Nasher

I agree, but he does needs to add an element of awareness of his surroundings though. Should get a rocket up his **** next time he costs the team a goal because he has a shot and misses when a player is free in the square. Will be a better player once he learns when it is appropriate to take a risk and have a ping, and when to pass it off.

So what's the reason then if it's not lack of pre-season? I didn't see too many people raising these complaints about Garland last year when finished second in the B&F. Something has changed between then and now, so since you're an expert, I'd love to to hear your view. Speak slowly though so I can keep up.

Does the game plan patently reject trying to kick a winning score, or is it just our players doing that?

Why is Pedersen suddenly in all the outs? Doesn't belong near Casey on form, and would be the first player of all time to miss a game with a broken nose if that's what people are worried about?

Because in the black and white land of a football supporter's forum, there are only winners and losers. We're not allowed to enjoy progress or minor victories along the way.

I remember about a decade ago now, Craig Cameron spent some time on 'land rubbing shoulders with the fans, and one of the things he discussed was how 'success' was measured in the recruiting field. One of the things back then was number of games played - which produced funny results like calling Aaron Fiora a success. By this measure, Grimes 85 games makes him a clearly successful pick. Again, that's not to say that he hasn't been disapointing in my ways, but if people want to argue that Grimes has not been a sucessful draft pick, I'm very interested to hear what clear, measurable, repeatable metric they are using to measure it.

I didn't think Riley's game was a complete bust. I know there was that one shocker to Viney but on balance I thought he was okay. He also had 5 tackles and 7 and 7 the two weeks prior. I can't see Roos being in a hurry to give those sorts of numbers up.

Under what criteria would you call Trengove or Grimes failures? No doubt they've been disappointing but they do not belong in the same bucket as Morton, Strauss, Tapscott, Blease, Gysberts, Cook et al. They can, have and do play AFL standard football.

If I were a gambling man I'd put a healthy wager on Bail not being dropped. Will be a 22 game club member this year.

Yup, here it is: the epitome of threads that don't matter. I'm genuinely terrified about this game. Out: Tapscott In: Cross I know it's hardly ringing in the changes, but as tempting as it is to drag in class ball users like Nicholson and Matt Jones from Casey... Gosh I'm ready for this season to finish now.

Bail has played every game so far. I don't think Roos shares the popular view on this particular player.

I thought Brisbane were just as bad, if not worse with the footy than we were. I doubt that if I'd been barracking for the other team, I'd feel any better about the result than I do now. Was not difficult to see why those two teams are where they are.

That was very hard to watch. Watching us get overrun by bog ordinary teams is not getting any easier to stomach. Very ready for this season to end now.

I'm not convinced that signing for another club and being committed to your existing club for the remainder of your contract are mutually exclusive things. In the workplace, for every person I've seen put their feet up on the desk for the last few weeks, I've seen just as many gun it right until the end. You'd have to treat each case individually I would think.

Look I'm not going to carry on about it, but it's not about whether he reads it, it's about paying respect where it is due (and I acknowledge you did in your post - but the right doesn't correct the wrong). I don't think being on a discussion forum changes when a comment is appropriate or when it isn't - there has been and will be plenty of opportunities to put forth views on how he went at the MFC, I think the timing is wrong. Just my view. I'd prefer this wasn't turned in to a fight, please.

I think it's really poor form to give the bloke a backhander when he's calling it quits.

The round 23 timeslots don't get released until now, so this is news as we knew we would play North, but didn't know the time or day until now. Is that what you mean?

First post, so I won't just delete the thread as I would normally. Please use the existing Frawley thread: http://demonland.com/forums/index.php?/topic/36611-frawley-stay-or-go/

True. I hadn't considered match payments.

You strike me as the kind of person who would claim that we wouldn't win a game for the whole season after a poor loss in round 3.

I was thinking over a shorter period of time - like half a season max. I suppose to could be extended to an entire season if necessary, but I highly doubt Frawley signed that far out. A player signing with another club with two years or three years to run on their existing club is unrealistic.

In my line of work, if I took upon a job at a competitor, I'd hand in my four weeks notice, and would be sent on "gardening leave" for the duration of my four weeks on full pay, with my building access would be revoked. In other more "standard" jobs in the past, I'd give my four weeks notice, and spend that four weeks handing over and making sure those taking on my responsibilities were fully up to speed. In neither case would I have any reason (practically or morally) to lie to my employer. Frawley's position is comparable to my own - sure, he'd have to go on "gardening leave" too (i.e. no longer available for selection), but it would be on full pay and won't affect his contract at his new club. It's a small price to pay for doing the right thing by your club (employer). I agree with Redleg that it would be very low if he's signed already and is fibbing about it. I'm doubtful that it's the case anyway.

And Cross.

Exactly. Ladder position is much a function of other clubs form as it is our own. I'll be focusing on our own form, not whether or not St Kilda can pluck a win or two from nowhere to pass us on the ladder.

Depends on how we round out the season, really. If the other teams happen to pluck a few more wins out of their rear ends and top us, then that's just bad luck. If it coincides with us playing limp footy, that would be upsetting. Still think there is no chance of us finishing last though.