praha

10 goal loss. Easily.

Richard Di Natale (news Greens leader) is a Richmond [censored].

Trengove is done. It's going to be very hard for him. I imagine he'll start training again in the pre-season but if it flares up again, he'll retire. I assume he'll take on a role at the club though.

I think we need taller, stronger midfielders. Prestia is great but where does he fit in among Viney, Brayshaw, Jones, Petracca? We'd be far too heavy in the middle, which evidently is our problem now because teams like Freo stitch us up. We need more elite running mids. I'm not sure Prestia would be a good fit for us anymore. Two years ago, sure, but not anymore. We need more of an x-factor in the middle, not Nathan Jones 2.0.

Disagree. The system screwed us, sure, and Adelaide got the better run. But we'd still would have needed to play North in the GF and we just didn't match up well against them. 2002 was a bigger miss. Pundits before the finals series were saying that we were the best Victorian chance to beat Brisbane, and we were. We smashed North in the first week, and should have destroyed the Crows. We were down by 40 at quarter time and came back in two of the best quarters I've ever seen this club play. In the 4th it was a tussle and we lost. THAT was the one that got away. I reckon we'd have beaten the Pies in the Prelim and had a real crack at the Lions.

I'd take Bennell. Garlett has been good this year (albeit not as damaging as we need him to be) and he seems to have turned his career around after a regressive year at Caaaaaarlton. Roos can turn him around. Watts or Howe and our first rounder for Bennell and their second rounder. or Watts + Toumpas for Bennell + first round pick

At the end of the day, we're still harping on about what happens behind the field while we get pummelled by 11 goals. Meanwhile the Dogs have quietly developed their team into an impressive young side of talent despite having lost so much experience. We still haven't quite turned the corner. It's slow steps, sure, but we haven't had our "Beat Sydney in Sydney" moment yet. Last year's win in Adelaide was great but we were still a pretty average side last year. I've heard the "we're on the right track" rhetoric before, I hate to sound so negative and bitter, but I'm just keeping my expectations in check. Viney says when he came to the club that it was "fractured". I'm skeptical of revolutionary change in business (quick, erratic turnover) because it actually leads to more instability and downtime. The entire backend has changed, and the team has essentially changed in a matter of, what, two years? Since middle of 2013, but really the start of 2014. We are still a long, long way off being a great football club, and even further away being simply just a good football team. Fans have every right to be [censored] off about Toumpas over Wines because the club is not in a position now where it can fluff its drafting and development. It HAS to get it right. We don't get a second chance like we did after 2010. If we mess it up again, it's another decade at the bottom and this club can't survive that. Sunday's game showed to me (some here might disagree) that this is still in a way a fractured ball club: I'm not sure the team went out there to win. They went out there to lose, and lose admirably before it broke down. How do you even change that? Who do you hold to account? We bag Neeld on here but remember, he came in with the same criticisms of the club that everyone else has had since. Roos says it and he's a messiah, but when Neeld said it we wondered if he was being too harsh on the club. Yeah, Stynes came in and wiped the debt but it was a bandaid solution. Jim, rest his soul, also oversaw one of the worst periods in the club's history. He should and his colleagues at the time should be held to account for that (and in many cases they were). I'm still shocked at how bad this club has been for so long. A Anyone would think the MFC was a subsidiary of Kruger Industrial Smoothing.

It's a double-edged sword for Carlton. Great exposure but the problem with said exposure is that if the product you're selling is [censored] you're doing more damage to your brand than you imagine. Do you think Carlton would be under the microscope as much had they not been front and center during prime time? They still would be, sure, but now everyone can see how [censored] they are. No one wants to watch [censored] teams. Awful scheduling by the AFL. The only teams IMO that deserve Friday night are Port, Freo, Hawthorn, Sydney, and now even the Bulldogs.

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Viney will play at least 1 week in the VFL I'd have thought. His injury means no running at all so you'd think he'd need a run in the twos before coming back into the squad.

I wonder if it bumped up on Sunday. Our first home game since round 1. TBH I can't see us bettering last year's total, which would be pretty terrible. I predict 34,900.

The team that has the ball more always tends to get more free kicks. A lot of the calls yesterday for both teams were very soft, but a lot of the obvious ones weren't called for both sides. We got a ride yesterday. Everyone around me was carrying on about obvious frees that weren't called, but we got some absolute pearlers, Hogan's in front of goal included. At the end of the day, if you're second to the ball all day, you're going to get calls against you. Melbourne seems to get the tough end of the stick because it's rarely the first with the ball. Richmond last week had more of the ball for three quarters and got some shocking calls in their favour. But we worked hard, controlled the game and won comfortably. In the last we were first to the ball and got some silly but certainly "there" free kicks.

Added "Win a final outside of Victoria". Really? I don't think it matters. We've had a few 5-goal bags.

That is depressing reading.

I don't buy the "they are the best team in the comp" argument. They have flogged us by 10 goals every game since 2012, which was before they were the league's best team, and in 2013 they were good, but hardly the "best". We continue to get pounded by them in the same area - the middle - and yesterday was as much a flogging in that area as I've seen. Vince, Jones and Tyson didn't give a puff the whole game. Even if we had have taken our chances, they were still a 10-goal better side, easily. They'd have found a way to still get ahead. As I mentioned earlier, the biggest disappointment was that the game seemed like an exercise in minimisation right from the opening bounce. We were NEVER in it. They were a 10-goal better side from the opening bounce, and dare I say that by the end of it they were more than an 11-goal better side. It felt more like a 20-goal loss. We never went out there to win it. It was always a case of, "how do we keep the margin as low as possible", and then when all else failed, everyone lost the plot, as Roos said. That was a different sort of loss compared to similar beltings in previous years. We didn't have the cattle or experience in 2012, 2013 and parts of 2014. Yesterday, they simply had zero urgency to win. It was astonishing how much uncontested ball they won. This team simply has no plan B if they aren't able to slow the ball down. I hate to harp on about Jones as I have in many other threads on here but once again he shows he also has no plan B. He was given a football lesson by players with less experience. I don't expect him to do everything but twice this season he has gone missing as soon as the pressure is on. It's been very disappointing by his standards. Once upon a time he'd simply "go through the motions", but yesterday and against GWS he never took that extra step to at least be commendable in defeat. We had no standouts yesterday. Garlett kicked three goals, but when? The delivery was shocking, granted, but they all felt like junk-time goals, even if they were so early in the contest. He's not damaging enough. As soon as we got a run, he missed two sitters. But he kicked them when we were 25-30 points down. We also didn't get a single goal, coast-to-coast off the rebound. Granted Freo are a very well-drilled, disciplined side defensively but our key players lacked concentration. Jones missed a handball target from 5 meters away on our defensive 50 when we had Tyson alone on the wing, Vince in the middle and Hogan alone across half-forward. That's a lack of effort and concentration. Twice now we have regressed back to the same sort of "we're not going to win so let's just wing it" mentality that we saw in round 2 against the Eagles last year. Freo gave us a football lesson. When it was 10 points they were dominating, and eventually the final margin normalised and reflected the actual story of the game.

Yep. By the looks of it, he's been "Melbourne'd": came into the club with plenty of promise, started off well, peaked, and then dropped back down to the level we should have expected!

I thought what was most disappointing was that right from the start it always seemed like an exercise in minimisation: keeping the losing margin as low as possible. I never felt as though the team was confident it *could* win. Once the last started though, as Roos said the team effort went out the window and players just lost the plot. Ignore open teammates, tried taking on 30 players, snapping ridiculous shots on goal. They went back into, "We're losing so stuff it!" mode. Before that though it was, "Let's see how long we can keep up with them" mode. It was a clinic from the opening bounce.

Inanimate carbon rod.

Added "Beat Fremantle" & "Beat a Ross Lyon-coached team"

Brayshaw - Competitive and consistent Cross - Beaten but committed Dunn - 2014 a memory Garland - Constantly out marked Garlett - Not quite damaging Grimes - Locked down Ballantyne Hogan - Didn't get delivery Howe - Going through motions Jamar - Old and tired Jones - Outran all day Kennedy-Harris - Constantly found out Lumumba - Really just "there" Pedersen - Better than Dawes McDonald - Contained their best McKenzie - Dear God why!? Michie - Run outta MCG Newton - Did he play? Salem - Standard loose game Tyson - Can't break tag vandenBerg - Tried all alone Vince - Out of depth Watts - Will never arrive

We were horrid all day. Freo played in second gear all day, had all the run, all the pace, all the positioning, but were very average going forward for 3 quarters. I thought they were a 20 goal-better side today. If we didn't have Garlett, who would have kicked our goals? We didn't kick a single goal off a rebound. We are lucky it was only 68 points. Saying it was commendable for 3 quarters is comical.

Him being the sub imo suggests Roos is confident we'll put up a fight. Bring him in around the 3rd or start of the 4th to put the final clamp down in the midfield and let us hold out. Bizarre and surprising, sure, but intriguing.

If he wants to go they'll need to seek a trade. Who would you want?

Freo will need to trade for him if they want him. We'll take Fyfe.

Sack Roos.