DeeSpencer

I have to ask why are you on a footy forum talking about footy and interested in the draft yet your only watch Melbourne games. Considering how poor we've been on late that's an impressive level of dedication!But yes. Beau Waters is a hard as nails tough back pocket/flanker, Sam Mayes is a smooth moving, skillful utility who can play half forward, half back, wing and probably eventually midfield. So if a player is compared to both of them then that's impossible to know what he does well or not. The two I've read and seen on that list the most are Hugh Goddard and Jake Lever. Goddard is your prototypical tall developing prospect. He's got all the physical and footballing tools the question is just whether he really leaps out and dominates games. But he has skills and athleticism and you could put him half back or half forward. He probably reminds me of Lachie Henderson in that he'll end up a good player at a minimum. I'd say we'd be super keen if Frawley left and he was around and we had pick 3-6. Lever you'd like to see grow just a bit to 195cm so he's the right size but he's a natural key defender. Just one of those kids who's way ahead of the others his age at defending. But he's done a knee and missed this year. But he's like Col Garland as just a quality half back who will stop goals and get the ball going the other way. Whether you'd use a top pick on a guy coming off a knee who might be undersized and just a half back is another question.

The NFC west should now have 4 teams with excellent defenses, you could argue they might be the 4 best in the entire league all in one division. And none of them have the top range big money QB's and they are committed to the ground game. Going to be some epic games between those 4 teams this year. My early tip for playoff teams NFC West: Seattle South: New Orleans East: Philly North: Detroit WC: Atlanta and Arizona AFC: North: Baltimore South: Colts West: San Diego East: New England WC: Denver and Bengals

Jono Brown the most famous. Mark Murphy said thanks but no thanks.

Jack Viney is working out pretty well but I'd usually be against a coach picking his own son. How it differs here is that Roos will be out of the senior coaching job in 2 years and therefore wont be senior coach for his own son for too long. As long as Roos stays out of the recruiting process then I'd trust the recruiters. No nothing about the kid except he looks confident and I decent size when down at training helping out his old man.

Yeah they're trying to move it later to steal the limelight from the NBA but they are really just hurting themselves. I think the Texans want a trade but probably can't find one. I'm not buying the Atlanta move. I think as good as he's been they've probably learn from the Julio Jones trade that it's not worth it. Selling more of their future for Clowney would be a big mistake. They need an O line, TE, possibly a RB, third receiver and help all over the defense to win a superbowl not just one pass rusher. I'm hoping for their sake Cleveland hold strong and wait until their late first round pick for QB. Vikings as well got to be thinking about second round or later surely. I like Bridgewater, Carr and Murray just as much as Bortles if not more. Time for some NFL teams to head the lessons of Paul Roos and trading back in the draft!

The moral of the story is as always draft best available. I'm not overly impressed by having Jamar, Spencer, Gawn, Fitzy, Pedo as our ruck department and having to pick 2 of those guys each week. But at the same time I think you can win games with them. I'd also want another quality forward in the pipeline behind Dawes and Hogan. So there's room for a ruck and a forward and there's especially room for a guy who can play both at a high level. Of course you have to be careful drafting ruckmen early. I'd stay away from a number 1 pick on a ruck because at 18 it's very hard to measure the develop of any player yet alone a 200cm kid. But Wright is mainly a forward and in the Daniher mold. So I'm not adverse to him. If he's the clearly most talented kid then you take him. What I'm really hoping is we don't have the number 1 pick. We have to frank our form against Carlton (and even Gold Coast, GWS, Saints) and turn that into wins.

Lycette's a legitimate ruck. Sinclair can ruck a little but really isn't. With Cox coming towards the end I think the Eagles will be super keen to keep both and if one of them is a back up for injuries then so be it. Considering Nic Nat's injury status you'd want to have both available anyway.

9 days until the draft? Who do you want. Will teams learn a lesson from the 2012 draft class that wasting first round picks on questionable QBs isn't wise. Is Clowney that good?

Looking forward to them all. Particularly keen to see how Harmes and Hunt shape up at VFL level. I like Harmes at training he seems to have a crack at everything and could make a nice depth mid pretty adept at most aspects of footy. Hopefully he can put in some decent VFL performances. Hunt as well, some pure speed off half back would be great for this team. Obviously pretty skinny and raw but another who could develop nicely. If Georgiou is a confident and competent 3rd tall defender from deep in the rookie draft he must win the find of the year. JKH was pick 40 but he was also our second pick, we were obviously pretty keen on him and his training efforts were great he was switched on from day 1. But it's still early days for him. If he plays well he'll then draw interest from better defenders and so on. Have to remember it's not where these young guys start but where they end up in a few years time. And that applies to both rusty debut performances and great early career form.

Cleveland the other big movers replacing their safety in Ward with a more expensive one in Whitner and signing Dansby. They'll likely have a very good defense but still be limited by QB play on offense.

Not completely surprised he got another go considering he was a first round pick etc. But surprised the 49ers traded anything at all for him. And now they've followed it up with Jonathan Martin. Seems they believe in their powers to turn players around. Bears today got Lamarr Houston from Oakland on a 5 year 35 mil contract for the 26 year old DE. Seems more a solid run stopping DE than a big sack guy but he helps our defense. Plus we got a cheapish safety. And resigned our MLB. Still need to add another DE, DT, CB and probably another depth safety whether it's our own free agents coming back or not. There were some interesting deals around the league. The saints landing Byrd the safety. They might transition from a great offense no defense to a pretty good defense but not such a great offense. Broncos have been the biggest movers I think bringing in TJ Ward at safety and Aqib Talib at CB. And there' the favourites for Ware. That would give them some serious improvement on defense. Revis rumoured to the patriots. That would be huge.

I think we will have a clearer picture on the key forwards in 12 months time. We only need one of Clark, Dawes or Fitzpatrick to recover from injury/assert themselves at AFL level and when matched with Hogan and Howe we should be fine. If Frawley leaves we will be looking at a key defender. Either way we've got a decent relationship going with GWS and their young tall Kristian Jaksch who was a school team mate of Viney's is half way back to Victoria if reports are to be believed. It wouldn't surprise me if we keep doing trades with them just like this year and drop back in the draft in order to get some of their slightly more ready to go former high draft picks in return. I think Roos will continue to value pick 10 or pick 20 plus a ready to step up talent over yet another top 5 pick.

You said the reason Taggert was delisted had nothing to do with the coach or recruiters choice? Now you say it is attitude. Well isn't part of the predraft screening an interview and background checks to work out what guys attitudes will be like? Wasn't Taggert the one who sent Neeld an email about why he should be picked or something of the like? Either way I don't want to focus on the past too much but I'm sure character is one of Viney/Taylor's key recruiting principles.

Well care to spill? Personally I thought his skills and potential upside showed enough despite modest output. From the limited I saw of him, plus training, plus stats he certainly didn't get involved in games enough but seemed to have the ability in skills to mark, kick, tackle, handball etc. So if he got a preseason or two under his belt he may have taken it up a notch. There was also something a bit odd in that his VFL performances were reasonable and pretty much the whole list got a game besides him. I'd be guessing but I'd say it was either - His attitude/training/preparation was poor or - His body was a concern and thus they didn't think they'd ever get him to AFL fitness I haven't said anything about Neeld in this thread and not too many have. I've said BP was a bad recruiter but I've got no problem with that statement. His draft record (even influenced by substandard development) is pretty ordinary. Last I checked he's got a job at Carlton (not in recruiting) and is probably doing well. From my understanding he wasn't a specialist recruiter when Melbourne hired him and so I'd put the decision to hire him for that position as a club wide failure. That means the board and by extension us, the CEO, the coach (Bailey), the head of footy are all to blame. This thread was created to look back. It was a shocking time. Therefore the reflections will not be great. As long as the discussion is mainly about where and why not who then I don't see the need to be upset. Neeld and Prendergast will be mentioned, it doesn't have to result in outrage.

I'm hoping our tall forwards and rucks get fit and on the park this year and show what they can do. And of course that we sign Frawley. So for a needs basis to the team I think we will be looking at a young key defender to develop up as depth but besides that just getting the best available running players whether they are inside or outside mids or forwards or backs. Preferably we get someone who has versatility. A skillful left footed half back flank would be lovely to give some balance to the backline. And I wouldn't be opposed to another 205cm plus genuine big ruck prospect to develop in behind Gawn and Spencer. King looks good so far but at 200cm without a massive leap he's on the small side for modern rucks.

2011 draft in a nutshell - Rubbish draft due to GWS/Gold Coast picks and concessions - Rubbish recruiter in Prendergast - Rubbish coach in Neeld putting pressure on the recruiter to get experienced ready to go types in - Right call on Mitch Clark - We now have pick 3 from that Draft in Dom Tyson From the rest of the draft the players who I'd consider the real standouts are: Coniglio (2), Wingard (6), Ellis (15), Mitchell (21 F/S). There are plenty of other nice prospects - Patton and most of the other GWS boys, Adams, Yeo, Kerridge, Grigg, Brad Hill, Clay Smith, Sheridan, Sutcliff, Neale. Either way we've got Mitch Clark. We've got back in to the draft in getting Tyson who has shown enough to think he can be a top 5 or 10 player from the draft. It wasn't an amazing draft but there was enough there that with either pick 36 (Taggart) or 52 (Tynan) that you would get one guy who's at least shown something and is still on the list. Anyway there's a reason BP isn't still our recruiter and Neeld isn't our coach.

We all knew the SeaHawks defense was good, but who knew it was that good! They played lights out. The additions of Michael Bennett and Cliff Avril to give them the pass rush made all the difference today. And Wilson's early 3rd down percentage was insane. The Broncos D as I predicted were capable of stopping the run and creating chances to get off the field but after watching them take care of the Pats so easily I didn't expect the Broncos secondary to be torched on 3rd down by Wilson and his unheralded receivers. Injuries aren't an excuse as both sides have them but you can see that the Bronco's elite O line was showed up with the back up LT not up to it as well as the Broncos secondary not covering the injuries. Those two combined to make the game much harder for Manning and much easier for Wilson. Watching Wilson win a SB, Kap go close, Luck, Dalton and Newton make play off runs I do wonder if the new rules are making QB play a bit less important and the saving of about 16 million dollars on having a rookie QB instead of a Franchise QB is worth while. But then you see Brady, Brees and Manning all make the play offs as well. But then the teams at the bottom of league with rubbish rookie QBs (Minn, Buff, Jacksonville, Cleveland etc) will tell you otherwise. It does make me worried about my Bears. We've spent the 16 mil on Cutler so we don't have the money to spend on the top defense and we don't have the gun QB to show for it either. I feel teams with mid level veteran QBs on big pay cheques are stuck in a cycle they can't break or afford to break. Cowboys, Lions, Cardinals, Giants, there'd be a few who agree I think. Anyway this SeaHawks team was a massive victory for Carroll with his GM and his drafting and developing. They've pretty much drafted an elite defense with early and late picks and drafted a gun QB in the third round. The draft v develop question will kind of raise it's head but I think they've been outstanding at both. Carroll's bond with his players and his development of not only a select bunch of players but of the whole organisation as improving football players says a lot for a positive coach. I'm hoping the change from Neeld to Roos brings out a similar culture for us. The PED and Adderall issue does linger over this team a little though. They have to stay clean now to back it up.

Wow the highs and lows of this thread. From his initial anger at the medical system which you could kind of tell was his frustration but then his positive attitude through chemo and the follow up. As if tragedy can be any worse but I do wish we got to hear from him when things went south again. I hope people were there for him. Sadly in the nearly 4 and a half years since his first post Melbourne haven't become a good side and now reading about Watts, Scully and Jurrah depresses us all. But it sure gets put in to perspective. Also sad is that Dean Bailey late last year obviously found himself in a very similar situation to Twosheds.

But remember Kap probably has the best O line in football as well as the 3 quality receiving options in Crabtree, Boldin and Davis. Any above average QB has tremendous success with that talent around him and the 49ers defense IF (and it's a big if) they aren't playing Seattle in Seattle! For Seattle to win the superbowl they are going to have to run the ball on the Broncos which the Pats showed today is incredibly hard. I don't see Seattle getting enough offense unless Lynch gets over 100 rushing. Then their defense will have to get enough pressure on Manning. For the talk of their dominant secondary with Sherman, Chancellor and Thomas it wont matter because Manning will find mismatches on back up corners and linebackers, he simply has too many weapons. It's going to have to be the front 4 of Seattle stopping the run and putting pressure on Manning. My tip is low scoring and very close and one of the QB's will get a final drive to either cement the legacy (in Peyton) or make one for themselves. Could be a bit similar to the 2008 SB between New England and NYG.

As a bears fan I'm thinking Zimmer is a good hire who's defense can become the best of a bad bunch in the NFC North and then with a running game you can control games and be a reasonable team. Or that's what I was thinking until you hired Norval as OC!!! Chasing the franchise QB always seems to be the plan but with 2 years coming up playing outdoors I wonder if you aren't better off sticking with Cassell who I think can be ok. Use the first round pick on the best talent available and build a defense and the rest of the offense around ball control and run. Draft a QB in the second or third round when you aren't overspending and let them develop at whatever pace they need. That's the tactic that worked well for the two teams in the NFC teams playing today as well as for the Eagles.

Obviously the Seahawks defense is just amazing. And looking at that game I really thought it was like get to 20 points and you'll probably win kind of game. The Seahawks found a way to make amazing plays whilst the 49ers didn't. But I think a lot of it is on Kap. The first intercept was a shocker (then again Wilson had the fumble on the first play) and the end zone INT just wasn't quite a good enough throw. I get NFL players are a different bread of athletes than AFL or practically any other but I think Kap needs to ditch the headphones and casual clothes and shape up a bit. He just doesn't look smart enough to be a clutch QB and if you don't look it you might not be it. That's harsh on a guy who's a great talent but perception can be reality. At the same time Richard Sherman. Not sure if I hate you or love you but I'd gladly have you playing half back flank for the dees. Oh and Manning or a receiver will likely win the MVP if the Broncs win the superbowl but my tip for the real difference maker is Terrence Knighton the big DT from Denver. He was largely responsible for shutting out the Pats running game and he had a big sack. Plus his nickname is Pot Roast!

Marsh not had a shot? He's 30, played 7 tests. Has a shield average of only 35 and only 31 this year. Plenty of off field troubles as well. Marsh is selected because they want him to succeed not because he's earned it or shown any signs that he will. I really hope they play Doolan or Faulkner ahead of Marsh. The one positive of this squad at least is that by including 2 back up number 3's and a buck up all rounder the writing is well and truly on the wall for Watson. The Chris Rogers dream wont last for ever either I guess so within 12 months we could need an opener (?Marsh), number 3 (Doolan/Hughes) and have Faulkner in at 6. The other surprise is that they aren't taking Wade on this tour. They seem keen to avoid the question of who the next keeper is even though I think Wade has done enough to still have that spot.

Chiefs 27 Colts 31 - Chiefs the better team but I'm hoping for some Luck Saints 24 Eagles 30 - Too cold for the saints Chargers 13 Bengals 24 - Defense 49ers 16 Packers 14 - Defense

The AFC really is a bit of a mess isn't it. Denver and New England just don't fill you with confidence the way they play defense and no Gronk takes the pats offense down a peg. They have to do something about targetting knees. Not just a fine but a straight hit to the knee of a defenseless receiver should be a week off. Indy are shot and at the end of the day it's still Andy Dalton at QB for the Bengals. Can he beat one of Brady or Manning in the play offs? I'd say so. But two in a row like the ravens did last year? KC are every shot to beat Indy week 1 but then how do they beat Denver? They've tried twice and can't. And the last wildcard - Miami or Balltimore maybe, they shouldn't beat the bengals. The 49ers struggle the same way that Cinncinatti do when you talk about beating good teams 2 weeks in a row. They're every chance to beat whoever they come up against week 1 from the NFC North or East but then likely taking on New Orleans before then getting Seattle (or vice versa) - good luck with that. The play offs always throw up surprises but with their records at home I can't see how the NFC championship game wont be played at either New Orleans or more likely Seattle and how the home team wont win. I suppose the biggest factor is injuries that's about it.

And most of them have either been right or worked out right. But that was a head scratcher although Gould is one of the best kickers of all time so it's a huge surprise we missed it. Season is over now for the Bears but with our defense it's been over in reality since very early. Tough decisions coming up on Cutler, Melton, Peppers, Tilman and many others for the bears.