praha

Gus squibbed a few times early as well...but he changed that really quickly and went from one extreme to the other. I think Andrew is a smart footballer, but unlike Gus he is taking longer to, erm, squib the squibs. Unless he does, he's just a Cale Morton 2.0

We are better defensively with a fit Lever and May, better by maybe 3-4 goals. Losing Hogan makes us 2 goals on average worse. However if we can keep the differential high enough, the total score is irrelevant.

Norf is trying very hard not to bottom out but imo they would be best served to. Build up and trade for draft picks, and manage that cap space accordingly. Throwing money at every single free agent is getting embarrassing for them. Imagine having your $200k p.a. better offer rejected.

I said on this forum once that he'll either be a solid forward-flanker that routinely kicks 40-50 goals a year, or he'll end up as Clive Waterhouse 2.0. The way people attacked me you'd think I'd killed their dog. Hogan both epitomizes and is the antithesis of Waterhouse's career so far.

The club probably would have had to let one of Brayshaw, Oliver, Harmes, Petracca, Mcdonald, and Hogan go at some point. Close to 0% chance we keep all together for the duration of their careers. Hogan leaving probably provides some flexibility, doubt they want to see him go but if they have an opportunity to get high value, of course they will do it.

He set the bar pretty high, no? You can either go the Adelaide or even the Carlton or WC route and pretend to be hard arses but end of the day the player will get to their destination. Our trade with Crows for Lever will stand as an important moment whenever we go to the trade table because that set the precedent.

Of course but i think it is bigger now than him being contracted, or a "player". if you're not motivated by the environment or your motivation lies elsewhere, it always falls down on management and stakeholders to find a way to motivate and instill belief. imposing rules or contractual obligations never works because no organisation in their right mind keeps someone around who doesn't want to be there. it's not just in football. the contractual element in sport is less about putting an explicit time window on the minimum obligation a player has: it is a safeguard for teams that, should the contract need to be altered, they have bargaining power. it's extremely rare that a contracted player that wishes to leave the team their contracted to doesn't have their wish fulfulled. I cringe when I hear teams say "they are a contracted player". The contract serves to protect the player's earning capacity first and foremost. If Hogan wishes to move, first intent is to ensure he is fully aware of how important he is. Beyond that, I believe the team has an obligation to him, fans and the team environment to get the best possible outcome in a trade.

My thoughts after some reflection: He was adament to stay and be part of something great. Getting injured and missing finals has changed his perspective. A young kid has seen his colleagues succeed without him. It can be demoralizing and can impact your own self worth. It happens to all of us. I am not the least bit surprised by this if it's all true. This stands as an important test for this regime. Scully felt he didn't belong. Then money weighed in. I don't think money is as big an allure for Hogan: he is getting the coin whether he stays or goes. The test for the club is to highlight to Hogan how important he is. To sit on the sidelines after being through so much, and to miss the excitement of finals...that must have really affected him. We need some perspective here. It is not about playing hardball. Or rejecting his request. It is about ensuring Hogan is mentally able to understand how important he is. We know he is a strong kid after what he has been through. But I feel his missing finals was kind of the cherry on top of a horrid 24 months. That he still kicked 80+ goals in that period is truly amazing. Club and fans need to get around him and let him know how important he is. Tell him on instagram. Don't be all "woe is me, please don't leave Hoges!" Give him support and tell him he's a star. These kids are so aggressively scrutinise in the social media era. We need to turn it around and make him one of us. We can't lose this kid.

A sign and trade with Gaff for Hogan.

could be drummed up to prompted a larger contract extension from Melbourne. I suspect we will hear otherwise in fhe next 24-48 hours. Either it was be confirmed or he will flat out deny it. I'm guessing the former.

Good. He has unfinished business.

I don't think the club is seeking a trade. But if he is open to a move and the club would benefit of course they're doing it.

Freo doesn't have the chips here.

One need not have logic in Demonland trade proposals, James.

That's not what was proposed. Read it again. If Hogan is worth two first round picks, it goes without saying that a top 2 pick + a player taken at top 2 LAST YEAR is effectively the same.

Lose Hogan, gain pick. Pick to WC + JKH + Tyson for Gaff in sign and Trade. Win win lol AND we pipe Norf. Would be Buddy-esque in its snubbery.

If we're going to lose him, best it be now. We stand to benefit greatly. May + Brayshaw would be an amazing get.

To let them know you're actually going to use the ticket.

Then how have we persuaded a ruck that has been complaining about no game time to join us? He's gotta be worked in.

Streuss would likely player the other tall anyway, leaving Gawn to drop back into defense.

Rubbish. Lewis was immense in our two wins. He had a bad day today but so did Gawn and Jones. And many others.

Best thread on Demonland. I was born in 86 and have mostly experienced misery with a handful of good but not great years. This current team is undoubtedly the best we've had in my time, maybe the 94 list as all of our best players were in their prime but we could never get them on the park at the same time. Keep the stories coming!

we were crap for a decade, doctor, because we bet the house on the draft and got rid of a core group that held the team together for a decade. we picked up Fritsch and Spargo deep in the draft last year, and both are starting 22 in arguably the best team the club has fielded in over 5 decades. Throw in VB and Hannan as well as smart "mature" aged picks and there is clear proof that high drafts are not the be all and end all. The logic behind trading a key position player in his early 20s and yet to hit his prime just to improve our draft position is utter lunacy. It's on par with the idiocy I see on some of the Facebook supporter groups of people screaming for Petracca and ANB to be dropped (and posted DURING the game mind you). I apologise if that seems like a direct attack on you and others here but it's genuinely how I feel at the moment. Midway through the season I probably thought differently but now that we have turned the corner, we should keep our hand close to our chest rather than throwing it all away in the hope we get a better hand at the draft. Hogan has had his Clive Waterhouse-esque moments this year, but he's a smart player with a huge tank that can find the ball. He would have gone top 3 in any of the past 10 drafts, including this year. That's not an argument to trade him. It's an argument to keep him. Unless a Hogan trade immediately improves us, it's a firm "Yeah nah" from me. And by "improve us immediately" I mean a young, proven winner. A like for like swap is the only possible fair trade, and that's never going to happen.

Observations: Geelong supporters a disgrace. 91k. Maybe 15k Cats fans. Harmes is a star. Weeds is a big game player. Dangerfield and Ablett are two of the softest players ever. Ablett just doesn't care and wants the soft ball or free kick. Umps gave us a ride but we got the free kicks the Cats have been getting for a decade.

Trade him.