binman

I think you'll find I've answered that very question (though I wish I hadn't bothered): https://demonland.com/forums/topic/66994-postgame-rd-01-vs-st-kilda/?do=findComment&comment=2759903

No it's absolutely not (defendimg goodwn). And respectfully I think you've misunderstood the point I was makimg in those posts. The first one for instance, i was simply answering your question why I thought 3kzs post was inaccurate. My reply didn't contain any assessment of how well he implemented a transition and turnover game, just that he was trying to implement that method. Which he was. My use of #Goodwin myths is shorthand pushback on the frequent misrepresentation of his game plan and methods. Such myths have a tendenchy, thru sheer weight of repetition, to become accepted fact. I dislike the modern tendency to rewrite history. Getting history wrong drives misinformation, and in this example colours any analysis and assessment of the incumbent coach’s performance. An obvious example is the suggestion that King is implementing a completely different game an to Goody. It's different yes, but not radically different in the way, for example, Mcrae's game plan was radically different the defence first method Buckley used. And that fact informs my assessment King's performance.

Not sure how.

I'll take that as a compliment.

As I suggested, I agree Goody, despite his best efforts, didn't successfully implement the transition, turnover game. Agree one of the biggest issues was the way we entered 50, though the method was exacerbated by having three of our starting mids being some of the worst kicks inside 50 in terms retention rate in the AFL (tracc was the worst in the AFL I think). Disagree completely his efforts to implement a new style of playing were 'tweaks'. No better evidence of that than Goody's last game of his tenure at the dees where we demolished the Eagles on transition and turnover and scored 139 points, our highest score of the season. That game looked diametrically different to the one that won us a flag. Disagree, the game plan was still largely a 'territory, hug the boundary style, low risk, kicking into a congested fwd line' style. It just wasn't The eyes and data tell the story. For example, despite the myth we continued to be a long bomb team in 2025 we were in fact mid table for metres gained from kicks - Freo and the Hawks, two teams playing fast transition footy were well above us for metres gained from kicks, with the suns comfortably number one. Ironically, King has repeatedly emphasised we will play a territory game. And I suspect under King we will in fact be more a long bomb team than we were in 2025 and be in top 5 for metres gained per kick. There is a bunch of other data points that evidence us not being a territory, hug the boundary style taking on low risks - eg our woefully high number of turnovers and scores from turnover (because we were taking on more high risk kicks), the increased number of both kicks and handballs (a manifestation of our change style, ie less territory first footy), the kick out patterns (we almost completely stopped kicking long to a contest, instead usually kicking short to a free player in the pocket) and the massive drop in the number of times we kicked long to Maxy, or any contest for that matter. Agree many players were confused about their roles. Agree King has done a good job of implementing a method that has meant we are moving the ball freely and have a good connection with the forward line. And to be clear, I'm not defending Goody, or suggesting we erred in going another direction. I could not be more impressed with King and on the evidence thus far think the club has made an excellent decision. Disagree that even claz, may and tracc were still with us King would have succeeded in achieving the results we saw on Sunday. I mean for starters, he got rid of them in large part because they don't have the skills we need to implement his game plan, namely leg speed and ability to hit targets. And they were also part of a group of senior players who clearly struggled to adapt to the transtion game plan Goody tried to implement All that said, agree to disagree.

'Seriously his Gameplan was done at the end of 2023, nothing changed after that for 2 Seasons. Tweaks were made apparently, but the same game was played' The bolded bits are simply not true Can't be bothered relitigating why, suffice to say there is a difference between trying to implement a new game plan, which Goody unquestionably tried to do in the first two thirds of 2024 and all of 2025, and successfully doing so My intel suggests the struggle to implement the new transtion game the best teams were using was a signficant source of tension between the younger players and some senior players who struggled, or refused, to adapt. The importantance of not rewriting history and amplyfying myths is, unlike say Mcrae at the Pies, King is not trying to implement a brand new game plan, one completely foreign to the team. He is building on an existing base of knowledge and practice. For example a notable element of King's game plan is long forward handballs (a big factor in our 220 plus metres gained by handball against the Saints). Goody tried to implement long handballs in 2024 and 2025. Meaning any current players who were on our list in 2024 and 2025 have spent considerable time already practising and training using long forward handballs. Kings efforts to implement an effective transition and turnover game plan has also been supported by the decision to exit senior players in Tracc, May and Oliver who clearly were struggling to adapt to the transtion and turnover based game plan Goody was trying to implement.

It can be hard to find the VFL team. And often it's not announced till very late as the line-up is dependent on who is selected in the senoirs Usually @KC from Casey will post the line-up in the corresponding thread for the match when it gets announced. But if you want to find it, the best bet is afl.com - top right on the main page of the app and website is three buttons. Click that and then click on the VFL link. It will take you to the fixture. Click on the Casey game and then lineup - if it has been loaded up teams will be there. If on your phone screenshot line-up and then you can post here by clicking on select files to upload link below. Upload the screen shot. Or just transcribe the team Team is up now. But I can't upload image as I've exceeded my limit. You might be able to Can't be bothered transcribing team, but I can tell you MFC players selected are: Melksham Xavier Taylor Ricky Mentha Riley Onley Bailey Laurie (note: emergency for the oned so might not play for Casey) Jed Adams Max Heath Tom Matthews Paddy Croos AMW Jack Henderson Notable non MFC players selections because they are on the radar of AFL clubs as possible mid season draft and rookie picks: Toby Sinema Luamon Lual (on the interchange is a Warrell Lual, who surely must be related?) Ethan Stanley

#Goodwin myths

Go for it - ie post the VFL team sheet up on Demonland every time they play

The biggest moment at the Golden Plains festival was the last song of Basement Jaxx - Where's your head at. Crowd went absolutely bananas , and chanted the chorus, which is just perfect for crowd sing a long. Would be an awesome choice for a song after a goal (assumng they played the chorus)

Didn't channel 2 also cover the VFA? Game of the week? But yep, def remember channel 0

To determine the equity points for ball winning at the all team level you aggregate each of that team's players equity points for actions that result in winning the ball. How do you source the individual ball winning equity points - is that data extracted from the CD data?

Swans dud heaps of those sort of taps etc in tonight's game - Hawks too, albeit to a lesser extent. The Swana also used lots of long forward handballs and overlap run. Very similar game plan to ours.

I have to say I was surprised how well he did in the ruck. He created a centre clearance goal and we only scored two. Not that Maxy gave him many opportunities.

And if he Maxy tapped it Koz who goaled without the involvement of a teammate he and Maxy would each get 3 points?

Thanks wheelo, that's a brilliant explanation of the ratings sytem. In your scenario of a goal from a centre bounce where the opposition has no involvement in the chain, the the team scores six points, shared between players involved. How many equity points would a player receive, say Maxy, who took the ball from the ball up, ran forward and goaled without any involvement from a teamate (eg no shepherd)?

Well I did aim for 20 (but might make it 30) and was padded out by Andy's intro and that song after - which will never be heard again

That brings me back to the glory days of the VFL in the 1970s, when it was the VFA and channel 2 covered the games. I barracked for Port Melbourn as kid, because they were red and blue of course, and in the 70s they had the same disco blue as the dees VFL jumper, and still do actually (though it was also nice to support a successful team!). But i also had soft spot for the Dandenong Redlegs, one because i barracked for Norwood Redlegs and two they wore what looked like our old jumper.

That's possible - particularly if those turnovers result in oppo goals. The way the CD player rating is calculated is each involvement a player has (eg kick, handball, pressure act, mark, free kick for and against etc etc) is scored on a system called Next Expected Score, which in simple terms is how that involvement impacts the probability your team scores, or in the case of an error the opponent scores - i think I'm right in saying that each involvement is scored on a scale of negative six to positive six depending on the NES value (@WheeloRatings is that right?). So yes, if Salo took on more high risks on Sunday, and in doing so turned the ball over resulting in a Saints goal he would get wacked for that points wise (eg a clanger goes to an opponent who directly kicks a goal, such as the kick Salo had intercepted inside our 50, Salo would lose 6 points, if the turnover resulted in in a goal but only after say a chain of 3 disposals he might lose 3 points). Conversely though if Salo's high risk kick are part of a scoring chain (which is why such kicks are so valuable when they come off) Salo earns points. If one of those kicks is a goal assist, he scores good points (maybe 6, but 6 might be only for actual goal scorers, im not sure -it's all a bit mysterious). All that said, XL actually had more turnovers (6) than Salo who had 4. But Salo had 6 clangers, one of which did directly result in a goal, two more than HL. So, he lost points to XL there. They both had 4 score involvements and 1 goal assist so close to equal points on that front. A criticism of the CD player rating system is because it focuses on scoreboard impact of each involvement it over indexes goals, goal assists and score involvements and therefore defenders and role players often don't score as well as forwards or mids. That means defenders often rate lower than you think they otherwise might. Which makes XLs 13.4 player rating even more meritorious.

Tis now. Come round 6 or 90 will be the new 80 i reckon Scoring will settle

Agree. And as much as I liked Benny's stuff the current content is higher quality.

100%. I've been very critical of all aspects of the clubs comms, including the fan engagement stuff. All aspects has massively improved, on particular the fan engagement content. This video is a terrific example- I watched it last night. Super entertaining, really well edited, exciting and also fascinating and insightful. I loved the bits with King talking to the team, and the movie clip with Farell going off spliced in afger a reference from King (which to be honest i didnt get - but the players obviously did given their laugter) was genuinely funny. I also loved the edit of the game itself, with included all the goals. Terrific stuff all round. One thing eally jumped out to me from King's half time speech. He said something along the lines that we don't need champions to win the game we need you each to do it. I'm perhaps reading too much into it, but that felt quite a pointed comment and reference about Claz and Tracc.