Very Jaded

But they are already in the team, and there is nothing stopping them now from being those targets kicking big numbers every season, least of all Hogan who is dragging away the best defender, sometimes two. Without Hogan those players won't simply get magically better, and none of them are tall enough to be KPFs, except Weids, who again has shown nothing to suggest he can replace Hogan's output now or in the near future. And if you think Hogan doesn't perform in big games, lets talk about the last time Petracca stood up and delivered in a game, any game.

We already get max output from Tmac. Weideman is a total unknown. I have yet to see him do anything at AFL level to suggest he is any good. Petracca is a bigger downhill skier than Hogan. Gawn is a full time ruckman. Will never play enough forward to kick 50. Hannan? Lol. What you're suggesting, is that by getting rid of Hogan we will magically get other players to step up and cover his 50 goals, although even with him in the team taking the best defender, neither Trac nor Weiderman nor Hannan have cracked 30 goals between them in a season.

OK lets say we could trade Hogan for Kelly who is a superstar, who does Kelly kick to up forward? Where do we get 50+ goals a season from? If we trade Hogan, we have to at the very least replace his output like for like, if not better it. If you can find me a KPF Hogan's age who will kick 50+ goals a season, every season, then I'm super open to discuss a trade.

Sure, but some people place far too much importance on the body language of a 22 year old. Imagine if Richmond went "Reiwoldt is a sook, trade him". To be honest, if you went through what he went through last year, you'd be sulking too. It's bloody human nature. And I thought he was very passionate and worked very hard yesterday, even when hampered by the ankle. He missed a few easy shots on goal, but so did Tmac. Should we trade him too? His body language has improved dramatically and it stands to reason that as he matures, so will his demeanour. Again, I want to know who people think we can trade for him that will make us BETTER. Peter Wright has kicked 59 goals since 2015. Hogan has 47 goals this year alone. Please lets not make our list worst.

I'm as [censored] as anyone about our constant failure to deliver under pressure and be a successful club, but trading a young gun KPF is literally the worst solution to our problems. Hogan is performing as well if not better than also any forward his age, both currently and historically. We need to look at making our list better, not worse. I want to know who everyone thinks we could realistically get for Hogan in a trade, who would categorically make us a better team. I am open to suggestions.

Jack Reiwoldt says hello

Agreed. Hennebry got better delivery in our forward 50, than both Hogan and TMac. FML!

Our list, Hogan included, is not the [censored] problem. For once we actually have a good list!!! We have a better list than half the teams currently in the 8. The problem is we are mentally [censored] and we are not well coached.

I lol’ed

The real question is, how can such lovely people (The Brayshaws), be related to that [censored] from North Melbourne?

Don’t think we need to feel sad for Gaff. Andrew is gonna suffer for a long time. A footy suspension is not a big deal in the context of what Andrew is going through. But I understand where you’re coming from.

I think it's good that he has flown in, he isn't playing this week, so why not fly in and actually front up to what you did. It's admirable, and honestly I hope he goes in there, apologises, says what he did was inexcusable, cops his whack and moves on. If West Coast go in there with all guns blazing trying to defend his actions, I'll spew. Cop it, deal with it, show remorse, move on. (Might also be down here to spend time with family, as he is clearly going to be out for a long time)

You're right, we are such a soft society for thinking that punching someone and breaking teeth and jaws is not worthy of severe punishment. We should ease up on domestic violence, one punch strikes and drink driving too. Soft!

He looks like a tinier version of our Gus, which only upsets me more. Glad to see him in good spirits. I'm sure he'll get the best medical care and make a full recovery, although broken jaws and lost teeth is a very nasty long recovery process to endure for anyone, let alone a professional athlete. Not being able to eat solids will no doubt impact negatively on his muscle mass and so forth.

I see what you're suggesting. But in my scenario nobody gets a replacement. You'd have to always carry a spare, like in the days of the sub, on the off chance of a red card.

Correct. Nobody gets to replace a player, not the team who lost a player to the injury (Freo), or the team that lost a player for offending (West Coast).

How so? The player who got hit is out, and the player who hit him, is also out. So each team is a player down.

No substitution. You [censored] up an opposition player, they are out for the game, you are out for the game. Then it's 17 a side, which is fair. My assumption that these red cards will only ever be activated when something extraordinary happens where a player is injured severely enough that there is no doubt they will not return to the field, like in yesterdays game. If someone gets a crude tackle and are getting assessed for concussion, that to me doesn't warrant a red card.

I totally agree with you, and like with anything else, the AFL will [censored] it up no doubt. The tackle on J.Smith is totally different, to someone being hit off the ball. It is an action within a game, and we see that sort of thing happen 100 times a game. If in post match the player is charged with rough conduct, that is a different matter that will need to be analysed by video evidence. I think generally it has to be used for any absolute acts of thuggery which will lead to a suspension beyond any reasonable doubt. So anything that happens off the ball that causes severe injury (not if someone gets a little tummy tap and drops like a sack of [censored] to draw a free), or anything that is done with absolute malice and not within the action of the game. And it should be judged and red cards awarded by the emergency umpire who should have in his/her disposal a monitor where they can view the incident in close up and then make a call. Usually when an incident like this takes place, severe injury occurs and the game stops. This will allow the emergency umpire to review the vision and decide if a red card is required.

He was. When he came to the bench you could see him pointing to it and they almost didn't want to take it out as it was obviously keeping the teeth in place. Makes me feel sick thinking about it!

This incident does raise for me the need for a red card system. It will rarely get used, but when something like this goes down, how is it fair that one team is down a player while the player who took him down is still able to run out the match? It would have made no difference to this actual game, but what if someone did that to Oliver in the first minutes of a GF? Would you want that player to keep playing while we were down one? There has to be some sort of system to deal with these unusually awful incident in game.

I agree, I don't think Gaff went out and thought "I'm gonna smash his jaw and break his teeth coz he's being a pest to me". I think he thought "you're an annoying [censored] I'm gonna hit ya a little because I'm having a brain fade moment and oh [censored] I just smashed you really hard and I am screwed". I feel for both of them, but bloody hell you look at poor Andrew and you just feel sick. To hear his mum was crying in the rooms just breaks your heart, when you think what Gus went through and that she has another kid in the army. I heard on radio this morning that she'd had to take on some counselling to help her deal with the Gus situation, and now this. FFS my heart really breaks for her! This will no doubt have long lasting ramifications on Gaff, his confident, his demeanour, the way he is perceived by the wider footy community, and no doubt his future and asking price. I would still welcome him to our club, but as stated previously, I would hope the club looks into the mental impact this will have on Gaff, on Gus (I'm sure he will be OK with it) and as a general look for our club. We were very hard on Bugg and he has barely played since (although he is a poor player which doesn't help), so how do we proceed should we get Gaff without looking hypocritical?

Look there is no doubt this isn’t a usual act for Gaff. I can’t even remember him being suspended recently. It was highly uncharacteristic. But that doesn’t make it right. He should get a nice long holiday. Brayshaw is having surgery. On a broken jaw and 4 displaced teeth. That’s not a light love tap. That’s a serious assault. Do I want Gaff hung for life? No. Should he come play for the Dees? Sure. Does he deserve 6 weeks? 100%!

That was pathetic from Gaff. Really really bad.

Would anyone here rather keep the cash and wait to see if we can get Kelly?