DeeSpencer

The answer is you don't but 3 things that I've noticed: 1. New players 2. They are doing things differently - if somethings not working a change is often a decent idea. That's pretty much why we vote different politicians in here! But seriously there is a heap less running around the track and much more physical and skill based training 3. My judgement (and it is consistent with others) is that training is of a higher standard The first 2 are objective, the third is subjective.

Yes Clark Dawes Frawley Grimes Jones Maybe Hogan McDonald Vince/Cross Viney Tyson/Trengove/McKenzie My reasoning is as such. I think if 2 (or maybe 1) of the big key forwards are really up and about then the importance of Hogan drops off and he can just be a kid and settle in. Grimes as captain and defensive marshal at half back is important, although he and Garland preferably are a team as such. As is Frawley. Tommy McDonald as the guy who usually gets the 2nd defender not as important. Jones vital of course and then we need to have 3 other midfielders who can impact games more than Garland, but we are yet to see them.

Mainly agree, except I have some level of confidence with the backline due to Frawley and McDonald both looking good. Tommy Mc in particular is kicking pretty well and not showing any issues with shoulder surgery (except he could do with a bit more weight in time). Grimes as well looking good and Strauss, Clisby and Terlich in particular are all out there competing. They should all be better than last year and are fighting for one or 2 spots. Garland is a big miss but Dunn is the interesting one. If he can stand up and finally deliver on good training that he's shown for a couple of years then we could be ok. I've got no confidence in him really but he's fit, he trains hard and fast and he kicks the ball really well at training. If all goes completely pear shaped with our backline then Jayden Hunt is a prospect long term. For a guy who didn't play TAC at least he looks comfortable out there. Forward line is even more up in the air but I'm pretty confident on Dawes and Hogan right now. And Kent is back doing stuff. Plus JKH as everyone notes is impressive. Howe's doing well and Tapscott and Blease are out there. Same with Byrnes. So again it's not perfect but at least the numbers are there for some competition between the smalls. The 3 main problems we've hard in the Neeld years are: 1. Unable to get our hands on the footy 2. Unable to move the ball with skill which is often related to 3. Complete lack of run both in terms of movement at a contest, spread and follow up Judging on today's training there will probably still be days when we struggle to move the ball as the overall skill level of the group isn't outstanding. Which is true of most teams but it makes sense if it's against Freo or Sydney compare to against the Gold Coast like it was for us last year. But there will be run and there will be guys going after the ball at the stoppages and around the ground.

As mentioned the highlight is probably how much physical stuff they are doing. At least in the years I've been to trainings I have rarely seen much physical stuff at all and if it is done its usually tackling bags or pads. Almost every session they do a couple of drills that involve picking up a ball along the ground as another player lays a tackle then get the handball out. They then go in to grappling on the ground and today they added a bit of fun for the players. In pairs they'd link hands then have a strength test trying to whack each other in the head. It looked silly but it wasn't done in a silly way. It was just a bit of fun but competitive and interesting. Obviously the new recruits will help (Aidan Riley a big smokey as well if he gets fit and can show his stuff) but Roos seems intent on making sure our guys aren't bullied at the contest. The 3 main rucks were all back on track for some part doing some hit outs and were used as forward targets for a drill. With his long legs, added size and speedy bounds I'm telling you right now Jake Spencer is going to monster a marking contest at some point this year. He's got a heap of work to go in all areas of his game so I'm not predicting anything from him in terms of what improvement he's made overall but at some stage he'll either clunk a mark or break a pack in half and everyone will be surprised.

Big crowd, lots of families and dogs etc. Jamar, Gawn, Dawes and Kent all taking part in some drills. Leaves Fitzy, Hogan, Clark, Viney, Riley and the absent Garland as the true rehab group. Heaps of different and game specific drills done for short periods. Skills under pressure and fatigue the weakness but to be expected. Pressure application was good. I'll post more later

I think there's a certain degree of safety in awarding it to a respected celebrity or public figure as they are likely to protect the legacy and carry the pressure (if there is any).

I'm split on this. 22+ however million people and the best we can do is pick a footballer who does a bit of part time Indigenous work (he's hardly off the charts in charity work) and then is some kind of anti racism campaigner because he blew up on national tv over a comment he should've ignored. But then he is actually a decent guy and deserves it more than the likes of Adam Gilchrist and Mark Taylor.

Garland 2012 or before you might be right but not Garland of 2013. He was one of few who gave their all every week. And that's how you win games and eventually get to a step when you can think about premierships. You're showing very silly thinking talking about game breakers and premiership calibre players. Premiership teams are built around their outstanding role players as much as game breakers Frawley and McDonald may be more important as the key defenders but Garlands versatility puts him up near that level as well.

Because it's better pick 54 than losing him to the PSD. Then it's the same with Freo for Gumby. Essendon who actually needed 54 in a shallow draft were the real winners!

It's interesting, but the clubs have to tweak what they are putting in to get relevant results, therefore somewhat making it no different to just scouting a player. Baseball is much better suited because it's just pitcher v batter over and again. Obviously different pitches pitch differently and different fields have different dimensions but really it's a one on one battle time and time again. Football is such a 360 degree game with so many variables I don't know how useful it will be. I like the idea of comparing draftees to current players to get a guide on them, that is interesting. And I wonder if there is an overall stat that they can find that is of more value than any other.

I'd say that Garland's injury means that whilst we hope he'll be back for round 1 there's more opportunity for a medium defender in the preseason games. Considering Dunn is the only experienced player we have in that role I think Georgiou's importance is advanced. Jetta is behind a few other options for a small defender spot (Grimes, Terlich, Clisby, Strauss) and Harmes and King are raw. So whilst we don't need Georgiou in the side right now I do believe that Garland's injury is a small opening for him.

He was in the main group (for a lot of stuff) before Christmas. If it really is a hamstring prior to Christmas then you would think he'd be back in the main group in the new few weeks and then able to play some part in the preseason games. We will know soon enough I guess.

He was part of main training before xmas, that's where the optimism comes from.

350lb linemen wearing tight pants isn't enough for you Rob? Concussion would be the least of the NFL's issues is the fatties strip down to their jocks.

Some muppet benny_06 started the rumour on twitter. I just don't understand how if Clark was in trouble with the foot why he would be training in some capacity and not having a period off it. Of course the foot might not be out of the blue but surely there are too many people with jobs on the line to not take a conservative path. As far as I can tell the soft tissue injuries secondary to lack of conditioning +/- any gait changes is way more plausible than a repeat foot problem.

Yep and I think we should build from the inside to the outside and that means contested ball and midfield running first then we can try and fix the smaller stuff. Keen to see Vince play, he's our biggest impact recruit.

I think the initial focus will be sorting out the midfield and the ball movement from the backline to the midfield. If there's space in the forward line it makes that kick easier. If not then hopefully there's a tall forward to sit the ball to.The other hope is whatever combinations of small forwards are more skillful this year. The man of the hour Kennedy Harris suits that mould

they aren't not mutually exclusive things. At this stage if Dunn, Frawley and McDonald stay fit then Pedersen will stay in reserve

I suppose a positive is that it sounds a routine surgery and an injury that can be rehabbed pretty well. I wonder if it's related to the ankle he did late last year? Either way he hasn't been in main training so better to try and sort it now. Dunn looks the biggest winner. That third tall spot is his now. Other defenders have to step up. Might be an opportunity for Georgiou to show what he can do in the nab challenge

This thread got bumped because of Jake King. I really don't want to go down the LFL debate path again but you've just claimed that objectification of women is demeaning without much clarification. So are you therefor saying we need to remove all aspects of sexuality in human existence less it demean people? .

Haha. Listen I think King is a fool to be hanging out with Mitchell. And defying Richmond isn't smart. But at the end of the day it's his decision and largely his reputation at stake if something goes wrong. The club has warned him. And in a free society it means King can go hang out with him. But how stupid is Dwayne Russel. Does he not understand what outlaw bikie gangs do? It doesn't matter how good a bloke you are if you are a smart bloke you don't hang out with outlaw bikies. Dwanye Russel makes Jake King look smart.

Just thought the same thing. Not that skinny, not that raw. Wouldn't think he'd play a lot but then I thought you know he's fast and if he's hard and competitive then he might just be a chance at some stage. Main thing is he's on the track training so I hope he gets some nab challenge time.

Obviously we can't exactly brag about ours but a lot of saints fans would like to know about this Ross Lyon development program. I think a few of them would feel Ross is great at developing the best 22 but no so young players. As for Michie I think it's rational for the level of expectation to be on similar levels to Kent or Evans. There's a lot to like and a lot of reasons to be cautious. So cautious optimism is the best theory but that's ok. I'm really hoping he's fit and on the park for nab challenge and round 1 so we can see him play

Plus chris Dawes. But it's a year where we got a good balance of something for now and something for later. All depends of Toumpas, Kent and Barry. Whilst it might not happen we do have legitimate belief in Viney and Hogan as future stars. The Geelong dynasty was built on 15 or so gun players drafted/traded in a period between 1999 and 2002 I think. Scarlett, Mooney, Harley, Chapman, Bartel, Ablett, Ling, Corey, Enright, Mackie, Kelly. The saints good run really centered around Hayes, Ball, Montagna, Dal Santo, Riewoldt and Kosi all coming around the same time. No doubt that a crop of champions brought in together can be built around. So far we haven't turned top picks in to anything like elite players though so challenge is on for Roos. Hogan and Viney will be impressive if we can stuff them up. And there's still Watts, Trengove, Tyson, Toumpas and Salem after that!

As for the forward line watching Hogan and Dawes today they look fit and ready to go. Dawes did some marking stuff with Kent post his running and then got Miller to kick him a few high balls to grab before goal kicking. I think it's already been mentioned he's only a week or so til back doing footy stuff and it looks that way. Same with Hogan. I get the feeling that if we were in season and Hogan jarred his knee in a game that he would be playing this weekend or next at worst. Clark's harder to judge. There's no obvious sign of any problem with him but he does seem to be on a more restricted program than others. Byrnes is back in main training. Blease is training very well. JKH the same. Tapscott was in main training and is doing a fair amount of work in rehab. Howe is going really well. Come round 1 right now it looks like we will have at least Spencer to ruck and then Hogan, Dawes, Howe and take your pick of a few options for the smalls spot. What we don't have is the second ruck/key forward spot sorted yet. There's still lots of time but Clark, Fitzy, Jamar and Gawn all seem a while away. But that's not the end of the world. We can make do with Pedersen or use Dawes or Hogan as that back up. It's one spot in 22 and if we lose round 1 it's not much of an excuse.