DeeSpencer

But if it's for merchandising they can make the named jumpers without the players wearing them on game day. If it's for name recognition does it really help much, on TV you can see a guys face which is better than a name, plus a commentator calls the players name. It doesn't have to be cluttered but it will be hard to make it both uncluttered and large enough to be prominent. I believe the Brent Harvey example I saw as cluttered. Personally I think all the kids at Auskick know the good players numbers and fans can access players names from their phones and on the bigscreen, you don't need a record. I think it doesn't add a lot. http://www.afl.com.au/staticfile/AFL%20Tenant/Media/Images/277512-tlsgallerylandscape.jpg See this photo from last years practice match at Casey. Their is already a lot going on back there. To fit the name on you probably bump the sponsor down, shrink the number and move it down a bit as well and then put the name in the red area of the back. All in all you end up with a lot of white detail and not as much red and blue.

For those who attended what was the take on Bartlett? He's still very much in his honeymoon phase and I like that he seems practical and happy to take a backward step but at the end of the day he's our representative. And despite their best intentions it seems the old board didn't pay enough attention to what was happening in the core business of the footy department and show enough understanding of the issues at play with the CEO and the poor structure of the footy department.

Roos' comment about not knowing how quickly they can rebuild the confidence of the playing group are interesting. I don't think it's a particular shot at Neeld, I think it's more a reality that no matter why they were at 2 wins and 54% that it's a long road to build confidence to believe you can win games or even compete in games against top sides. The counter is that each week we should have plenty of new guys - Cross, Vince, Michie, Tyson, Hogan, plenty of guys who weren't subjected to a prolonged period of failure - Viney, Toumpas, Terlich, Matt Jones, Kent and a couple of others who are practically recruits in Dawes and Clark. Add in the guys who could perform like Jones and Garland and you are starting to get the balance shift in the positive. Where hope comes in is that we need the strong performances to come before a fresh group get inflicted with negativity.

I think Clark is definitely out. Just no point risking him. The other 2 I'm leaning to rest as it's just not worth the hassle but I think you could make a case for both. Hogan suffered a jarred knee if it was in season he would've played a game already and Dawes had what was reported as a simple knee scope which again you can get back to playing with after a few weeks. Their long rehab periods I think have just been super cautious. But they have done very little full training which means they haven't done all sorts of strange and unpredictable actions that you only do in training drills and matches and not in controlled running. So for that reason I want to see them at least do most of the sessions between now and the game. I know there was no Clark or Hogan last year but I didn't really notice a direct comparison between Pedersen and Dawes and our form. We were rubbish with both, none or either. Dawes or Hogan in ahead of Pedersen will only impact how enjoyable the game is to watch not really the result. The result will come from midfielders willing and able to run, win the ball and use it.

We all knew the SeaHawks defense was good, but who knew it was that good! They played lights out. The additions of Michael Bennett and Cliff Avril to give them the pass rush made all the difference today. And Wilson's early 3rd down percentage was insane. The Broncos D as I predicted were capable of stopping the run and creating chances to get off the field but after watching them take care of the Pats so easily I didn't expect the Broncos secondary to be torched on 3rd down by Wilson and his unheralded receivers. Injuries aren't an excuse as both sides have them but you can see that the Bronco's elite O line was showed up with the back up LT not up to it as well as the Broncos secondary not covering the injuries. Those two combined to make the game much harder for Manning and much easier for Wilson. Watching Wilson win a SB, Kap go close, Luck, Dalton and Newton make play off runs I do wonder if the new rules are making QB play a bit less important and the saving of about 16 million dollars on having a rookie QB instead of a Franchise QB is worth while. But then you see Brady, Brees and Manning all make the play offs as well. But then the teams at the bottom of league with rubbish rookie QBs (Minn, Buff, Jacksonville, Cleveland etc) will tell you otherwise. It does make me worried about my Bears. We've spent the 16 mil on Cutler so we don't have the money to spend on the top defense and we don't have the gun QB to show for it either. I feel teams with mid level veteran QBs on big pay cheques are stuck in a cycle they can't break or afford to break. Cowboys, Lions, Cardinals, Giants, there'd be a few who agree I think. Anyway this SeaHawks team was a massive victory for Carroll with his GM and his drafting and developing. They've pretty much drafted an elite defense with early and late picks and drafted a gun QB in the third round. The draft v develop question will kind of raise it's head but I think they've been outstanding at both. Carroll's bond with his players and his development of not only a select bunch of players but of the whole organisation as improving football players says a lot for a positive coach. I'm hoping the change from Neeld to Roos brings out a similar culture for us. The PED and Adderall issue does linger over this team a little though. They have to stay clean now to back it up.

Agree. What I want to see is effort across the ground and I think if we get that then the scoreboard will be reasonable even if we field a modest 22 with some in reserve. Richmond have some talented players now as a side that should have ambitions for top 4 even if they aren't good enough. So if they out class us that's not a huge concern. I also doubt they'd put Riewoldt or Cotchin out there for more than a half if at all. Again it's the second week of Feb, it's just so early. Even though I doubt I'll last anywhere near the 18 days of the NAB Challenge I'm pretty stoked for footy to be back. And we should enjoy the Friday night opportunity even if it's preseason. Wish it was at the G I'd actually be super keen to get there, Etihad makes it less than 50/50.

No idea how technologically savvy you are and I understand that mobile data can be horrible at the footy but smart phones and the internet have removed that concern about who the opposition player is for me. I just load an app and check it that way. Just a tip.

Clisby Frawley Dunn Grimes MacDonald Strauss Watts Cross Vince Trengove Howe Blease Tapscott Pedersen Kennedy Harris Spencer N Jones Tyson Toumpas Michie Evans MacKenzie M Jones Jamar Rested/Unavailable: Clark, Dawes, Fitzy, Viney, Hogan, Terlich, Gawn, Kent, Riley, Garland Not picked: Salem, Hunt, Harmes, King, Georgiou, Byrnes, Bail, Nicholson, Barry, Jetta I think people are forgetting that this game is taking place on the 14th of Feb and we don't start playing for over a month. Therefore I've picked the guys who are fit but I see no point risking guys who haven't had a solid build up when it's over a month til round 1 and there are 2 more practice matches plus possibly an intraclub and/or VFL practice matches to come. This team lets us practice our stoppage play, our transition with the ball and our running. If we don't get the finish on the score board due to the forward line being down on talent that's not a particular problem. Most goals in preseason come from unheralded players getting in the right spots on weak opponents anyway - remember Sellar kicking 5 I think last year in Renmark.

In really good midfields you don't want to have too many players who are in the main clearance players as you need versatility and should get a range of midfielders who can win the ball from the trenches. I'm thinking the likes of Viney, Tyson, Michie, Jones and Trengove. But we are a long way from a gun midfield and Roos' game plan will always start with a stoppage focus. So after he builds his fitness back from injury I won't be surprised at all if Riley becomes a steady player in the team. Then it will depend on how much improvement he has. Just like Tyson and Michie he's had so little AFL experience it's hard to make definitive statements either way.

I understand the logic but my greatest concern is that one of our best players and a guy who can be elite at his position is waiting for the club to turn around. Why is there not belief already that things have changed? Where is his confidence that through on field deeds and leadership he can change things? Now part of that is also as a full back his main job is to limit the oppositions best forward and he's not the ball winning midfielder who can get 10 clearances and 30 plus touches and really break open a contest. And the other concern is that we've been through this all before when Neeld replaced Bailey. But compare it to Travis Boak who in Port's darkest hour had faith in his team mates and faith in the club. If Frawley truly isn't sure that things will change then doesn't that say a lot about the psyche of the players. If a gun like Frawley isn't sure how things are going to go how are lesser players meant to be confident to perform?

Barring injury Hogan, Cross, Tyson and Vince play round 1. Michie if he doesn't play round 1 (I'm pretty sure he will) then he'll play in the first couple of months. Aidan Riley will play if he can get back to his SANFL form where he was a clearance machine and racked up decent numbers of touches but first he has to get fit. But I'm pretty confident at some stage he'll play. Salem, Hunt, Barry and you can add in Harmes as well will depend on form of the team as much as their form. If the team is relatively healthy putting in consistently then it will probably take outstanding performances in the VFL. Kennedy-Harris is a bit different because he can play a specialist position that doesn't have any solid depth and because he could make a good sub he remains better than 50/50 I'd say to get a shot, but we haven't even seen him play against men yet. Georgiou also depends on injuries to tall and medium defenders. Multiple injuries at those positions and he will almost have to be picked. But he should be aiming to exert pressure on selectors with his VFL form anyway. Judging by his body shape and running/munting effort I'd say young Max King is a long way off but for a 200+cm ruck/forward that's not a concern. So I'm tipping at least 6 new faces with a lot featuring in multiple games to go with 7 from last year (Dawes, Kent, Toumpas, Viney, Terlich, Matt Jones, Clisby)

But that's oversimplifying how far back we were with Neeld. Bailey had failed in 4 years to fix the culture left of the Daniher years of coasting senior players. Moloney, Davey, Green all played on their own terms. Promising talent from the Bailey years had left due to unpredictable circumstances in Wona and Jurrah. Scully had fled and to save his own face to not look like he was leaving for money he allowed the notion of an unprofessional culture to be put out there. Our recruiting in the Bailey years was abysmal. I've got no qualms with Trengove, Watts and Scully but we were unlucky none of those top 2 picks were ready to go self made men. But we compounded that with what surely is recognised as overdrafting with Blease, Strauss, Gysberts, Tapscott and Cook. It will be interesting to see if Roos can rescue any of those guys. On top of that Neeld brought in Clark and Dawes and they had some back luck with injury. You can make the case for going for midfielders as a more important need first but the lift Clark provided in 2012 was tremendous to the whole club and could Neeld predict that Jones was the only mature decent midfielder on our list? The tragic thing about Bailey's tenure was that when it finished Neeld came in and talked about rebuilding the rebuild and none of us battered an eyelid. We were all too aware that Bailey's team was build on a house of cards and needed to be retooled. Bailey had horrible facilities and conflicting advise from above. Neeld had horrible recruiting and no supervision from a decent footy manager. Both are recipes for disaster. I favour Bailey because he was able to develop young players and produce some form of results but I'm not impressed by either of them.

Wow the highs and lows of this thread. From his initial anger at the medical system which you could kind of tell was his frustration but then his positive attitude through chemo and the follow up. As if tragedy can be any worse but I do wish we got to hear from him when things went south again. I hope people were there for him. Sadly in the nearly 4 and a half years since his first post Melbourne haven't become a good side and now reading about Watts, Scully and Jurrah depresses us all. But it sure gets put in to perspective. Also sad is that Dean Bailey late last year obviously found himself in a very similar situation to Twosheds.

Lack of conditioning and lack of both upper and lower body strength. Stronger legs will give him more power through the hips to stay up right and strong arms will let him push off with just his arms instead of leaning in. Plus more fitness will let him feel stronger and not be sucking in for air. Either way I'm not too concerned. Ruck technique takes years to learn and comes with the body needed. As long as he shows a desire for the contests his height will make him hard to beat.

whoa them some crazy words.Frawley an athlete type footballer? That's rubbish. He's not just an athlete because he's fast and might not be an amazing kick. Star full backs at the demons, what like Nicholson, Shanahan, Lamb etc. More rubbish. If Frawley leaves we are looking at a kid, trade (unlikely to find quality) or Pedersen at full back. That doesn't sound too good to me.

That's all up to Chip. If Hawthorn are top 4 and offer him big money then he might leave even with 8 wins, although given the ages of Sewell, Mitchell and Hodge that might be foolish. Or if Gold Coast finish around 8th and offer the same then he might go as well. The realities are the alternatives are just as important as what we do. Franklin showed that. He would've had a huge decision between Hawthorn and GWS until Sydney offered an alternative that gave him everything he wanted.

Did Trenners get back into it for the intraclub? Plus any reports on Vince or Michie getting the ball. Tyson didn't impress me too much in the circle work drill on Wednesday. He almost seemed bored with it. So glad he got involved in the match simulation. Sounds like the plan is to be pretty fresh for the Richmond game but that's fine with me. It'll be early Feb, way too early to get carried away.

Even if we get a top 5 draft pick I don't see how that gets us a better player. We couldn't land anyone with pick 2 this year, I'm not sure how we'd land a player better than an elite key defender in the prime of his career? The best we could probably do would be going back to GWS and getting one of their young highly drafted talls to plug in defense plus a swap of picks again.

Yep this. AFL trained. Appointed to CFO soon after PJ joined, I get the feeling PJ would be testing him out now to ensure he's right to go when PJ feels the need to hand over. I think the more important thing is to make sure Josh Mahoney is doing a good job as the head of football and to see where and when we place Roos within the organisation once he finishes his 2-3 years of senior coaching.

So "until he knows the direction of the club" is the convenient excuse to get him through to mid year until he can then postpone until the end of the year. Funny thing is I don't think it's about money as we can surely offer as much as any other club. If it's about success he should realise that leaving doesn't guarantee him anything. Look at Moloney, McLean or Rivers. They haven't won a flag and Rivers was awful in the finals last year. If we can't convince Frawley that things are improving then I don't see how we will ever convince enough players to play good footy. They should already feel like things have improved. Of course they will be jaded about results but come round 1 they have to run out there feeling like they will crush the saints. Also whenever journo's quote 8 coaches in 8 years it makes me sick because it's such a cheap way to make something sound shocking.

Midfielders: Michie and Tyson great value if they can get in the team and average around 20 touches they will rise in value by heaps. Both Grimes and Vince listed in low 400k with an average score around 80 but both can score a lot more than that. Toumpas and Kent worth thinking about if you expect break out seasons. Defenders: Again Grimes. Watts and Strauss if you are brave Forwards: Clark especially and Dawes if you are braver. Hogan should rise his value by a fair bit but I think he'll only average 60 so you'll have to trade him out once he's gone up in value Rucks: I'd stay away from our guys

Good question DD. I'm none the wiser. First nab challenge game on Feb 14 you'd think either Wednesday or Friday next week would be ideal for some practice match type activities. Given it's still so long from our first nab challenge until round 1 I wouldn't expect a full scale practice match but more an invitation to watch some match simulation.

Hawthorn and Gold Coast, possibly even GWS. The saints have just invested in 2 KPD in Bruce and Delaney and whilst they aren't as good as Frawley it's hard to justify after 1 year of getting them to go after a KPD just because his uncle played for the club. The vice captaincy probably wont keep Frawley but some wins will go a long way. Even near the bottom a club on the rise is still a very positive thing.

If there was a snub at all then it was Dawes I guess. But the 6 man leadership group is reasonable. Right now I don't think anyone else can be too upset. Viney should work on his game before stepping up to leadership. Same for Tommy McDonald I think. And Vince and Cross are expected to be leaders with our without a title.

That makes sense, but my point was more they aren't spending main trainings trying to work on highly specific tasks or on physical and unpredictable full match practice style drills. There's a mix of physical stuff usually at the start of training and some game style ball movement drills but mainly it looks like practical training when it's nearly 2 months until the real action. It's still patient Roos not all out stuff.