DeeSpencer

Smart ruckmen and clubs have worked him out. Against any half decent ruck he is restricted as to where he can hit the ball due to fact he doesn't get over the top of his opposite ruckman, more so he restricts the other ruckmen from getting near it and drops it down to our side of the contest.But really it should be more predictable for us that any other club. Crazy.

Lynden [censored] for brains Dunn ran through him at training. He's pissing blood and restricted to swimming. He was just coming into some form at VFL level and has once again copped an injury. No doubt the majority will see this as Strauss' fault.

I'd love to pick the eye's out of this post, but I won't.I agree. Leaving one defender at home I think is a smart move, especially when up against such dangerous forwards. But then you still need to apply forward pressure. So how do you do both? The secret I think is to have a really fit and hard working midfield/half forward and back line. That's one thing the Cats have, with midfielders/players as fit as mids across the lines. Collingwood do as well. We don't!

Hurley isn't slow. Watch as he competes in the air and then can pick the ball up at ground level. He was reactive today though.He simply got smashed by a good defender (Tarrant) in a very good defence. Was he much worse than Riewoldt (the best CHF in the league) in 2 grand finals last year? The problem is to play through your CHF against the pies is a disaster. You have to spread there defense and move the ball quickly, often going across the ground and down it. Hird is spot on. Your CHF is your most important player. So Hurley is theirs and really Watts is ours.

He was hardly a success last year. But he didn't exactly fail either. He was our best second ruck option but was hampered by repeat small injuries.

I don't want any more excuses so I agree with the first bit of your post (that I haven't quoted), but I don't think being bigger and more aggressive necessarily gets you far. Collingwood have 2 big boys upfront but besides that probably only have a few players (Swan, Ball, O'Brien, Maxwell) in the rest of the ground who are strong aggressive players. A 22 who all go hard at the ball and are collectively strong is more important. We need the big key forwards and Watts and Cook are the hope there and I'm willing to wait, but I'm not worried about the rest of the ground. Frawley, Rivers, Tapscott, Trengove, Moloney, Sylvia - we've got our share. We don't need a team of big units, rather a team of 22 who don't shirk the issue.Our major problems right now are: 1. Lack of big forwards - As mentioned above this will take time 2. The players are a bit confused by the game plan. I know this as a fact. This should be resolved quickly and is not acceptable. You can have a bad game plan but to have one the players haven't mastered is very average coaching. 3. An inexperienced midfield. The loss of McDonald has hurt us especially considering we've got Scully and McKenzie out (and until recently Morton). Moloney is up and about but Gysberts is very fresh, Bail is new to tagging/the centre square at AFL level, Sylvia is probably best suited in midfield bursts and Trengove is hardly a veteran. 4. The whole ground defence hasn't been good enough. This is linked to the first 3 points. We need bigger forwards, a sharper game plan and a more experienced midfield to get this spot on, but it needs to lift quickly.

Good call. That's exactly how I see it.The midfield I'm not overly concerned about. They are adjusting to life without Junior who used to do half the running and tackling for them. McKenzie (tackling) and Scully (running) will be a huge boost. Bail, Gysberts and Trengove are all inexperienced in playing the most important position on the ground. However, we'll be a much better side when we get a forward line who play with the courage and work rate of our backline. At the moment I don't think any of Jurrah, Green, Dunn or Watts do. Green's been getting his work rate up this year. He was trying to lead by doing the spectacular but I think has started to realise the simple stuff is more important. Jurrah lifted his defensive work and close observers will notice Watts' tackling has stepped up this year. Back on topic. I'm all for Juice. Dunn's best form (and goals) came last year when he was played as a defensive forward capable of dragging an attacking HBF deep and using his height advantage. This year he's been played deep as a tall and I just don't think it's working. Juice has upped his work rate massively in the VFL and I think deserves a chance.

Maybe you're right. But Roos went within a kick of 2 grand finals winning one and Lyon the same. Have things really been revolutionized by Mick Malthouse who has been coaching for what 20+ years?Contested ball, defence and a well drilled structure are still the backbone of Collingwood's success regardless of forward press and other stuff. Personally I'd love to see Bailey get it together and get the ultimate success, but having Roos would be interesting. When was the last time a premiership coach came to Melbourne? I've heard the rumour he's coaching us next year, but I'm not sold on it yet. It could just be he takes a special interest in our group - we did give the worst loss of his career last year and that alone might have been enough for him to think that we've got a playing group capable of more than we are giving at the moment.

Green - not yet captain Jones - unJones like game Bartram - Blease or Strauss? Watts - MUST KEEP SPOT Gysberts - does hard stuff Bennell - like in backline Frawley - best still coming Trengove - hits the post Morton - run V soft Sylvia - arrogant or confident? Dunn - We want Juice! Grimes - the new Bruce Garland - had sloppy moments Moloney - dominant first half Jurrah - better defensive game Rivers - led the way Wonaeamirri - little brilliant moments Martin - decent hit outs Tapscott - the new Grimes Davey - need more words --- thought one of Bailey's better coaching decisions was to give Davey some easy kill time up forward, instead of having to be the go to man as he is most weeks Jamar - just too BIG! Bail - better each week

He's playing awful footy at the moment. Got a couple of easy ones today but he really isn't looking dangerous as a forward, exerting minimal forward pressure and probably isn't great as a midfielder any more either. He needs to lift in the next few weeks. Our leadership group as a whole is struggling. Jones is just battling through games, Moloney is playing well but has had an off field slip, Grimes and Davey aren't near their best. Probably the only one who's going well is Rivers, and he's only a few classic Rivers brain fades away from looking rubbish!

3rd quarter and first 5 minutes of the first was rubbish. We can't afford these lapses against the good sides. The rest of the game was ok but still scrappy. This was a bad side even for the suns (No Ablett, Brown, Krarkouer or Bennell) and we let them score too much. Forward pressure went up and down as did the midfield work rate.

Should be a great opportunity for Howe, Cook, McDonald and Warnock to be the spine with Spencer and Gawn in the ruck.

Agree with this. It was nice to see Jurrah getting a bit physical. Wasn't a bad hit either for a skinny bloke.There was another moment when Grimes went over when Raines was applying his [censored] and we got a free/50. I thought Davey did hunt his ball a bit in the second quarter and made a bit of a difference. The problem is he's not the guy you want to be winning his own ball. It reminds me of Judd at Carlton. He's still a gun player but a lot of his game is now restricted to inside due to not having the players around him. If he doesn't win the inside ball he wouldn't be a star outside player like he was at West Coast. The thing we need is more dangerous players. It's like saying Riewoldt is crap in grand finals so needs to be played at CHB when really what he needs is some other forward targets. If we get Scully back, Morton racking them up and hurting teams on a wing, Blease in the team and playing well and Sylvia finding more of the footy then all of a sudden I bet Davey will be getting 20+ with a tag or 25 without.

Can't wait for QB'day. Show those Collingwood filth with our news reporter, flag and trumpeter! Go Dees. PS How good were Jeff White and David Schwartz today, fantastic games from those old boys.

He was never going to produce much today. I'd say throw him back to Casey and lets see him get some 4 quarter form, but if they played him today then I don't think they were ever planning for him to play VFL. I'm still not sure of his best position, but it probably is on a wing. I hope he can be left to play on a wing and use his height as a marking option out of the backline and his endurance to work up and down the park. His first 2 years were very good and last year he was apparently up and about before injury and a poor return. It's too early to make any rash judgements on him as a player.

Some top ideas in this thread. 1. Drop Davey - oh yeah top idea that, because he's struggled with a tag so let's get Sylvia tagged instead and bring in Maric or some other star. 2. Bring in Warnock - oh year we're playing a team full of kids but we really need a gorilla keeper full back. It's not like Frawley is AA, Garland's done 2 good jobs and Rivers was top 3 on ground today Anyone else have any brilliant suggestions? I would however, suggest: 1. Keep Watts in. Dunn and Green will never be AFL key forwards. Watts might be. Let's keep giving him chances, he wasn't that bad today. He laid a few tackles. 2. Drop Morton. Bringing him in was a bad idea. Again he wasn't horrible but I think he felt the pressure on trying to make a difference when he hasn't played a game all season. Let's get him back for some full game time in the VFL. My suggestion would be Maric to come back in up forward. Bennell to start in the midfield. Trengove (who was down today) to play as the sub. 3. Seriously consider Newton to give us a genuine target at FF. Only problem is to keep the run in the side it might have to be Dunn to make way. Any objections?

6 - Moloney (did what was needed) 5 - Bail (tagged, won the ball in tight, and used it well) 4 - Rivers (strong, and Frawley was much better as well) 3 - Jurrah (goals!) 2 - Jones (alot of crap mixed in but good work rate and became important) 1 - Wona (just his smartness as a football is worth its weight in gold, he knows where to lead and brings others into the game. 1.3 wasn't a great return but I really like what he brought to the team) Unlucky - Gysberts, Jamar, Martin, Frawley

Great to hear Maric bounced back strongly. Despite a poor performance and playing as a sub I think he was unlucky to be dropped. I think there is room for him and Wona in the same side and I hope he can get back in. Same goes for Jetta, but I think Jetta needs increased fitness until he'll really cement himself at AFL level. Sounds like Juice is on fire and Petterd is just a bit off boil but should be back soon. Joel Macdonald is ticking over nicely ala Warnock. Let's hope Strauss and Blease can lift soon. I heard Strauss was ok last week, and even this week turned a shocking first half into something we can work with. I want to hear how he's defending is going, I've heard he's stepped it up a notch but is now struggling for confidence to get and use the ball. Good on Tom McDonald for keeping his form up. I don't expect to see him unless things go wrong this year, but a good first season in the VFL can often mean a player has settled in well and will make it one day.

A torrid run with injuries explains the lack of fitness. If the fitness comes he'll be more than handy. Until then I think he'll be in and out of the side. It took Leroy a long time to click at Essendon, and now he's a jet (excuse the pun) apparently. Nev should build his game slowly. Bennell is more interesting. He's been showing flashes of brilliance forward and back since game 1. He has to find more of the ball. However I can't help but think he'd be better served in a more successful system of football.

Newton is clearly a very good VFL player these days. The decision needs to be made as to his prospects at AFL level. I'm sure if Martin lost form Juice would get a run as back up ruck, a position he was ok in last year. But to bring him in for a tall forward spot would be more controversial. I would rather keep Watts at CHF. However we are currently playing without a FF and rotating smaller players through. The problem is for Juice to play FF we might have to drop another running player. We clearly need the extra run, but maybe we need to extra structure more??? Even if it comes in the form of Juice.

Thats pure BS.You get judged on intensity - lacking in the second half yesterday, and general signs of improvement - largely non existent so far this year. Injuries are part of the game. We've got a few out or underdone, but it's not excuse. There is only so far waiting for all the best players to come back in and waiting for improvement will take you. All I want to see is us learn from our mistakes. Bailey seems to have less and less conviction every time he speaks. At the moment I'm hearing too much the players weren't up to it blah blah blah and not enough we are on a course and we will be ruthless and unacceptable efforts will not be tolerated.

75 inside 50's for Hawthorn. Grimes rebounded 15 or so of them. Very few AFL players have 100% accuracy over 15 touches under pressure. Even Tapscott turned it over a couple of times tonight. I was most annoyed when he didn't stick tight to his opponent. His kicking I'm not overly fussed about.

A maximum payout of 100,000 and this idiot Ange thinks he'd be greedy to seek financial gain. Someone needs to let Ange know we're not talking about a bit of a sore knee here. How would you like to be having early signs of dementia in your mid 20's?Belly would be stupid not to seek some assistance in maintaining his health, even if that is to the detriment of the club. I think these claims should be the AFL's responsibility if (as in this case) the medical staff have done nothing wrong, but even still if the club tried to dodge this in any way I'd be ashamed. What kind of club are we if we don't look after those who represented us???

Dawes takes big marks and splits packs. Bate has strong hands on a lead out in front, but can't get his hands up to take a mark 1 on 1 yet alone in a pack. He's simply not big enough for a key position and not quick enough for a medium/small position in the forward line, or most likely anywhere else on the ground.

Why wait for the odds to shorten. If you think he can win then you must believe he will get a nomination. Take the speculative odds now!I think next week David Swallow will show what he's got and the whole thing will be over.