside in the long run. I guess it depends on whether our window is still 1-2 years away and Adelaide is firmly there now.... However if we managed for instance to effect a trade... lets say TMac for Lever, with some loose change exchanging hands. Allowing us to keep a first round pick to target someone else... knowing that Adelaide is potentially more open to the idea with Lever and possibly McGovern leaving... the currency for a swingman like TMac is more desirable, and we might get better value in the trade. I was being mischievous and I am tired of seeing posts where we are trying to 'lure' a quality player away from other clubs for what amounts to peanuts. We will have to give up something good to get Lever. Look at the Hibberd trade, how many people screamed about giving up what was it a second round pick? We clearly won out on that trade!

Thanks for the clarification on the 1st rounders, I know I will get shot down for such a thought, given how he has performed this year, but is Tom McDonald an untouchable in our team?

If the talk is that the difference in salaries between what Vic clubs would offer and what the crows have on the table is around $300k, then it stands to reason that the offers in front of Lever are around $800k - $900k which would make him one of our highest paid players on our list. Just a couple of thoughts,.... doesn't the MFC have to use a first round pick this year? We might have to work with some of the currency that we have on our list, which possibly at the moment would be players like ANB, Kent, JKH, Stretch, Frost, Spencer and possibly Trengove. I have no idea what Adelaide needs, apart from a mid that can help chop out and help Sloane some more. If they lose McGovern and Lever, they would want a tall also... Given that it is reported to be a deep and even draft, a player that can slot into their side immediately, a pick upgrade or two and a 1st rounder of some form should be enough...

Just confirming this is referring to players in the backline? because in terms of top draft picks, and players who should be 'elite' I find it hard to swallow that we don't have enough elite players...?

.... can we start the footy season again? I didn't think I'd say it, but I am questioning why we even play test cricket, the players all say it's the epitome of the game, and the purest version of the game, but they get paid more to be playing for franchises, it's less stressful on their bodies, and it's a bigger and better spectacle for the crowds. surely those facts alone suggest that test cricket is dead... I have almost 0% interest in it these days.

Tend to agree, and what else it provides is depth. I don't recall to many times in the last 5-6 years where we can say that we had 3-5 players that could be considered unlucky not to get a game for the seniors. This year ANB, Grimes and latter in the year Trengove... possibly Michie, White, Newton, Garland, Dunn and the like that were getting games although NOT knocking the door down to be selected who can't get a game now even when in form. I see the role that Hibberd can play, Melksham too, but we are accumulating a lot of half back flankers that can run and take on the game. In the past though, we haven't had a lot that delivered the ball well...

Hi Sue, You are correct, my words were trying to infer intent of the players to do something illegal from the outset. I suspect that the players knew things would have been 'right on the edge' they were asked to buy in as a group to the program and to keep it to themselves. But at this point .... if the players were told to keep things from the doctors of the clubs, how this DIDN"T raise alarm bells with any players, or how any of the coaching staff didn't get wind of this is astounding. Further on from this when ASADA began to investigate, the players withholding information could have been as much to do with fear (still not a valid excuse) as much as anything. Bottom line if they don't think they did anything wrong with the program and didn't think it was illegal, why wouldn't you tell ASADA in the regular tests etc in regards to supplements, it doesn't make any sense. But then again, none of this does.

Well Said Fifty-5, My take on this whole thing.. Essendon, at the end of 2011 wanted to be stronger and fitter and wanted a program that in a highly competitive competition that was cutting edge and gave them an advantage over other teams. They got it horribly wrong, and the players unwittingly or not got caught up in it. Fact of the matter is that players are responsible for what goes into their bodies and regardless of the idea of 'team mentality'/peer pressure. I feel sorry for the players (and their families) because I don't believe any of them 'intentionally' wanted to be taking enhancing drugs and to work outside of the drugs code. But not asking questions is not an excuse either. The penalty is harsh, but fair. I just wish the AFL and Essendon had approached this whole thing in a better way than the arrogance stance that saw them try to control the situation and contrive an outcome which spun out of their control, and caused this wreck. In terms of players coming back, they have their penalty, they serve it, and then they should be free to being able to play again, I would like a bit more humility or contrition as Fifty-5 has said, but that might come with time. I also think some people read too much into the drug cheat label also... If these players are serious about wanting to play and move past this, you would think that they would be prime candidates for assisting with drug and education programs in sport/schools etc.. Plenty of people have stuffed up their lives in one form or another, it's how you learn from the mistakes that defines you and makes you better. These players do deserve that opportunity equally as much as they deserve the punishment that's in front of them currently.

I know who his Grandfather is, but I swear I saw somewhere that Sam was a Richmond supporter... I could also be completely off my nut as well.

why's that? you hoping for footage, and then staggered that the MFC didn't consider her with pick 3?

http://www.news.com.au/national/afl-phantom-draft-2014-jay-clark-and-sam-landsberger-predict-who-your-club-will-pick/story-e6frfkp9-1227132256899 The HS has also gone with McCartin going at 1, and Petracca and Brayshaw coming to us at 2 & 3.

It's interesting that an article on the AFL site today has a quote with regards to who the saints will pick, Finnis says the only instruction he has for the recruiting department is that they should pick a player with the next 10 years in mind. In terms of the Saints, Petracca will give them an immediate boost in the next few years, but I think that the longer term view would be McCartin for the saints. Also saw that they mentioned that if they go with Petracca then they need to realise that they will need to stump up at least 500k for a quality forward in the future. (Given what happened with Boyd and Franklin over the last couple of years) TBH I don't think we can really lose out here, and neither can the saints really given that they drafted strongly last year with their midfielders and can afford to go with McCartin if they have an eye for the future. Looking forward to how it plays out on Thursday!!

I agree Redleg, I actually think that its a positive thing that Jack has tested the market (as such) and has chosen to stay loyal to us. It says a fair bit about the direction PJ and Roos have put the club upon, and hopefully if we get Sylvia signing too. Bit different than this time last year when we lost/let go several players and most seemed pretty disillusioned. Compare this to what is going on with Brisbane and their players all apparently wanting to leave, do any of us feel remorse/regret for their players given they have no coach, a board in crisis etc. ... if any of you are like me, you are hoping that there is a way we might be able to snag one of their players.

Problem with that strategy is if Mick Malthouse says here is a 3 or 4 year contract. Roos and the club have to show that they want Watts to stay and that he has value here. A two year contract based upon performance doesn't say that... and most performance contracts would be based on numbers of games played... not 1%-ers and tackles etc.

I agree that the AFL needs us to be competitive, but what exactly can they OR their man do? They cannot give us more money to offer these guys, they can't change the minds of the players or the other clubs in expressing interest in them... Only thing is to sell a vision to convince these players to stay...

I think I know where you are going, but a little fuzzy so bear with me. IF GC want in on a 17yr old then they need to keep pick 2 up their sleeve, they don't want to be required to trade that out to secure Tippett. In order to put a deal to Adelaide IF Tippett looks like leaving then they need to be able to put a pick on the table that trumps what Brisbane might have to offer. Finally if Melbourne wants to be able to secure Caddy then they won't want to be spending pick 3 on Viney, however if the cost of Viney looks more like a second round pick then we might be more 'open' to becoming a player to assist facilitating things for Adelaide and GC... Obviously we are not just talking pick 4 here, but looking at some player options still from Adelaide and GC, and possible exchange of picks as appropriate to secure a favourable outcome for all parties. GC is going to find us less willing to assist if they try and force our hand on Viney. Am I close?