Demon Dynasty

Has anyone noticed when we kick goals the ump is rarely involved. I'm talking most matches.....not just this one

Yep....Watts across half back to clean up the disposals "FORWARD" of play as first option which he is good at. Get the pill moving forward as quickly as possible to put the opposition under pressure and create opportunities with run and carry. Howe up forward to take the odd specky and kick a goal or two

This is a given when playing any interstate team and has been for years. The umps tend to always ensure the home team has at least a 3 to 4 goal lead going into the break.....then ease off a little in the 2nd half to make things look more respectable.

The player tackling should never be awarded a free kick once he loses his feet and goes to ground beside or on top of the guy who got the ball first. The tackler MUST keep his feet to be awarded holding the ball IMO. Once the 3rd man enters the contest it should be automatic ball up....never holding the ball.

I don't have fox but for me it sounds like we are falling down again up forward both in contested marking capability and once the ball hits the deck. They seem to get it way too often without anough pressure or any crumbers on our part

Thats because you have seen their last quarter performance......wait for it !! Anything to get Port over the line

His mental well being may not be so well after playing a match with this current line up in its present form... Dawesy included. Although saying that, i'm forgetting the quality of the delivery inside 50... amazing stuff indeed. I have pity on any forward trying to perform with our disorganised and horribly skilled mids and half backs atm. I watched one passage over the weekend, i think it might have been out on the full or a free kick forward of the wing to us, kicking to the city end on the northern side. An ideal set up i50 opened up straight after the free with most opposition players running forward of the ball not expecting the turnover. With an open forward line of only Dawesy and Howe (and maybe one other who i can't recall) in open space. Yet as usual, instead of moving/kicking the ball quickly to a one on one Dawes on the lead or maybe deep to Howe for the overhead speckie (both of whom would have had a good chance of out marking their opponent), our player sat behind the mark for what seemed like forever as our mids proceeded to run straight towards the goals (no not out wide or away from the hot zone) and inside 50, filling much of the open spaces, and dragging their direct opponents with them into the same areas....space/time and opportunity lost. By the time we took our kick it was all over red rover and nothing came of our entry. In fact i could be wrong as i was so discusted with this piece of play i have a funny feeling the ball was rebounded out of our forward 50 into the Cats 50 for an easy goal on the rebound! Examples like the above happen far too often to be an accident IMO and we presently don't have one weapon that i can think of (both as a team and individually...ie., speed across the ground, quick accurate ball movement through a press by foot, amazing contested marks up forward, busy skilled crumbers up forward that can kick snap goals, a clearance winning mid field, an amazing outside skillful running team that can deliver accurately by foot or kick long goals from around 50, a tackling machine that will wear the opponent down over say 3 quarters and work their ass off to kick a winning score, a dangerous multi pronged goal kicking forward line etc etc) that will worry the opposition or force them to play accountable footy where they are unable to continually play off and forward/lateral of their opponent (ie., us) on the spread as soon as they get any sniff that they're about to win a contested ball. There is just nothing inspiring at all in this present line up that i can see that will see us become anything other than what we are right now....absolutely horrid. Sure, we might see marginal improvements from certain individuals as the years go by but nothing that will make a big enough difference to see us playing finals footy on a regular basis. The club just needs to keep recruiting and turning over many players each year (at least a dozen or more if possible this year) until we finally fill up the gaping holes, which are unfortunately, all over the park .... with a few exceptions. Even then i just can't see us attracting the sort of caliber player we would need to in order to turn this around. Especially given the AFL's expansion agenda which is sucking the talent away from the poorer Vic clubs like us (yep i include Skully in this....he would be a reasonably handy fill in for Cross right about now and def a better option than Bail/Nicho/Tappy/M Jones long term). Subject to some sort of amazing miracle recruiting coup in the next 2 to 3 years, If Roosy can't turn this around by then (assuming he's still about) ....we are all but buggered.

Nutbean the game was well and truly over at half time. Pretty much any half decent team knows that they will always outscore us relatively easy in the first half of a match if they put their foot down early on and go really hard at our obsessive lateral/backwards possession game in defence and across the middle of the ground when we do occasionally hit targets there. They know we are so poor at finding our way up the ground by foot, with so many clanger turnovers, that once ahead by a decent margin early (say 5 to 6 goals or so) they probably relax a touch in the second half knowing we are a non-threat and at any stage they can turn up the wick again if we do happen to get it under 4 goals or so. That's how easy we are to beat atm. The thing is we might be ok at defending in our back half and to a lessor degree through the middle when we have our "ideal" player set-up and structure (ie., very few key players out injured, like Cross, and most in very good form like Vince, Jones and Tyson). Some of these guys able to push back and help out in defence to rebound (Vince and Tyson were very good at this earlier in the year).However, most teams know they will also win the majority of center clearances against us fairly easily. I don't believe even the best defence in the league would handle the amount of ball that comes into our defensive 50 week after week. The bulk of the game is played in "our defensive half". There's very little overlap style gut running and quick 'play on' from our guys compared to most clubs as they seem unable or unwilling to play forward of their opponent, possibly because they don't have much faith that the next player will more than likely beat his opponent or that the guy who has the ball is likely to get accurate disposals to them for the receive...who knows? So we also don't stretch or tire out our opponents as much as other clubs by making them chase us up the field. We continually play a stop start very slow ball movement style game, giving the opponent a nice easy jog to their next set up/wall up the field or on the mark while we take forever. As you know we often just can't hit a target anyway, resulting in a turnover in the worst places on the ground and easy goals from turnovers again and again. In short we might be fairly good at defending given the number of times the ball comes into our defensive 50, but we are also very easily defended against at the wrong end of the ground (for us), namely through the middle where the walls are built and even down back with weight of numbers as our backs get worn down with the continual entries. We will lkeep getting smashed by anyone outside of the bottom 6 until we can find.... 1. Some new on ball tallent who (collectively with say Jones, Cross, Tyson, Vince) can win more clearances than our opposition on a regular basis (Edit: in future years this should include Viney of course) 2. One or two pacey/agile outside runners who can spread and deliver the ball lace out on a regular basis coming i50 (eg Burgoyne/Pendels types) 3. At least two pacey running players off HB who can also use the ball and hit targets on a dime (eg Shaw/Malceski types) 4. A decent lead up forward who can receive the good work from up the field and kick clutch goals (Buddy/Hawkins types... Hogan maybe ? ). 5. A decent alternative overhead mark as an alternative to the lead up forward so we can go deep if the lead is shut down (Roughhead/Cloke types) 6. A very quick, agile, classy crumber who knows where to get to to take advantage of the spills off the deep forward entries to the overhead target (Cyril/Milne types...JKH maybe?) Can i see us finding the above anytime soon (ie., within the next 5 to 10 years) given the way the AFL has sucked the lessor clubs dry with the new start ups (priority picks etc), the AFL rigged fixture, our pitiful performances in the last decade etc? Well, failing a minor Roos driven miracle, that would be a big fat nope i'm afraid.

Really guys? I seriously hope i don't see him at all this year and they wrap him in cotton wool, getting him back to 110% fitness between now and pre season. With our luck, if he does play his first game later this year, he'd likely go down in a screaming heap with some freak of an accident like a broken ankle, something only the MFC seems to be able to pull from the mire with anyone looking like they might be a potential superstar. A full pre season to gain some extra strength, fitness and confidence in his bod and offer some hope to the others who might be left to play with him next year if he makes it. A full clean out of most of the present list at year's end... ie., pretty much a new "Roos" derived list for 2015 to begin the new rebuild of a rebuild of a rebuild (and yes i realise this would take more than one pre season, but hey, at this point Roos wont be there to coach in the 3rd year....ughh)......and....you never know....we might finally see a new side playing consistent AFL standard footy. Who knows, we might then start kicking a half decent score that might worry the opposition a few more times than the 4 we've seen so far. Regardless, i would be extremely surprised (and dissapointed) if Roos made such a dumb decision as to play him for one or 2 matches later this year given where Hulk is coming from injury wise and the present state (losing mentality) of this group. If he does, it would be for purely selfish reasons and not in the short or long term interests of Hogan IMO.

You mean he's coming back before the season's out to be on the receiving end of our magnificent forward 50 entry work!!??

I agree with you on the 10 or more.... but only on the more part. The list is so devoid of decent AFL talent it will take a monumental clean out over the next 2 pre season drafts to even make us competitive with teams up to about 8th or so on the ladder. Anything less will simply see us playing "marginally" more competitive footy for maybe 6 to 8 wins at best but never making the finals. The time has come to move most of this list on. We've pretty much ran through the entire list so far this season and with a few exceptions like JKH/Kent/Salem showing glimmers of hope and Tyson/Viney/Vince starring early and in patches, we've seen very little from anyone else other than the half dozen seniors who turn up most weeks.

Thats about 50 minutes more than I watched or listened to. We are just too predictably average and ordinary against anyone outside the bottom 6 and have been for 7 years now... Tigers and Bombers the only exceptions for some reason.

He's a paid up apologist/spruiker for the AFL/Umpiring fraternity. So bland and predictable, I dont actually hear or take in anything he says anymore. Was a good leader and solid player on field but as a special comments guy he completely sucks

The time for excuses is surely over. We've been dishing up nonsense excuses like this getting close to almost a decade now. Other teams travel every other week and still find a way to win a decent share of games both at home and consecutive "away" games. The basic factor here is what Old Dee reminds us every other week.... the majority on the list is just not AFL capable. Most are VFL standard at best.

I would normally agree with you and ive been a Roos stalwart from day one...but no matter what level you coach...no matter the team sport .... the worst thing you can tell any player is "you cant play" which is effectively what he said in the presser. You might think that... you might give a spray to relevant player/s and/or constructive criticism, but you never actually come out and say that to them.Massive confidence sapper and thats exactly what we're seeing. A team completely devoid of any confidence with a few usual die hards giving their all as its in their blood to not lie down (eg Viney)

As I said at the start of the year...there's only about 8 AFL level players I would persevere with from the present list. Roos has also killed off any confidence the group may have had after his "teach them how to play AFL, club is strapped for cash" etc comments a few weeks back. Watching a little of the trianing in the week leading up to the Dockers match, they looked rudderless and that is how theyve played since. Roos is the coach.... he is there to get them up each week but atm failing badly. Not much on the park to work with but hasn't helped his cause of late and is in danger of losing most of the group. Stating the obvious but massive clean out looming at years end

There is actually no holding the ball rule even though the umps sometimes refer to it as that in their call... as far as i understand it is incorrect disposal. Strict adherance to this rule and there will be more throws/incorrect disposals paid. This equals many more frees being paid and congestion being cleared after the free kick instead of "another" maul being potentially formed as more players get around the contest and attempt to close the ball in for another throw up/stoppage.. Throwing has now become an art form amongst most AFL clubs and players. The game is now unrecognisable from the style and intent that AFL was and is meant to be played from roughly 5 to 6 years back and certainly isn't the AFL i grew up watching through the 70s, 80's, 90's and early to mid 2000s. Ditto red eye. I can no longer watch other AFL games of football and am slowly turning my eye to the round ball and also more intensily towards NFL from here. Both sports are rarely tampered with by the rule makers and you know exactly what the rules are most weeks, with some minor tinkering by the NFL once in a blue moon. No need to watch replays. This is part of the game now. Just watch the disposal/throw with one hand by Liberatore when being tackled by Viney as he lay on his back with about 3 minutes to go in the last quarter against the Doggies. 3 umpires and 2 boundaries around the ball and only 2 players involved and "not one" umpire could see a blatent one handed toss lol. Too funny. But unfortunately the game has literally gone to the Dogs! There were 3 critical non-decisions against us in that last 3 minutes against the Doggies.... 1. Vince was clearly held by the guernsey when going for the ball after a ball up 30 meters out directly in front. No penalty. 2. Libba clearly threw/tossed the ball into the air when being tackled by Viney in the Doggy's HFF. 3. Murphy was clearly caught holding the ball running off the defensive square by Barry. Yet the one tiggy touchwood free that was very marginal WAS paid, in the back to a doggies player with the ball in dispute in the middle of the groud just after the last miracle goal by pokeinyourbelly. This is what frustrates fans into turning away from our once great game. I am one of those. After 44 years i'm switching off until i hear they've fixed both the crazy 120 interchange and throwing/tossing/shuffling the ball as well as paying incorrect disposal as it should be paid after any half decent prior opportunity (ie., 2 to 3 steps after taking control of the ball). You can say that again rjay. 120 interchanges (more if you take subs etc into account) and the umps inability/incompetance or unwillingness to pay enough incorrect disposals (frees) for throwing the ball are killing this game, ironically by not paying free kicks as required under the written rules and ensuring further numbers are able to get to the ball and hem the ball in for a further stoppage ie., slowing the game down! This and the fact that we still have all Bomber players (some of whom admitted to taking) who more than likely took banned substances still playing the game 18 months after the drug scandal broke!! They shouldn't even be fielding a team at the moment. The AFL and the game iteslf has now lost all credibility IMO. I will continue to support the club financially but that's it for me. I'm over AFL. I will continue to watch the highlights of our matches and the occasional match but i'm over the rest of the comp. It's just unwatchable now and too frustrating, even when watching two teams i don't follow.

Lol jack....just saw that

I think he does Sylvia, when he can. And that's mostly early into his stint on the ground as i'm not sure his tank is up to AFL level yet. Should improve with 1 or 2 more pre seasons. But he does get into the spaces well early i believe. Just runs out of puff fairly quickly into the 2nd half of matches which impacts his general play. I'm not either BZ but yeh, a slight step up on these 3 IMO. Might not be the answer long term either but i'd rather see him out there developing in the cauldron vs those 3 at present. I still think Terlich is a slim chance of improving his disposal/decision making (preferably at Casey though). At least i hope so. He at least gives us some run off HB at times albeit the disposal decision making often lets him down. I don't hold out much hope for the other 2 though. Seen enough now. And M Jones isn't far behind

Yep...he's Mr 2 Face and has yet to prove he is up to this level once the ball hits the ground or in a one on one aerial dual. Falls over way too easily like a young rooky in his 1st season.. Problem is he aint a young rooky in his 1st season anymore. Personally i would put him out to pasture now....maybe play him 2 out of 3 games, definitely retire him early at season's end as well and tell him to start bulking up and working on his core strength on the off weeks/end of season for the remainder of this season in order to give him a head start into next year. We all know Wattsy doesn't lack or need more 'skill' training. He needs core strength and some brute force/power through the legs in order to win more one on ones/take more contested marks.and work off his opponent when on the lead instead of falling over so often.

I would have a 'developing' Toump in the side anyday over Bail, Nicho or Terlich. He aint gonna learn much at all playing with a very average Casey where the coach is 'rumored' to be at odds with the Roos method. Reads the play well, quite a decent overhead mark, a little on the slow side but is at least a better pass by foot to a lead up player and a much better decision maker/executor than these 3...by a country mile.

Yes mate. Spot on with Bail and Nicho. Neither offer a decent football brain in any situation except if gifted the ball directly in front from 30 meters out. Even then i'd be covering my eyes. The decision making of both players in general play when under little or just perceived pressure is atrocious. Then there's the kicking skills. T MC, Grimes, Bail, Nicho, Terlich and unfortunately a very out of form Garlo's atrocious kicking skills mean we are bound to bleed goals when rebounding out of 50. And we don't win enough center clearances, even against very average opponents, to avoid the ball sailing into our defensive 50 more often than we get it into ours. And dropping JKH after one poor sub result late in the 3rd against the Pies (i think) has to be one of Roosey's worst decisions this year IMO.. Had he been coached better and not been allowed to wander into our backline off the bench and stuff up a few clutch plays he'd probably still be playing instead of Salem/Barry/Kent. And up forward where he's about our only half decent crummer/goal sneak. JKH isn't a great disposal by foot either compared to the ablove and gets very little of the ball but when he does, provided he's played up forward, he sure knows where the goals are.

Guys don't stress too much. Remember the AFL have an agenda and are managing most of these games very carefully along with the rigged fixture. Anyone playing out of shityhad is always going to get a nice ride from the umps vs teams that aren't playing out of there (the start up clubs would be allowed some forgiveness no doubt). We'll never beat many teams based at shityhad unless we get an absolute kick ass team on the field at some point that's at least 4 to 5 goals better than our opponent before the bounce as that's is the advantage they will get (on average) during most matches against non shityhad based teams. Shityhad/AFL need it's 'base' teams to win as much as possible wherever possible.

That's nothing unusual Clint. We've been on the wrong side of the dogies going back to the days big Jimma was rucking. They always get the soft ones when needed at the death nell and anything we deserve is overlooked. Nothing new here

The last time these two teams met the outcome hung in the balance until the last 10 minutes.... Oh Fark.... i just wanna see us win a game at Shitihad once before i die. Just kick this sorry excuse for a club's arse off the park boys would ya! Is that too much for all us long sufferings to ask!!! (How's that grab ya Jack? )