Bimbo

Wasn't that excited. St. Kilda are the second worse team I have seen this year Never have I seen so many perfect passes to opposition players standing on their own. Both teams must use this tactic at training they were so consistently good at it. If we were playing an adequate team I think we would have been slaughtered again. As always some things that will keep me interested when I should have taken up lawn bowls (or even just watching grass grow) years ago. Have always been a fan of Garland but he is playing the best footy of his career and seems to have reduced those untidy undisciplined tackles. If Spencer played as well as he did in this and the second St. Kilda match last year we would be very pleased with his progress. Every time I see Toumpas play he is more involved in the game and in the play. I am very happy with his progress If everyone gave the same effort as Dawes we would give hawthorn a run. Sadly he was only running on about one and a half cylinders today however. Tom McDonald was excellent. Great attitude and good to see him return to the form of last year. Fitzpatrick needs to play a few more games on end. He leads well and is a better than average second ruck. I dont say he will make it but certainly dont discount it. Seeing that Sylvia had most tackles (thanks for the info Rusty) and was involved all game was pleasing. It is often difficult to pick up those things at the game Perhaps most exciting was thinking at half time that we were still in with a real chance. It is a pity that Watts dropped mark will be my strongest memory of his performance (He may well have lost it in the lights as I saw a Saints player do later in the match) as he showed in the first quarter last week and most of tonight glimpses of becoming a very good player. I wish Kent and Blease would get more of the ball. Their moments of brilliance remind me of all the things I could never do. It is sad they are not more frequently repeated. I thought Melbourne got a couple of soft free kicks today. It is just a pity Saints got more and in far better positions. There is also the kicks that are missed as well. Still I suppose it is like all competitions, all the best umpires go to the best games. Next week will be interesting (and I havn't thought that for some time)

So the list is now worse than when Neeld took over, is it? 2011 2013 Those Players now on other lists: Handy recruits by jumper numbers Warnock (hardly playing) Hogan Gysbert (moderate VFL form) Toumpas Rivers (injured) Dawes Moloney (somewhere between Brownlow to waste of space) Viney Bennell (Somewhere in the West) Clark Morton (Ditto) Kent Petterd (played a bit though moderately) Jones M Scully (had one good game - last week) Terlich Martin (Think injured) If it is best out v best in - the new lot are far far better. competing for seniors Competing for seniors Bate Pedersen Seller Magner If it is out v ins - ins have it Waste of Space when left Dont know Maric Tynan Cook Barry Newton Taggert McNamara Couch Lawrence Stark Johnston Clisby Still prefer the right hand side Retired or playing in NT Old recruits Bartram (real loss) Byrnes Green Rodan Jurrah Wanaemirri Campbell LHS could not now play. RHS may add something more than two 18 yo recruits drafted about number 80 Others Gillies Cant quite see what he brings to the list. I cannot see how it can be suggested that the current list is worse than that in 2011. When potential is taken into account (talk particularly Toumpas and Viney), and consider leadership, I do not follow the suggestion that Neeld has left a worse list. I accept that some may move players from category to category but the important group is the top one and I do not believe there is any comparison.

Well I suppose he was the person who led to the change from Flinders Park to Melbourne Park Still dont like it

He is/was as boring as batshit. I think suggesting he was a "top barrister" may be stretching the truth a bit far. I think he was a Director of the MFC several years ago so has some knowledge of what it is about. Probably MFC needs a person with a higher profile but I am not absolutely oposed to the idea (particularly when compared to Jeff).

Turnovers became worse the longer the game progressed. That is either fitness, perhaps lack of confidence as the game goes on or no-one to kick it to (which could result from the previous options). There are some reasonable kicks who are making very ordinary mistakes. My head was seeking the solace of my hands more and more as the game went on. On another tack Does it mean I am am a completely unbalanced, unreasonable over the top supporter if I felt the free kick count reported in this thread favoured the Dee's far more than I saw on the ground.

Pleasure to provide you with a benchmark O learned one. I am of course willing to expand on what I was trying to say in short when I initially posted and thought was reasonably clear. I am terrified of what appears to me to be the simplistic view of so many DL posters (and others) that we must have change and the first person who puts his hand up must be the very person who we so desperately need. I would far rather canvas options. Have input from the new CEO. Not just hail the first very large mouth who is willing to put himself up for the job as the very thing needed. I personally do not believe that Mr. Kennett is the great saviour and short term fix so many are desperately searching for. I say this because for among other reasons: His lack of political judgement in losing an election even more "unloseable" than that famously lost by John Hewson years before. He managed to do this in large part by his devisive and self centered view that he is the only person to whom questions of policy must be made. It is this lack of inclusiveness that I fear is not for our club. He has said Melbourne should merge He has said Melbourne should locate As President of a football club he has critisized his own coach As indicated on this forum he is a divisive character and now is not the time to put such a person in this position He does have benefits of course including: He is a noise He expresses himself openly and would receive airplay and publicity for the club He has contacts with the "big end" of town and may bring in some money. Having said that, this is not an option I would leap at. Just because change is vital and will come, it need not be the first option that is taken and unless the club gets important decisions such as this right, its future will not even last the limited years I am further allotted on this planet. I will look but would not be surprised if he is not present on Monday

Actually his mothers father is Sir John McIntosh Young, Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of Victoria, 1974 - 1991. I dont know if he is related to Sir John Moore. And just to show he is a proper "chap", he is one of 2 current AFL players who are members of the Royal Melbourne Golf Club. Wouldn't want one of those Collingwood fellows in there.

Just when I didnt think things could get any worse. Change for the sake of change and with only limited thought of the consequences

Watching him last year at Collingwood I always felt that even when he was apparently down on form there was never a moment he was doing other than busting a gut and even when a big body like his is not getting the ball himself, he is he is bringing it to ground and also clearing a path for the smaller players. I cannot remember him ever marking as well as yesterday. It did seem that he was more in a one on one situation rather that other weeks when he appeared sometimes swamped (as Clarke has been). This may have had something to do with his great work-rate. Clarke must be licking his lips at the thought of now being in that same position where he will be normally one out as Dawes simply cannot be left alone on yesterday's form. I thought in the NAB cup match against North that the whole forward line functioned better when Dawes was there. Add to the fact that we may now have two big mobile forwards with leadership oozing from them, what a wonderful way for Hogan to be initiated to AFL football next year. I always thought Jack Darling was very luckiy with those he had round him in his first year and if Clarke and Dawes can stay on the park, Hogon could be even better off (if the ball gets down there).

Well put pm24. It is worth remembering Barassi also had a 5 year rebuild as the saviour of MFC from 1981 - 1985. His win/loss ratio for that time was a less than spectacular 30%. After he left Northey took over and was able to take a much improved list to the finals in his second year. It hopefully will not take as long again, but the team is starting from a long way back.

Like so many others, my old man encouraged me into it. At least I can faintly remember the 1964 Grand Final which is something to boast about. Graeme Wise was for some reason my favourite player. The old man is now well into his 90's so I suppose I can plan for another few re-builds.

Re-posted Mark Neeld has appeared to have correctly identified the appalling long term lack of appropriate "culture" at Melbourne and is dealing with it as his major priority as senior coach. Melbourne has not had real leaders (or indeed leaders amongst its senior players) since the early days of the Daniher era. Daniher oversaw the change of senior players from Lyon, Tingay, G & B Lovitt, Viney, Stynes, Walsh, Ward, N. Brown, M & S Febey, Leoncelli and Ingerson amongst others to such as Bruce, Green, Wheelan, James McDonald, Robertson, Neitz, Johnstone, White and Yze. Of the latter group I would only put Wheelan, Neitz and McDonald as being worthy successors but am of the view that Neitz and McDonald did not have the personality to impose themselves on the playing group and while they were terrific footballers who gave their all for the Club, could not translate this to ensuring that those young recruits who followed learnt to give what they gave as footballers. As a result of the overall lack of strong personalities the playing list became lazy and self-centered. I am not convinced that anything like the splendid "culture" existing at Geelong and Sydney could become part of the Melbourne ethos, or that Neeld's approach is the correct one to bring it about. However, the steps he is taking appear to be logical and realistic. I am certain that if this remedial work is not performed, this Club is going to remain about where it is until it folds for lack of interest. If whose who scream for the immediate appointment of a new coach are successful I accept that in the short term we may win a few more games over the next couple of years, however, without the change in culture it is currently undergoing, the Club is doomed to mediocrity. Unfortunately, this cannot be brought about in a few weeks, or even one season. Of those who were delisted last year, I noted real gnashing of teeth by supporters over only Rivers, Gysbert and Moloney. To suggest that Melbourne had a greater hold over Rivers than for example St. Kilda had over Goddard is not realistic. Rivers has taken the opportunity to play with a team with a famous culture, discipline and which has real hopes of immediate success. All strength to him. Stan Alves and Greg Wells did the same with varying success decades ago. Gysbert was sadly a victim of the Club's lack of ability to develop young players of promise, which is in part the immediate problem Neeld is attempting to deal with. While our drafting may appear extremely moderate over recent years, how many of those chosen who have not realized their full potential would have succeeded at other clubs? Moloney to my mind is one of those at fault in continuing the toxic culture and if we are to improve long term, he had to go. Brock McLean is an example of the point I am trying to make. At Melbourne he became noted for doing wheelies in the car park and getting into fights outside drinking venue's. I was delighted when he left. It has taken some years and it now pains me greatly to admit that he is playing excellent disciplined football. It would simply not have happened in the team he left. Further to the suggestion trumpeted by his critics that this is Neeld's team, therefore he must take all the blame, it remains the fact that 25 listed melbourne players at the start of 2011 are now on the senior list. It will be much closer to being his team after the draft this year, if he remains in power. He has however recruited a number of players from other clubs who are now roundly ciriticised. I believe this is criticism without consideration to the real reason for the drafting of many of them. Clark is probably the AFL recruiting coup of the last two years. He provides real on and off field leadership. A perfect mentor for such as Jesse Hogan. Dawes is an intelligent and articulate leader coming from a strong club. His excellent article in the Age set out his understanding of Neeld's focus. Again he is a leader on and off the field (I say that having followed his career with interest at Collingwood). In his one NAB appearance the whole forward line seemed much better structured. Byrnes is a (multiple?) best clubman winner at Geelong. Again he brings his experience to the club and in my view has also provided good leadership on the ground. Roden is also an excellent trainer and apparently a personality about the Club. He is there to teach because there are not many others who can (and hopefully play a bit). Each of the above were picked up for far more than their football ability. Of the others, Sellar was probably a Neil Craig pick and has played some solid games in defence. Gillies comes from a team with a great attitude and was good enough to play 13 games for Geelong (although I haven't yet seen why) and Pedersen also comes as a senior player with experience at another Club (although again his on field performance has been underwhelming). Only Clarke of this list may be/become an A grader, however, each of them do far more for the Club in the terms of what they bring on and off the training track than a few young late numbered draft picks who would quickly become culture victims (or retaining Moloney, Gysbert, Morton Bennell et al). They have mostly been chosen for the short term in their own careers, but for the long term good of the Club. Without their potential influence I would despair (even more) about the future of potential stars such as Toumpas and Hogan. If all Neeld does as our senior coach is to bring about enormous and vital changes in attitude at Melbourne, he will to my mind have been a success. He must be given at least to the end of this year and probably to the end of the next to cement changes, otherwise I fear we are doomed to spend the rest of its existance supporting a team at the bottom quarter of the AFL ladder.

Davis is still only 20 years old. Is it just possible that we are taking a different course and trying to develop young players much better than in recent years?

Each year I think he has just about reached his peak. Each year he proves me wrong. Never more so than last year

Most enjoyable thread read this year. Would have loved to have been there

Cant see how we could be awarded the 4 points. As far as i could see, we didnt play

Would not have survived the merger. This is a mere (further) patch of misery amongst many others over the decades. Had a lot of fun supporting them over same period. Could only stop if they ceased

Dear Jonesbag Things could be worse. I've had Essendon supporters feeling sorry for me

and I loathe Malthouse

Carlton Some other clubs a long way back. Loathe the supporters (know too many of them) Loathe the Administration past and present (including those who have moved into positions (allegedly) away from the club such as Collins) Loathe many of the players (eg Robinson Judd and McLean) Just hate the cheats

Went with 84 year old father and 12 year old son. Could hardly speak for days as voice gone. I always had that awful feeling that if Trapper wanted to he could have played like this whenever he wanted to. Was one of the most intriguing games I have ever seen and as unlikely a win it would (and perhaps should) have been as when Wiz took Collingwood apart in the second half at the G kicking 9 when he was only brought back on as Ben Beames broke his wrist.

Many thanks for all report from another office bound computer watcher, particularly BH and RGRS as I know how difficult it is to try and refer to each player individually and Maldon Boy

Many thanks for providing the link. It has not raised my opinion of CW. I am grateful to GL for trying. I am content to be labeled "rabid" for the reasons espoused by Redleg

Those with less folicles after marriage are more likely to have sons, In this case fortunately tied by way of father/son to Dees

Feelings towards GWS Positives At least partly responsible for Clarke, Toumpas, Hogan, Viney at 26, Dawes and Barry Scully and his fat father have caused some of the funniest and most entertaining blogs ever Negatives Hate Scully Hate his fat father Really hate Sheedy Hate Gubby Allen Net Result I think the preponderance of weight is with the negatives