Dr. Gonzo

It's not just compromised due to covid it was already heavily compromised with about 20 father/son and academy selections tipped for selection

Green was always going to the Giants, we never had any chance to get him.

Nope that's not how you judge draft pick trades. You judge them based on what was known at the time not what is known 15 years down the track.

I posted this in another thread with some long-winded rationalisations In: Jetta Jones Weideman Bennell OMac/Brown Out: Viney/Brayshaw Smith Lockhart Vandenberg Hunt This is what I would do this week to try and address some of these issues; 1 An extra key forward into the side - whether that is Weid or Brown or even Jackson we need another big body down there to at least compete if not take the mark. I would go with Weid bur we have the option of playing both Weid and Brown, moving TMac to defense and dropping Smith 2 following on from 1, Joel Smith should be dropped. Simply not good enough especially in a key defensive post. Maybe as a 3rd tall but we already have Lever in that role. Smith should be injury insurance for Lever and nothing more. We can either move TMac into defense if we bring in 2 key forwards or drop Smith for OMac if we bring in only 1 key forward. 3 Bring in Bennell. I don't care if he's underdone or if he needs to work on his defensive efforts. Other small forwards get games with continual poor defensive efforts without offering anywhere near the upside Bennell brings. Whether he comes in for Hunt, VDB or Melksham, take your pick. I'd bring him in for Hunt at this stage, he did nothing the last 2 games 4 bring in Jones - for all his faults Jones does have some composure and is a relatively decent kick. He can come in for one of VDB or Melksham. Melksham has been rubbish so far but he offers more upside than VDB as he has the capacity to kick 3 or 4 goals. Therefore I'd being in Jones for VDB 5 start Harmes in the middle. He was unsighted on Sunday until moving into the middle in the last where he was one of the reasons we got going. Viney or Brayshaw can make way for him at the moment. Petracca is currently our best player and Oliver for all his faults can actually win the ball. Oliver is on thin ice too but he is preferred over Viney at this stage who has hit a wall 6 bring Jetta in - Harmes to the middle makes way for Jetta in defence. Similar to Jones he offers composure and a relatively decent kick coming out of defense. He doesn't have a laser kick by any means but he often makes the sensible choice which is why he has such a high DE% 7 - If Brayshaw plays over Viney give him more time in the middle - i haven't noticed Brayshaw much this year which could be a good or bad thing depending on your perspective. I think he deserves an opportunity to at least show what he has, I think he's the type of player who thrives on the responsibility Another consideration is ANB in for Lockhart. I'm not wedded to this one though but if we are going to play Lockhart it needs to be forward of centre. I guess that means my squad would look like this FB Jetta May Lever CHB Salem TMac/OMac Hibberd C Tomlinson Petracca Langdon CHF Jones Brown/TMac Hannan FF Pickett Weideman Fritsch Foll Gawn Harmes Oliver I/C Melksham Bennell Viney/Brayshaw Rivers https://demonland.com/forums/topic/48397-garry-lyon-melbourne-supporters-are-gutted/?do=findComment&comment=1832077

Pert and Bartlett need to have a media presence right now. Bartlett did SEN last week and good on him but it needs to be more frequent, especially now when the supporters are ready to burn the place down. They may think they are being smart by not making media appearances unless they have a reason to spruik something but it is extremely poor leadership. Supporters need encouragement and to know that the club is in good hands, they need to know that the President and CEO have options and will make moves if things don't turnaround. Supporters are fuming at the moment and it will cost us another 5-10k memberships next year. Nevermind trying to raise another $700k this year

He COULD be a star

Agreed. The other thing about the see ball get ball types is they don't spread once we do win the footy - for all the praise we get for being a good contested side our structure around the stoppages is terrible. That's why we often handball to someone under the pump etc because they are running alongside the ball carrier instead of moving out 5 meytes to stretch the opposition defence around the contest. I think it was Good Coast who did this really well a few times on the weekend - they have players ready to go 5-10 metres off where the player who wins the ball is standing and they move it quickly with 2 or 3 handballs to get the kicker into space. Our guys handball 2 or 3 times within a phonebox and then bang it on the boot without looking because the kicker is still under pressure to get rid of the footy. This comes with composure and not manic "attack the footy" mentality.

No thank you

What changes were actually made? I'm sure some were but it was more shuffling deck chair. Rooke was moved from forward coach to a development coach? Rawlings, Jennings and McCartney are gone. Rooke, Mathews, Plapp, Chaplin, Egan and Mahoney are all still there. Richardson has been brought in to replace Macca and I am not sold on him. We were also meant to have Stafford and Lewis in development roles though they don't appear on the club's website so could be casualties of reduced expenses over the last few months. It seems not much has changed at all - all of our assistant coaches were there before last year's review and most have been there since 2016.

I agree there is no way Viney will get dropped but that is what I would do for a couple of reasons. Firstly it makes a statement. I think we need to drop a "big name" and I would rather drop Viney than Oliver at this stage. We could drop Brayshaw and keep Viney in but that feels more scapegoat than statement. Brayshaw hasn't been given the same midfield time as Viney has this year and as I said in my post I would prefer to try and give him more time there to see whether he can turn his form around. Secondly, Viney is one of the main culprits in killing our momentum with poor decision making. In the first minute or two on Sunday he stopped and handballer backwards putting a teammate under pressure instead of chipping the ball inside to Gawn. Turnover resulted in Richmond's first goal. Another instance in the second (?) quarter he had the ball along the southern stand wing heading towards the city end. Didn't know what to do with it and just bombed it out on the full. Thirdly early in the last he wins the clearance and bombs it into forward 50 burning Hannan on the lead 40 out. Balta takes another uncontested mark due to Viney's poor decision making. He also seems to go missing for large parts of the game particularly in those quarters where we have trouble scoring. I'm also worried that he is still stewing on the captaincy but have nothing to prove that. Perhaps dropping him will be the wake up call he needs that he needs to play to his strengths and focus on being smarter with the footy. He is our vice captain, if he is given free reign to blaze away without thinking and other players are constantly in and out of the side what sort of message does that send? Playing favourites. On Jones, he is definitely prone to bombing the ball - but he also can spot up a kick inside 50 and has the experience to be a bit more composed with the footy and look for the angle kick to open up the field. Playing across half forward should see him less likely to bomb it in compared to playing midfield, half back or wing as he did last year. We need some cool heads out there and Jones and Jetta are must inclusions for me for that reason.

I thought Stafford was solely focused on "goal kicking" not being a forwards coach. Either way he isn't listed on our website so maybe he's been cut?

That doesn't mean he is articulate in his footy analysis though and I agree with Praha he is all about emotion and cliches, he rarely offers any real insight. We are in need of a forward coach if Schwarta has any spare time though, just sayin.

At the risk of reopening old wounds qI wholeheartedly disagree that the players in 2012-13 played with 100% effort and endeavour. They picked and chose when to go, when to make position, when to run to create an option, when to run to defend etc I agree with your general sentiment though.

Watching the game yesterday I felt it was all on the players. Against the Cats that was on Goodwin, but yesterday we had enough of the ball, our intensity and attack on the footy was good. We just keep shooting ourselves in the foot with our turnovers and poor decision making. Late in the first quarter we had dominated, Richmond had barely had it forward except for the first minute or two. But we had only kicked 2 goals. Richmond kicked their first goal off an idiotic Viney turnover, and from memory they then kicked two goals to finish the quarter off our errors as well. We kicked one back on the siren to basically level it up at quarter time when we should've been 3 or 4 goals ahead. So we are getting enough of the footy. The players came into the game with the right mindset. But the turnovers are crucifying us. Is it because the players just aren't up to it? Are they being coached out of taking the best/right options? Can they turn things around with a fraction more composure? Having said that Goodwin and the coaches do not get off the hook. It is up to them to make gameday moves to try and get the fire started, try and fix these things during the game so that we can actually give ourselves a chance of winning instead of accepting defeat and going back to the drawing board during the week. Goodwin absolutely has ultimate responsibility for failing to make any moves on match day or rectifying things at half time to try and get the players focused on how to turn it around. But I can also see why he would want to persist when if it weren't for some pretty basic errors resulting in turnovers and goals we would be on top. It's a bit of a catch 22 - you can see that what you are doing is working to an extent so do you persist and try and reinforce the gameplan you want played and trust the players to start executing better? Or do you move things around to try and get the short term win on match day but sacrificing your long term gameplan/structures etc This is what I would do this week to try and address some of these issues; 1 An extra key forward into the side - whether that is Weid or Brown or even Jackson we need another big body down there to at least compete if not take the mark. I would go with Weid bur we have the option of playing both Weid and Brown, moving TMac to defense and dropping Smith 2 following on from 1, Joel Smith should be dropped. Simply not good enough especially in a key defensive post. Maybe as a 3rd tall but we already have Lever in that role. Smith should be injury insurance for Lever and nothing more. We can either move TMac into defense if we bring in 2 key forwards or drop Smith for OMac if we bring in only 1 key forward. 3 Bring in Bennell. I don't care if he's underdone or if he needs to work on his defensive efforts. Other small forwards get games with continual poor defensive efforts without offering anywhere near the upside Bennell brings. Whether he comes in for Hunt, VDB or Melksham, take your pick. I'd bring him in for Hunt at this stage, he did nothing the last 2 games 4 bring in Jones - for all his faults Jones does have some composure and is a relatively decent kick. He can come in for one of VDB or Melksham. Melksham has been rubbish so far but he offers more upside than VDB as he has the capacity to kick 3 or 4 goals. Therefore I'd being in Jones for VDB 5 start Harmes in the middle. He was unsighted on Sunday until moving into the middle in the last where he was one of the reasons we got going. Viney can make way for him at the moment. Petracca is currently our best player and Oliver for all his faults can actually win the ball. Oliver is on thin ice too but he is preferred over Viney at this stage who has hit a wall 6 bring Jetta in - Harmes to the middle makes way for Jetta in defence. Similar to Jones he offers composure and a relatively decent kick coming out of defense. He doesn't have a laser kick by any means but he often makes the sensible choice which is why he has such a high DE% 7 - Brayshaw more time in the middle - i haven't noticed Brayshaw much this year which could be a good or bad thing depending on your perspective. I think he deserves an opportunity to at least show what he has, I think he's the type of player who thrives on the responsibility Another consideration is ANB in for Lockhart. I'm not wedded to this one though but if we are going to play Lockhart it needs to be forward of centre. I guess that means my squad would look like this FB Jetta May Lever CHB Salem TMac/OMac Hibberd C Tomlinson Petracca Langdon CHF Jones Brown/TMac Hannan FF Pickett Weideman Fritsch Foll Gawn Harmes Oliver I/C Melksham Bennell Brayshaw Rivers In: Jetta Jones Weideman Bennell OMac/Brown Out: Viney Smith Lockhart Vandenberg Hunt

It's our decision making as much as our skills. Check out the vision they showed on the couch - we just continually burn teammates in better positions because we have the blinkers on, "full steam ahead" - they need to get into a flow and be aware of the situations around them, at the moment it's all manic manic manic which leaves us exposed when it inevitably breaks down. Funnily enough since dwelling on this since yesterday's game I've come to think we aren't that far away. We just need to be a bit smarter with our ball use, a bit more patient as Max said, shake up the lineup so we have another key forward, some better ball users, some more experienced heads out there and we can start rolling again. The problem is it feels like it's that final few percent that are the hardest to achieve and whether we are actually capable of getting there is another issue. It feels like Sisyphus, we've rolled the boulder almost to the top of the hill - but we all know how that story ends....

Gutted? I am furious

How the [censored] is Weideman supposed to develop when we don't even have a dedicated coach to teach him forward craft. Who is he meant to be learning from, TMac? Amateur hour! If you want a return you can't cheap out on the investment. It feels like there is so much wrong at the moment, it is totally disheartening. Every thread I read on here I think of another 5 things that aren't being addressed or have been done wrong. You could write a thesis on this club.

I live on the other side of the Yarra so have never been to the Bentleigh club but if this is true it is a disgrace.

Sorry but that is a copout. The core of the group is the same, particularly the young midfield core who was expected to take this team to the top. Losing that experience might account for a drop from top 4 to top 8, but not to bottom of the ladder. As Dermie and King pointed out last night on first crack (worth a watch as they discussed us for a good 10-15 minutes) the coach/club have the list they want. They built this list and have the players they wanted and the areas of the ground they invested in. We also have basically no injuries to players who are in contention for senior selection.

That's a copout though, this isn't some ragtag group of bush footballers. This team made a prelim less than 2 years ago. With extra development into these players, many who are or have been highly rated, we should be making finals at the very least. We were 17th last year and currently 17th this year and on current form across the comp there is not many teams we would beat.

Jeez this is depressing I'm 38 and the thought of being 50 and still never having seen a flag....I don't even know how to verbalise that emotion

King has 10 cm on him plus reach and is quick off the mark. He also has a highly skilled Suns midfield delivering him the ball. May's form has been ok but he is outmatched when it comes to King.

In addition to this - if the players don't possess the skills to execute your gameplan, then you need to alter the gameplan to give the players at your disposal the best chance of success.

Mate Gold coast and Hawks will cream us. Watch Ben King towel up Steven May just to rub our faces in it

I'm assuming around a mil. He'd be on ~$500k a year wouldn't he?