DeeSpencer

AFL clubs are not exploiting these areas and the areas can mount a case for a team of their own but they simply don't have the capacity to get one. If Tasmania wanted an AFL team all they'd have to do is stop buying games of footy for their people and carve out a business plan. Strong success by a team in the VFL (who would gladly accept a team of some of the best footballers in Tassie) would eventually lead to pressure on the AFL and a Tassie team would happen. But the way Tasmania, Hobart and Launy are it wont happen. Darwin is even worse. You are living is a fantasy world if you think relegation and promotion can exist in an equal competition. It's a sure fire way to make Coll, Haw, West Coast and a few others perrenial top 6 and the rest of the clubs a farce. In only their second year Gold Coast were competitive. In their 3rd (2013) they were pretty good. And they've been designed to build slowly for sustained success. The AFL and most supporters are comfortable with that (for at least GC, GWS have built too slowly and stockpiled too much young talent). The draft picks and tanking issue has in some way contributed to Melbourne being bad but there is certainly punishment for us being bad. Just look at our crowds and financial position. The AFL serves the teams and the game that is the point of having the AFL and building the empire slowly and expanding in to legitimate populations like Western Sydney is exactly the right move. Throwing open some second division and seeing who bobs up whilst existing clubs falter is beyond stupid.

Isn't David King coach of Carey? How will that work. Also APS schools paying former AFL players/coaches to coach the team is a bit of a [censored]. Just get one of the PE teachers who was a decent local footy and involved in local footy to do it. These AFL guys bring in all their terminology and training methods that should be kept away from kids who should focus on schooling. The elite ones can get footy knowledge from their TAC teams.

Agree rpfc. The crux of it is that new teams in the ACT, NT, Tas aren't expanding the comp. They are only diversifying the teams and really they either stretch the comp if it's teams added or if they take out a Vic team then they take away from highly attended games between two Vic teams. In terms of pure expansion it has to be where the people are which mainly means Sydney My guess of where we will be in 50 years depends a lot on Gold Coast and GWS. If they succeed we can add a 3rd WA and a 3rd NSW team. Possibly we will do that anyway whilst taking away 2 Victorian teams. Tasmania's biggest hope is securing a struggling Vic team.

So you'd ruin state leagues. Spend a bucket of AFL money on teams in an invented competition and ruin the even nature of the draft buy creating a scheme to allow players to be brought. Sounds pretty rubbish to me. ACT, Hobart, Launceston and Darwin are all getting a taste of real life AFL how it is and considering their market size they should be happy with that. Auckland gets passed up as the city for an AFL game for Wellington which is either due to stadium arrangements or possibly it's just not viable. New Zealand is a long term potential market for AFL but we have to conquer the rest of Australia first.

Well it might not decrease but I still think the immediate focus of most AFL clubs will be making sure there players aren't too heavy more than bulking up. Hawthorn and Freo are leading the way with pretty lean guys rather than the Geelong model of a few years ago. These things are circular but it all gets back to my main point that I'm not at all concerned about young Billy have a slight build.

It all sprawled out of control (which was mainly my fault) because someone said Stretch wasn't worth a first round pick as he's skinny. That then led to my comment that not only are skinny 18 year olds good footballers but players are getting lighter to cope with rotations. That then led to discussion about Ross Lyon game plan and rotations. Some of these are my favourite bug bears so I rolled with it.

No police should get more mental health training as I do believe as a society we are getting more out of control mental health patients. We should also equip more police with tasers as I believe we have as the technology is getting safer with them. And police should get even more tactical training and I worry about PSO's getting guns in the first place as well. Oh and parents should probably study their kids myspace pages and get a little worried when their child starts joining nationalist groups and posting about violence especially in the recent wake of the passing of his father. But if all goes completely wrong and a knife wielding person is lurching at police and the police can't run away without fearing they'll leave the community at risk then lethal force may be needed. Whether he's skinny, 15 and mentally unstable or fat, 45 and criminal is largely irrelevant to me. Police shoot mentally unwell 15 year old is a bad headline. But mentally unwell 15 year old murders innocent member of public or stabs police officer isn't better.

80's always been the mark talked about as a restriction. 120 was a compromise. It might not happen but it will be debated heavily next year. It's what KB wants. It's 3 grand finals because they are the games that were prepared for and set for. Leave out the grand final replay which is a ridiculous game in it's own right but that's another story. The saints that day were completely spent. They didn't have the energy for that game after their huge comeback the week prior. When people say 4 grand finals they make it sound like he's been to the last Saturday in September 4 times, but he hasn't he's been there 3 times. It just so happens once he got a draw and they played another game a week later which is such a strange phenomenon it needs to be considered as a different type of game. It's is a grand final replay not a grand final. 9. 14, 10. 8 and 8. 14 with bad kicking in the first and last of those grand finals including wind affected in the last one is not what I consider some horrible blight on the game score.

It's looking bad right now as GWS and Gold Coast took 40 of the best kids but if you sprinkle them in to the remaining 16 clubs giving the best ones to the bottom teams like us and some decent ones to the top teams it looks better. But in 5 or so years when the lists have equaled out at the expansion clubs (to a degree) then it will look very interesting. Hawthorn are one club who have paid the price of little depth to have a great best 22 but started young enough and sustainable enough for it to work. St Kilda sold out and landed in a mess. Sydney are now sacrificing depth of mature talent (and losing the chance at some young kids as well) for Franklin. QLD and NSW have to at least be providing enough that they'd fill their teams and expansion teams (so now 4) with talent if that's how it worked and we are a fair way from that. Each state kind of needs 8 guys drafted not 3 and some quality like Lenny Hayes would be nice!

Bean bags aren't in police standard equipment I don't believe (or even in Australia?) same with rubber bullets. The dog squad were presumably not readily available. I've already said police are trained not to shoot in the legs and there is good reason for that. Tasers were't standard equipment in 2008. Of course they should've tried to talk him down and get him to a reasonable state but remember he wasn't a sane kid he was clearly not in a sane mood and ready for a chat. Once again you are saying they should've done something better but not saying they could've done something better as the circumstances will never be known.

He had a large knife, had already threatened to kill people over the phone to 000 and presumably was posturing to use the knife against the police or the public. How do you restrain an individual on a rampage with a knife without him getting one stab in? Explain that to me. Stab wounds are deadly too remember.

The 120 is a trial for 80 I believe. So the increased fitness is in preparation of that. As for Ross Lyon he's had 3 grand finals. I don't buy the 4 grand final stat, it's inflating it to make him look bad. You don't draw the 3rd you dont get a 4th. And the Geelong game they were so close and really a Matty Scarlett toe poke changed that game. The Collingwood game they drew (in a game where both teams were built on defending first and forward presses) and a lot of their lack of goals in this most recent game was because it was very windy and they kicked (at goal and in to the forward line) so poorly in the first half. Fyfe nails 2 first quarter goals and their score is more reasonable and they are every chance at winning. Plus as someone at the game I think it was a great grand final. Freo had a few players overawed by the occasion that gave a dominant hawks side a lead but through some great play by Mundy and Sandilands and others they clawed it back and it was a tight fought contest in to the last quarter. Every game plan requires huge amount of running. Just look at North who ran out of legs at 3/4 time in all their games because their super attacking game plan was too tiring.

Once again I have to stop debating this but yes I do. It's just like 7 jurors finding someone guilty. If one cop shot him and 3 others said what the hell where you doing then that would've been much more frightening because that would've undoubtedly been a mistake.

I'm sorry to discuss the raw numbers like they are meaningless but do you not understand the point of lethal force? It's a very simple concept.

I think that's more because the surgeon was available and it's a pretty straight forward surgery. Just sew it all together and jobs done and he can't start rehab quicker. It's a serious injury because the calf muscle (which forms the achilles tendon) is out of action. So you have to take your time to make sure the tendon heals and then you have to build up the muscle as well. I think in the past some older players (who struggle with calf injuries anyway) are never the same after an achilles. That may have been the case. Either way I think NVB's season is all but over. As is the point of this thread the crows will in some ways now miss Vince more. But they have Dangerfield, Sloane, Thompson, Douglas and a fair raft of decent young mids (Lyons, Grigg, Kerridge, Crouch) who will get more of a shot now. They might be regretting delisting Aidan Riley as well.

Well as a reasonable person I'd call the police to remove you before I ran over you, although it would be tempting. And peaceful protests in public spaces usually go off without trouble in Melbourne as far as I've witnessed. In fact the authorities are so kind that they even close off streets in the city for protests and provide police more often that not to make sure that trouble makers who just want to riot stay away and the real message can be delivered. The G8 is one protest that for me is now known as a violent affair rather than a legitimate argument about the dangers of globalization. Same can be said for soccer hooligans. Soccer actually loses fans and support when they cross the line when the idea of them is to be passionate supporters who help the team.

You go on about the 7 times. They went against procedure with a warning shot after 2 rounds of capsicum spray then they used lethal force. There is no recommended number of shots. They shot him once. Lethal force is exactly that. Police don't get to pick and chose between 1 bullet to a non lethal area or 7 lethally. I believe it was actually 10 shots by 4 police of which 5 hit him. In some ways that is reassuring that the police were so concerned for their safety and that of the communities that 4 of them made a decision. You say it was the wrong one and I hope it was as well because that means things can change in the future but unless you were there how do you know? If you were a cop and someone ran at you with a knife and you had already used capsicum spray twice would you get willingly be stabbed or reach for your weapon?

This reporting seems to back my recollection pretty well. But yeah good argument. http://www.theage.com.au/national/two-knives-three-alarmed-police-officers-and-a-scared-little-boy-lies-dead-in-seconds-20081212-6xnm.html

I mentioned G8 and some of those other protests as they are controversial I agree. Your mate was either incredibly unlucky, reasonably stupid (did he miss a giant protest) or tried to take a short cut passed police to his job and the on edge police (as protesters are often violent at those sorts of protests) weren't in the mood for smart alecs. People sure have the right to stand their ground but they don't have the right to interrupt others going about their business. Surely you agree with that. You can't picket my driveway for the sake of protest and stop me leaving my house. My point is if you don't like your freedoms then maybe think about the rest of the world. As I said the police gets used to control things when the government or courts dictate that what others are doing needs protecting/policing. Your right is to vote. Actually your right is to even run for office. We've just elected a senator for the motoring enthusiasts. If you feel like starting a party that decreases the number of police or what they can do then good luck to you.

The trouble on a footy trip in Asia, a boozy night out at Hawthorn and on field suspensions for some rough but not super shocking incidents I would count as minor stuff. I'd say up until these last two incidents Campbell Brown, whilst not a cleanskin was a pretty decent citizen and hardly a footy bad boy. IIRC he had a big knife and wasn't afraid to use it and there was scrutiny and the relevant inquiry in to the polices actions. I'm sure the family were upset but most people in society accepted the police were not unreasonable but needed further mental health training which they got.

Rugby League should consider a second Melbourne team, but should definitely get a second team in Brisbane and in Auckland. That would get them teams in Sydney, Newcastle, Brisbane, Melbourne, Gold Coast, Townsville, Auckland, Wellington and they should cover Wollongong and Gosford as well. The combined populations if they get interest will sustain the game. Sydney might have the games on TV but GWS means people are actually going to watch at least some of them. It's vital for Foxtel who have heaps of subscriptions in Sydney and have most of the AFL games on Fox Footy as well as channel 7. League is a good game for TV, very suited for TV watching where as footy is decent on TV but way better live which in some way explains crowds. The ease of getting to the MCG/Etihad and getting big games helps explains footy crowds. The other reason the AFL needs a bigger presence in Sydney is using the population for talent. Stuff all talent gets drafted from the state of NSW. To sustain 20 teams but even 18 good ones we need more talent.

Personally I don't see much difference between Blease and Nicho. Blease isn't a great kick and can't find the footy or play with endurance. Nicholson is soft and really can't kick. But mainly I want to try Nicholson forward for his sake not the teams. I just see no point of him as a defender. As a defender he's on a fast track nowhere so where is the harm in trying something.

I'll question the police. I'm glad we have police integrity departments, media scrutiny and if it comes to it public outcry and protest such as what happened in North Queensland. But I can't remember the last time in Victoria there was even question over police using excessive force in a fatality. Yet as Stuie pointed out just last week 3 police got put into the Alfred ICU with severe burns just doing their job. Biffen wasn't promoting that we hold police accountable through protest but was actually suggesting that when a protest gets unruly that instead of backing down that when cops come in to control things that they should be abused and punched. He's obviously had a bad experience at a trade union, G8, save the trees, Tecoma maccas protest etc. I understand that's a trick situation where the cops move in to disseminate what usually start as peaceful protests but the other thing to realise in most of these cases is that the courts +/- have made a decision. Want to live somewhere where the law can encroach upon you? Move to North Korea when your own nephew can execute you when he feels like it.

We won 2 games, so I don't see the point of making sure our next captain is good enough for a grand final. Right now we need captains who will help us win games. If we get up to the 8 then we might have to think about that Nathan Jones - would at least be a depth midfielder in every team Colin Garland - 3rd tall defender capable of playing tall or short, attacking or defender, room for him to walk up in almost every backline in the comp James Frawley - one of the best full backs in the comp, would be in most teams Mitch Clark - might compete with Hale for ruck/forward in last years Hawthorn but at best wins that job for the Hawks and for almost every other team and otherwise could play as a forward or defeder Would be in most premiership teams Bernie Vince - skilled, pacy, would be hard to keep out in most 22's Jack Viney - his attack is relentless and whilst he wouldn't be clear best 22 he'd be in and around even the better teams Chris Dawes - you'd need a team with either 2 gun key forwards or 1 big forward, 1 ruck/forward and a quality 3rd tall to keep him out Jack Grimes - as a back flanker he racks up the ball, can intercept mark and is a tough physical player Jeremy Howe - on output alone would be borderline on premiership quality but his talents would be hard to keep out of grand final team

Politically incorrect post following so be warned. But haven't Aborigines been in Australia for 40,000 years? What did they do for the first 30,000?