DeeSpencer

It's the overall benefit to the state of the list which is where I see the potential in this trade. We take a guy with pick 2 and we put a whole bunch of hope in him being a star and carrying a heavy load in the midfield whilst at the same time Nicholson and Magner continue to be the guys at Casey getting a kick and putting pressure on the 22, which isn't even real pressure because the coaches don't want to pick them anyway. Make this trade and all of a sudden the guys at Casey not getting a game are Buntine and Bugg and the club wants to play them and so Clisby and Evans get dropped and then they play great at Casey to get back in. Builds a development model. Obviously it's risky and they safer option is hope pick 2 becomes a star and along with Viney and Jones we got 3 A grade mids and then the rest of the team gets dragged along behind them. Doing the trade would mean you develop a more competent team all over the field and then you hope you develop a star out of someone who wasn't predicted. Remember Sydney's 3 midfield stars are Jack (rookie), Kennedy (trade for pick 40 odd), Hannebery (3rd? round pick). I'm sure part of the reason they look so good and became stars was because their development was aided by playing in a team that more often than not had 22 capable players fulfilling their roles.

Or we could get that same midfield star at pick 9 and replace 2 spuds (take your pick of Magner, Jetta or Nicholson) with very decent young players. It's a ballsy move but one worth considering.

Jack Billings thanks Spirit. Unless Luke is his gun brother.

Buntine could very well be the big bodied 190cm type that we need in the midfield. And whilst we still have Dunn and co in our backline we aren't exactly classified as a top class backline. Again it depends on how we rate the talent but remember Hogan and Martin should be in this draft, so pick 2 is really a pick 4.

I like Bugg as a really nice effort guy. Might not be the worlds most skilled player but he's a Paul Roos type for sure. Could play midfield, back or small defensive forward. Buntine is the deal maker though. He's the one you either say the talent is still their at a high level or not and decide whether to do the trade. He's got that height that comes in handy at half back and is a natural footballer in terms of reading the play. Personally we replace Roh Bail or Tapscott with Bugg as defensive forward and we replace Dunn with Buntine as that mid sized defender. That's the benefit of this trade. The downside is we go back 7 places in the draft. Obviously that means no Kelly, Aish or Scharenberg if we believe the phantom drafts. Maybe no Billings either. That's a top 5. But we still have a few handy mids to choose from - Lewis Taylor, Freeman, Matt Crouch, Kolodjashnij, Sheed.

I didn't read it as sinister. I saw it more as Lyons being contracted is happy to stay in Adelaide. Adelaide are happy to keep him. Both have the potential to move but it would take a good offer to both and in-particular Adelaide for it to happen.

Here's the tip. If Garlett was ever truly rated top 10 someone would've taken a chance on him. He's small, unfit and not lightning, that combination makes it hard for you to be top 10 unless you are unbelievably good. As for Byrnes before a myriad of injuries he actually performed the best out of our small forwards in the first half of the year. He's over with some of the lads in Europe - Gawn, Evans, Frawley etc but I find it some what reassuring we have a pro from the Geelong system over their with the young guys. Remember the Geelong guys go to the US every year pretty much and now Bartel goes midseason as well. Would you not like us to have Bartel, Selwood or Ablett due to the fact they holiday? Byrnes also did enough to get into the leadership group. So yeah he's not quite up to AFL level and was probably a mistake but we had list spots to fill somehow and he did as much as any other sucker who player half forward for us all year. I don't see any reason to not support Byrnes. I'll cheer for him as much as any other player on Melbourne's list.

It's nice for them. But I think it also reflects that Adelaide still have the edge in midfield and half back depth of talent. Although Port with Hinkley have shown a great propensity to develop talent and the fitness guru is a key reason for Polec's decision I would say. He needs to go somewhere that he will feel like his body will allow him to play! Either Adelaide clubs would be very attractive right now for a player getting traded as long as you were happy to live in Adelaide.

Yeah I'd say so. But Adelaide could still be wanting to get some draft picks in. Looking at their list they've got a decent ruck, decent spine under the age of 24 (Talia, Otten, Walker, Jenkins) and some gun midfielders 25 and under (Dangerfield, Sloane, Crouch, Kerridge, Grigg and co) plus Van Berlo (27), Douglas (26) and Scott Thompson (30). Makes some sense they trade out Vince now and secure a decent draft pick so they keep bringing youth in to a very talented list. Just a matter of if they make the gutsy move. If I was them I'd do it for pick 20 for sure. Get one of the top 15 mids who everyone rates pretty highly.

Not sure he's that hard at it or defensive. And you wouldn't pick up a guy just to be sub unless you were on the edge of success. To me he's a guy we should be looking at in 12 or 24 months if we haven't sorted out the small forward role. Until then we should use our list spots for midfielders who we can develop through the forward line - guys like Michie and Lyons if we get them and our own guys like Kent, Taggert, Tapscott, Blease, Evans. Not to mention using a draft pick on a midfielder/forward who could end up much better than Nahas

If our midfield featured the quality of Fyfe, Hill, Mundy, Barlow, Crowley and so on and we were in the top 4 and had a coach who notoriously plays mature players over kids then you'd think the talent of guys not getting games in the reserve comp would be quite different to one of the worst teams in history. Not to mention Michie is coming off his first decent AFL preseason and is only 21 so still has a tremendous amount of development potential. I'm not calling him the saviour or expecting 22 games and him to be our 3rd best mid behind Jones and Viney but I do expect that if fit he'd play plenty of games. He also has skills and the ability to play half forward and midfield. All in all he's the kind of player we should've been drafting and developing and exactly what we need to get in so that our half forwards and depth mid positions aren't wasting each week on guys going backwards with their football - ie. Tapscott, Bail, Blease.

We think alike Wiseblood.

Not if they included Shiel. But could see them going pick 9 and Tom Bugg or Dom Tyson for pick 2. Get rid of a guy who wants to go home and let them get absolute class. They have the tall forwards but they don't have the midfield stars that GC have with O'Meara and Martin. They'd be keen for the absolute best midfielder

Kommer wasn't there in 2012 so I say that's BS. Pretty sure he'd be the last to leave. Could understand Myers wanting to leave due to a combination of midfield time and general dissatisfaction

i don't know if he does but common sense says he's 21, played almost a whole WAFL season last year of great footy. Freo would offer him 2 years so we need to give at least that. 3 wouldn't be silly. Smarter than 4 for Vince

We could get Myers on board but Essendon wont accept Pick 20 for him. I'm pretty convinced of that. If they wont take pick 22 for Crameri why would they give up a younger player who can be an important midfielder for them?

Tapscott is worth very little. Fitzpatrick is a promising forward/ruckman who based on the deals Jessie White, Stef Martin and Cam Pedersen are getting/got is likely to be worth significant value. Even more value in 12 months time if he dominates VFL and plays ok AFL. If he plays good AFL he'd be worth a second round pick easily. That's a lot to give up. No doubt Vince and Lyons are best 22 and Fitzy isn't (behind Clark for that second ruck position) but Fitzy improved so much in the last 12 months I'd be super keen to keep him. The depth option if Clark isn't fit is pretty shaky as well (?Pedersen or 2 ruckman?) Wouldn't Fitzy for Lyons be a fair trade considering their respective positions and how much they've shown in AFL. To me both have shown something at AFL level and played good VFL/SANFL. And Vince for 20 is fair to me. I'd say 22 and 36 for Vince and Lyons considering the crows then get back in the draft and get help to secure Polec is a fair trade.

Yep. We got to make him the offer in terms of $$$ and years that he deserves and then he has to step up and take it and play like it. Otherwise he becomes the Trav Cloke or BJ Goddard/Buddy Franklin of 2014 and is a distraction we dont need. Not to mention losing him for a compo pick only which potentially is a nice pick but doesn't replace a mature quality full back. Plenty of teams will be interested in him in 2014 and I'd see Gold Coast would lead the charge with a massive offer.

Anyone thinking that the 4th year on Vince's deal is a bit too desperate a measure. Would've preferred we only offered him 3 for more cash and got him interested that way. Maybe the 4th year becomes conditional on a number of games played in the 3rd? Bombers with pick 22 from Crameri surely the dark horse in securing Vince. Will make us give pick 20 I think.

If they go over the cap to pay Scully, Davis, Mumford and Heath Shaw I wont complain too much. It's more when they have to pay big bucks to keep their young players in a few years when they are winning that i'll be concerned.

1 year deal with an option for a second year if he played the required games wasn't it? But the increased intensity at training and in games at Hawthorn ended up with him breaking down. In some ways he was gutless just like he became on the field. The club had already seen that letting go Junior might have been a mistake and that if his body held up he would've got the second year. Not to mention he waited until after Junior was prematurely retired to then leave. I bet if the club knew Bruce was going at the end of 2010 they might have kept Junior

Michie, pick 40 I agree. But Vince and Lyons are going to take value. Roos did some cheap trades but he also gave up a bit. Pick 28 for Marty Mattner, pick 28 for Mumford, pick 15 for Jolly. Plus at Sydney he was often trading in strong drafts for mature guys who no one was really sold on. Vince and Lyons in some ways have more value than that and their contracts mean we have to pay up. Giving away both pick 20 and the Sylvia pick would be a shame but if it got the deal done then it might be required. We can't trade pick 20, 40 and the Sylvia pick for just players though. We need to get some draft picks back and preferably in the top 40 to get some more youth in.

I do like that they dude has blue and red whiteboard markers.

Yes sorry that's what I meant. And I wouldn't think so. Most players, no matter how good don't take over line coaching straight away. They usually go into development. Taking over the swans stoppages would be a respected position considering the talent available. Despite the COLA it seems Sydney is a great place to live (particularly short term) and it's not like Black is short of cash. If I was him and wanted to coach it would almost be the perfect first job. Could move and be a more senior assistant and midfield coach down the track on way to senior job

Regardless of how good they think Scharenberg is they are nuts to trade an in contract Shiel. He's their best young midfielder and will help them win games next year. I dont see it as us relenting but GWS relenting if Shiel is truly homesick. But I'd make sure he was properly home sick ie medically depressed and really needing to leave otherwise they are fools. For that reason I don't see it happening unfortunately.