DeeSpencer

And another point to this ludicrous topic - this is the new PJ era as CEO, football is our core business not promotional videos and articles because no matter how well they are written and produced they wont sell as many memberships or get people to games like wins will. I'd love us to have the biggest and best media and communications team in the AFL but first we need the best coaches and fitness staff.

I always think these things are done to satisfy the masses and not the really engaged supporters that we are on demonland. We always want more info than the club wants to give. Same goes for the injury updates from Dave Misson.

How to win a game without a star mid...besides that they have one in Mitchell. And a depending work horse in Sewell. And Luke Hodge. And Jordan Lewis who stepped up big time in the grand final. And one of the best running wingman in the game in Smith. The run of Brad Hill. The luxury of Shaun Burgoyne. I get that Hawthorn don't have an all conquering midfield but they must be still a top 4 unit.

Strange turn of phrase from the burgatron but technically correct I believe. Progressing positively would be much more common and clearer.

That was after Robbo's first year though right? When he then got fit and within 6 years might have even won a B+F? If Jetta makes it back on the senior list it will be Lazarus like. 4th round rookie talents don't make it very often so I'm not unhappy that we kept Jetta, one thing he can do is support Dom Barry and JKH and maybe that additional leadership that comes with being the most experienced Indigenous player might actually help his own game.

You can only pick 22. No point promoting someone if they wont play and therefore if you aren't going to promote someone may as well leave the injured player on the main list in case they make an early recovery. Also I think promoting a rookie comes with a pay rise so no point incurring the cost if you wont get any return from it. By the way as Riley got injured in a game my understanding is he'll be getting match payments until he returns to the VFL so we will want him back as soon as possible from a financial point of view.

Being demoted to the rookie list is a good indication it's pretty much closed. Really I think he's just too short and slow for AFL unless he has some extra top attributes. I understand moving him to the backline to make use of his tackling and trying get him more ball but I don't know how you get a game as a small defender if you don't have some size or speed.

Don't mind Adelaide - I actually like a lot of their current players and the way they play. Haven't dealt with their supporters much Brisbane - They were good champions and good to watch in their 3 peat and now have been pretty irrelevant Freo - Got some players who are great to watch and they play hard. I've got a respect for them right now Port - young midfield, exciting come back wins, besides their bogan supporters I don't mind them Western Bulldogs - I like the battlers from out west as long as they stay there. I like a club with some soul Gold Coast - G Ablett and some young talent and they built a competitive team and trained them up I don't mind them (at this stage) Dislike Richmond - because they are Richmond. Sydney - their COLA allowance and a decent dose of whinging if they don't get looked after annoys me GWS - they deliberately set up a team to lose to focus hard on a premiership and manipulated the rules as hard as they could West Coast - they definitely tried to hide that a large number at their club had drug problems and they seem to have a list of front runners right now. And their Melbourne fans are massive bandwagoners Geelong - I hate they because of how good they've been but I respect them for the same reasons St Kilda - annoying supporters, annoying players, stupid off field antics, dumb on field decisions and got their stuff in order and developed an elite group of young players - Riewoldt, Kosi, Ball, Goddard, Dal Santo, Hayes, Montagna and more and still couldn't win Hate Carlton - Cheats and bullies Collingwood - Because they are Collingwood Essendon - Combine Carlton and Collingwood and that's how I feel about Essendon Hawthorn - Mainly I hate their supporters. They aren't the family club. They are the brat kids, painful parents, spotty faced teens and arrogant young adults club. Plus Al Clarkson should be known as one of the great coaches but instead is such an angry belittling man North Melbourne - I hate them because right now they have got so many things right that at the same time we have stuffed up. Especially drafting and list management. Brad Scott's whinging doesn't help their case, nor does Boomer Harvey. For a small club that were on their knees a few years ago I think it's time for some Melbourne fans to swallow a bit of humble pie with North. Every time I see some muppet on here refer to them as 'Norf' I think we should show some respect until we can beat them

King - miles away, no. Harmes - maybe give him a shot in the NAB cup but I'd be shocked and also disappointed if he's in the team as a back up mid/forward from day 1. So it comes down to Jetta and Georgiou. Right now locked in for our defense would be Frawley, McDonald and Grimes. The other 3 spots will come from Garland (if he's back in time) and then take your pick of Dunn, Clisby, Terlich, Strauss and guys like Jetta and Georgiou. So I'd give them a shot in the NAB challenge to see if the make it but I doubt it. Dunn's 2013 whilst full of usual Dunn mindless football should still be good enough to have him in front of Georgiou. And the same can be said about Terlich and Clisby for Jetta. I think a lot of us have a soft spot for Jetta because he's a great tackler and has really nice evasive agility skills. But he's also very short meaning he can only play on the smallest of resting midfielders and small forwards, he's not very good at finding the ball, he doesn't break the lines with run and his kicking can be neat and tidy but he seems to max out at about 40m distance. I'm tipping no one gets elevated unless we get injuries to our backline.

No part I was just putting a statistical case to my point of view. Do you have an estimate number of goals you are bullish about him kicking? I'm thinking 25 goals justifies the hype and is a fantastic effort yet is still cautious in terms of how many matches he actually impacts. You are keen for him to play every game and to impact matches and by that I presume you mean at least 5 or so games where he is at the pointy end of the best players. Does that mean 40 goals?

So Aidan Riley goes on the LTI list. Right now I don't see the rookie promotion getting used but it's a little carrot to Jetta and Georgiou to keep training hard and maybe get a shot in the NAB challenge. Particularly Georgiou is worth seeing in the Nab challenge I think. He's an unknown commodity, Garland is injured, key position depth is limited, let's give a third tall defender known for shut down work a shot. Maybe start Frawley on Riewoldt if he plays and then at half time put Georgiou on him for a bit of a baptism of fire.

Cameron: 16 games, 10 disposals, 29 goals Franklin: 20 games, 10 disposals, 21 goals I'm pretty sure they would be the best 2 junior seasons by young forwards since 2000. Doubt the other top line forwards would be even close to that and that includes Cloke, Roughead, Josh Kennedy, Tippett, Hawkins, Riewoldt(s) - noting Nick played back early. 18 games, 25 or so goals, a bag of 4 or 5 and maybe another game where he takes 8 or 10 marks as a half forward target will be a super season from the young man.

I'm being cautious with Hogan. After watching Daniher - last year who's VFL performances weren't too far off Hogan - struggle with the pace of AFL I'm more cautious. Hogan is obvious a superior athlete in terms of speed, strength and fitness and has had the extra preseason but he's still so young for a key position player. I expect a few games that make us really excited but a lot that aren't overly special.

No you need some sort of identification for the fans and officials so numbers are important. But you could make a case for names and scratching the numbers but you'd find numbers are much easier to recognise from a distance. Anyway I'm happy there's a trial. I think it should be implemented for this 18 days of NAB challenge, in fact it makes perfect sense to do it in the practice matches when the commentators struggle to pick the players most of the time. I'm just not convinced it will add anything on a permanent basis.

Wont be a disaster compared to 2 wins but what if we were awful in the first half of the year, didn't win a game and then won 4/11 on the way home including beating a finals team and pushing others until the last quarter and ended the year with a percentage in the mid 80's. Possibly a bit unlikely but not totally unprecedented. Personally I'm setting the bar at a percentage of 80%. If that only means 4 or 5 wins and even if that means we go down early in games before adding cheap goals later in games to get respectful margins then I'll still take it. Losing sucks. But being incompetent and never even been in games sucks so much more.

If we win 9 games that would likely put us ahead of about 5 other teams. I'd like to know which other teams our list is stronger than because besides GWS (who will also improve from last year) and St Kilda I think every team still has an edge on us. As a starting point I'd argue every team in the comp besides GWS has at least 1 midfielder better than Nathan Jones OR at least 2 or 3 players at the same level as him. Plus GWS have Callan Ward who is equal to Jones. Until Hogan, Viney, Toumpas, Salem get 50 games and a few others step up a notch we really haven't added too much immediate impact. Vince replaces Sylvia, Cross is much more consistent than Rodan and then we've added Michie and Tyson with combined experience of about half a season. Those changes might result in 1 extra win but the improvement of the group in total can still improve by 30 percentage points and get 3 more wins (a significant improvement) and we are looking at 6 wins not 9. I think talent wise we are on track for a percentage of about 85% with the likelihood over the next few years of developing much more in the midfield and actually being better than the average and making the 8. But the first step for this year will be getting in to games and building confidence. Mainly I'd ask why would you be annoyed if something doesn't happen when Roos has just come out and said don't expect things to change over night.

I don't like your tone. You've dismissed my arguments fair enough but of course they are subjective, it's putting a name on a jumper it's a subjective thing. And I never mentioned anything to do with comfort with change. I'm all for change if I think it's a good idea. What about that it detracts from the team nature of the sport. For that reason several of the bigger college football teams in America don't have the names on the jerseys.

But if it's for merchandising they can make the named jumpers without the players wearing them on game day. If it's for name recognition does it really help much, on TV you can see a guys face which is better than a name, plus a commentator calls the players name. It doesn't have to be cluttered but it will be hard to make it both uncluttered and large enough to be prominent. I believe the Brent Harvey example I saw as cluttered. Personally I think all the kids at Auskick know the good players numbers and fans can access players names from their phones and on the bigscreen, you don't need a record. I think it doesn't add a lot. http://www.afl.com.au/staticfile/AFL%20Tenant/Media/Images/277512-tlsgallerylandscape.jpg See this photo from last years practice match at Casey. Their is already a lot going on back there. To fit the name on you probably bump the sponsor down, shrink the number and move it down a bit as well and then put the name in the red area of the back. All in all you end up with a lot of white detail and not as much red and blue.

For those who attended what was the take on Bartlett? He's still very much in his honeymoon phase and I like that he seems practical and happy to take a backward step but at the end of the day he's our representative. And despite their best intentions it seems the old board didn't pay enough attention to what was happening in the core business of the footy department and show enough understanding of the issues at play with the CEO and the poor structure of the footy department.

Roos' comment about not knowing how quickly they can rebuild the confidence of the playing group are interesting. I don't think it's a particular shot at Neeld, I think it's more a reality that no matter why they were at 2 wins and 54% that it's a long road to build confidence to believe you can win games or even compete in games against top sides. The counter is that each week we should have plenty of new guys - Cross, Vince, Michie, Tyson, Hogan, plenty of guys who weren't subjected to a prolonged period of failure - Viney, Toumpas, Terlich, Matt Jones, Kent and a couple of others who are practically recruits in Dawes and Clark. Add in the guys who could perform like Jones and Garland and you are starting to get the balance shift in the positive. Where hope comes in is that we need the strong performances to come before a fresh group get inflicted with negativity.

I think Clark is definitely out. Just no point risking him. The other 2 I'm leaning to rest as it's just not worth the hassle but I think you could make a case for both. Hogan suffered a jarred knee if it was in season he would've played a game already and Dawes had what was reported as a simple knee scope which again you can get back to playing with after a few weeks. Their long rehab periods I think have just been super cautious. But they have done very little full training which means they haven't done all sorts of strange and unpredictable actions that you only do in training drills and matches and not in controlled running. So for that reason I want to see them at least do most of the sessions between now and the game. I know there was no Clark or Hogan last year but I didn't really notice a direct comparison between Pedersen and Dawes and our form. We were rubbish with both, none or either. Dawes or Hogan in ahead of Pedersen will only impact how enjoyable the game is to watch not really the result. The result will come from midfielders willing and able to run, win the ball and use it.

We all knew the SeaHawks defense was good, but who knew it was that good! They played lights out. The additions of Michael Bennett and Cliff Avril to give them the pass rush made all the difference today. And Wilson's early 3rd down percentage was insane. The Broncos D as I predicted were capable of stopping the run and creating chances to get off the field but after watching them take care of the Pats so easily I didn't expect the Broncos secondary to be torched on 3rd down by Wilson and his unheralded receivers. Injuries aren't an excuse as both sides have them but you can see that the Bronco's elite O line was showed up with the back up LT not up to it as well as the Broncos secondary not covering the injuries. Those two combined to make the game much harder for Manning and much easier for Wilson. Watching Wilson win a SB, Kap go close, Luck, Dalton and Newton make play off runs I do wonder if the new rules are making QB play a bit less important and the saving of about 16 million dollars on having a rookie QB instead of a Franchise QB is worth while. But then you see Brady, Brees and Manning all make the play offs as well. But then the teams at the bottom of league with rubbish rookie QBs (Minn, Buff, Jacksonville, Cleveland etc) will tell you otherwise. It does make me worried about my Bears. We've spent the 16 mil on Cutler so we don't have the money to spend on the top defense and we don't have the gun QB to show for it either. I feel teams with mid level veteran QBs on big pay cheques are stuck in a cycle they can't break or afford to break. Cowboys, Lions, Cardinals, Giants, there'd be a few who agree I think. Anyway this SeaHawks team was a massive victory for Carroll with his GM and his drafting and developing. They've pretty much drafted an elite defense with early and late picks and drafted a gun QB in the third round. The draft v develop question will kind of raise it's head but I think they've been outstanding at both. Carroll's bond with his players and his development of not only a select bunch of players but of the whole organisation as improving football players says a lot for a positive coach. I'm hoping the change from Neeld to Roos brings out a similar culture for us. The PED and Adderall issue does linger over this team a little though. They have to stay clean now to back it up.

Agree. What I want to see is effort across the ground and I think if we get that then the scoreboard will be reasonable even if we field a modest 22 with some in reserve. Richmond have some talented players now as a side that should have ambitions for top 4 even if they aren't good enough. So if they out class us that's not a huge concern. I also doubt they'd put Riewoldt or Cotchin out there for more than a half if at all. Again it's the second week of Feb, it's just so early. Even though I doubt I'll last anywhere near the 18 days of the NAB Challenge I'm pretty stoked for footy to be back. And we should enjoy the Friday night opportunity even if it's preseason. Wish it was at the G I'd actually be super keen to get there, Etihad makes it less than 50/50.

No idea how technologically savvy you are and I understand that mobile data can be horrible at the footy but smart phones and the internet have removed that concern about who the opposition player is for me. I just load an app and check it that way. Just a tip.

Clisby Frawley Dunn Grimes MacDonald Strauss Watts Cross Vince Trengove Howe Blease Tapscott Pedersen Kennedy Harris Spencer N Jones Tyson Toumpas Michie Evans MacKenzie M Jones Jamar Rested/Unavailable: Clark, Dawes, Fitzy, Viney, Hogan, Terlich, Gawn, Kent, Riley, Garland Not picked: Salem, Hunt, Harmes, King, Georgiou, Byrnes, Bail, Nicholson, Barry, Jetta I think people are forgetting that this game is taking place on the 14th of Feb and we don't start playing for over a month. Therefore I've picked the guys who are fit but I see no point risking guys who haven't had a solid build up when it's over a month til round 1 and there are 2 more practice matches plus possibly an intraclub and/or VFL practice matches to come. This team lets us practice our stoppage play, our transition with the ball and our running. If we don't get the finish on the score board due to the forward line being down on talent that's not a particular problem. Most goals in preseason come from unheralded players getting in the right spots on weak opponents anyway - remember Sellar kicking 5 I think last year in Renmark.