binman

Good on rhe giants. I like them and hope they do well. I look forward to our rivalry. I also like their song. With its gypsy, marching band vibe a clever nod to traditional club songs from a very talented muso, Harry angus of cat empire fame.

Fixed

I agree with all four of your points. Looking at it objectively we are well placed to finish the year strongly. We're in good shape injury wise and have good depth. We're a high scoring side that will cause problems for any team who does not get their defensive zone right. If we bring our best intensity and our opposition doesn't we will beat allmost all teams. And i think we are improving as our game plan becomes more instictive. I also think that we have 3 of our best 22 to come back in, brayshaw, h and salem. One other factor: as the reality statrs to dawn that roos is leaving the players will lift and be desperate to win for him

Yep fair enough - a brownlow does not 'guarantee' elite status. I took your comments a little less literally. I agree umpires are not the best people to judge the best player in any one year. However looking at the list of Brownlow winners the majority are elite so i think it reasonable to say that at the very least winning the Charlie is a good indicator of where a player sits in terms of his ranking as a player.

Just on Platten. He made AA 5 times, won a Bronlow, a Magarey, played in four VFL/AFL premierships, kicked 228 goals in 258 games, won 2 best and fairests at both Hawthorn and Central Districts and is in both the SANFL and AFL Hall of Fame and you don't consider him elite? All i can say is you must have a pretty high bar for elite.

You're kidding right. I'll give you cooney, though in the season he won it he was a short priced favourite and had a brilliant year and i have no doubt would have been elite if not for chronic knee problems. Platten, Crawf, Stynes, Couch and Aker all most definitiley elite players. Some consider Platten one of the best players to come out of SA for petes' sakes. Stynes not elite? You can't be serious. As i said 24 of the 28 years an elite player has won the Brownlow. Pretty good measure and one that refutes your claim the Bronwlow is not a good indicator of elite status. But i just chose the last 28 years. Here is the next 28 years. 1959 Verdun Howell St Kilda 20 Bob Skilton South Melbourne 20 1960 John Schultz Footscray 20 1961 John James Carlton 21 1962 Alistair Lord Geelong 28 1963 Bob Skilton South Melbourne 20 1964 Gordon Collis Carlton 27 1965 Noel Teasdale North Melbourne 20 Ian Stewart St Kilda 20 1966 Ian Stewart St Kilda 21 1967 Ross Smith St Kilda 24 1968 Bob Skilton South Melbourne 24 1969 Kevin Murray Fitzroy 19 1970 Peter Bedford South Melbourne 25 1971 Ian Stewart Richmond 21 1972 Len Thompson Collingwood 25 1973 Keith Greig North Melbourne 27 1974 Keith Greig North Melbourne 27 1975 Gary Dempsey Footscray 20 1976 Graham Moss Essendon 48 1977 Graham Teasdale South Melbourne 59 1978 Malcolm Blight North Melbourne 22 1979 Peter Moore Collingwood 22 1980 Kelvin Templeton Footscray 23 1981 Bernie Quinlan Fitzroy 22 Barry Round South Melbourne 22 1982 Brian Wilson Melbourne 23 1983 Ross Glendinning North Melbourne 24 1984 Peter Moore Melbourne 24 1985 Brad Hardie Footscray 22 1986 Robert DiPierdomenico Hawthorn 17 Greg Williams Sydney 17 Perhaps 4-5 of that list might not have been considered elite. That leaves 23 who were. So in the last 56 years the winner of the brownlow was elite player 46-47 times. And you argue its not a good indicator of elite status. Sheesh.

Yep, that's a fair call. So in the 24 of the 28 years an elite player has won the brownlow. Pretty good measure then i would say

I'm not sure i agree. This is a list of the winner in the last 28 years, which is a pretty big sample size. I think you could mount a strong argument that only Shane Woewodin and perhaps Scott Wyndd and Tony Liberatore would not be considered an elite player by most: 1987 John Platten Hawthorn 20 Tony Lockett St Kilda 20 1988 Gerard Healy Sydney 20 1989 Paul Couch Geelong 22 1990 Tony Liberatore Footscray 18 1991 Jim Stynes Melbourne 25 1992 Scott Wynd Footscray 20 1993 Gavin Wanganeen Essendon 18 1994 Greg Williams Carlton 30 1995 Paul Kelly Sydney 21 1996 James Hird Essendon 21 Michael Voss Brisbane Bears 21 1997 Robert Harvey St Kilda 26 1998 Robert Harvey St Kilda 32 1999 Shane Crawford Hawthorn 28 2000 Shane Woewodin Melbourne 24 2001 Jason Akermanis Brisbane Lions 23 2002 Simon Black Brisbane Lions 25 2003 Mark Ricciuto Adelaide 22 Nathan Buckley Collingwood 22 Adam Goodes Sydney 22 2004 Chris Judd West Coast 30 2005 Ben Cousins West Coast 20 2006 Adam Goodes Sydney 26 2007 Jimmy Bartel Geelong 29 2008 Adam Cooney Western Bulldogs 24 2009 Gary Ablett Jr Geelong 30 2010 Chris Judd Carlton 30 2011 Dane Swan Collingwood 34 2012 Jobe Watson∗ Essendon 30 2013 Gary Ablett Jr Gold Coast 28 2014 Matt Priddis West Coast 26 2015 Nathan Fyfe Fremantle 31

Bloody lawyers

Totally agree. I watched the game at a pub and when he was weighing up his options said out loud 'don't cross it!'. And then he did. Ugh

I wasn't going to post anything in this thread because it upsets me (and to be honest plain makes me sad) the views of so many Australian men on this issue. And i'm not going to post another comment. To be clear i'm not having a shot at you AZZKika per se but this post is representative of how far we have to go before we can end family violence, in large part because so many men share such a view. Why does violence against women get singled out. Are you serious? I mean really? Do yourself a favor and do some research. There is plenty. As a starter read the executive summary of the Royal commission into family violence to get a sense of the pervasiveness of violence against women in our society. Read some of the victims statements. Or don't. Remain ignorant and continue being part of the problem And don't bother with the brown shirt brigade bemoaning men's right being taken away, conflating (excusing) use of violence with issues such as having no role in the family, loss of identity or not having access to their kids as that knucklehead Latham did. Lets be clear family violence is a gendered issue. The overwhelming majority of family violence is perpetrated by men against women and children. Family. Loved ones. This is fact.

I love the description for today: a soaking rain

Could not agree more. In fact was going to post the same thing. In fact they alresdy have the mechanism in the staging/diving report the mrp have as an option. I know it is never used and has not resulted in any suspensions but the threat as being found guilty of being a cheat seems yo have addressed the issue

I recckon vince has to be at least partvof the conversation. Normally aa players need a couple of season playing top shelf footy. He was terrific in 2014. Even better last season and has been one of our best each game this season

If he gets to 300 games he will earn them all. If he gets there then any knocks on him as a number 1 pick will have evaporated given i think reiwoldt would be the only number 1 to do so

As i said before the Hawks game one of the biggest myths in footy is that wet weather brings a more skilled team and less skilled team closer together due to the difficulty in handling the ball. The opposite is true - the more skilled the player the more likely they are to be able to mitigate against the impact of rain. We saw exactly that against the Hawks with players like Watts, Rioli, Vince and Gunston handling the ball beautifully. Further rain exacerbates skill errors from the less skilled. That said rain does make it much harder to mark the ball which should help our chances stopping buddy (though he is amazing on the ground) but equally make Hogan's and Dawes jobs harder. I expect that we would have had to have learnt a lesson against the Hawks that we need to kick it forward at all costs and limit the number of slick handballs. Tough game but it we will have some show if we bring our best competitiveness to the table. Hard to beat the Swan in those stakes though.

Rhyming slang?

Riddler I'm not sure what incident or issue you are referring to ('won't be the last time' - tres mysterious) but given Kent hurt his back against Port that free he earnt for having his back used as trampoline won't have have done his back much good.

Good post Radar. I'd add one point - one I've made before. I don't think Watts gets enough credit for how infrequently he misses games due to injuries - this year but also throughout his career. This suggests that although looks pretty laid back and casual (and has had a bit of a reputation as party boy) he is also very professional in his approach to training and managing the impact of playing AFL football. This consistency of getting on the park has been a big factor in the synergy Watts has developed with Hogan and for that matter the players delivering the ball to him.

That's where it ends though. You could perhaps mount a case for m jones heing best 22 but apart from those you've listed that's it.

I love the fact he is left foot kick and a good one at that. Hibberd, Wagner, H, Melksham, Hunt, Salem, Jetta and Vince would make for a pretty impressive group of small to medium size defenders

The AFL need to come out and clarify this point

Good get

Sorry H disagree. I think the club is duty bound to get him to 100 games if he is anywhere near the required AFL level (which he is) and believe there is still a place for this sort of approach in the game. Footy will never be just business and it simply cannot be forgotten what he has given to this club. They'll get him those two games and i will be proud of the club when they do.

I thought he was from Brighton