Nasher

Nah not really. As has been my position in this thread all along, I only take exception when the criticism becomes unfair and unreasonable. On the bits that are fair and reasonable (if not debatable) I have no comment.

Please do not put in quote marks words that are not direct quotes.

If you think it matters that Watts was caught grinning for a second after the game, you're a dead set goose. It does not mean he is unprofessional. It does not mean he is not disappointed, or happy with the result. Just because you want to kick the cat when we lose does not mean everyone must. It was an instant caught on camera. I'd bet money a player on every losing side, every week, has a laugh with the opposition at the end.

This is the most hilariously split personality thread I've ever seen. All we need is a contribution from hogans_heroes and it will be complete.

I've had a foot in both the optimistic and the pessimistic camps this week. All I will say about this post is that I probably wouldn't have called supporters of this club "pi55 weak" for being apprehensive about this one.

We may not be able to play worse, but if we play even closely to that badly the result will be a lot worse.

My nonchalant optimism of earlier in the week has waned and been replaced by absolute dread. Please dear lord, be kind to us today.

Surely we can do better than any sort of McKenzie. I think Robinson is a spud as well as a flog. I'm not the nuke my membership type, but I would be greatly surprised if we were even remotely interested.

I don't agree. This is not the share market where you hold stock with the underlying principle that you'll sell it eventually, so the "sell at best price" concept doesn't make sense. Clubs should be looking at how it can get best use for its players; that may be through a trade, but most of the time it's through further development of that player, that's why relatively few players are traded each year. The club clearly took the view that it would benefit more from retaining him than it would have from the trade. If clubs adopt the mantra of looking at trade value vs future trade value only as you suggest, then they ignore what the player is worth to the club if they keep him. They probably got it wrong in this specific case as Fitzpatrick hasn't really come on, but that doesn't make the principle wrong.

I doubt footy clubs think like this. "He had a pretty good year this year, let's trade him in case he bombs next year and isn't worth anything". You'd have to assume your players are going to progress, surely.

Agree - no way. You wouldn't delist a player like Gawn until you were absolutely dead certain he was no good; not reaching true AFL standard until he is 27 is a real possibility for a guy built like him and with his history. Peter Street spent 9 seasons in the AFL system for crying out loud. There aren't many players I'd offer almost unlimited patience to but Gawn is one of them.

Well done, you've established for the third time that it's not the lack of pre-season. I heard you the first time and wanted you tell me what you thought it was if it wasn't a lack of pre-season, you reply by telling me yet again that it wasn't a lack of a pre-season. Swell. I'm not trying to argue with you, debate you or disagree with you. I'm trying to encourage you to flesh your thoughts out further in to a point where you can convince me. I did genuinely want to know where you were going with this, but it's clearly futile. I'll just assume my question will go unanswered, you need not reply any further.

I was trying really hard not to put it like that, but that's pretty much what I thought too.

I feel like it's February again. Funny how these reports can snap me out of my footy season blues. I reckon I'm the true blue sky junkie. Thanks Saty.

I'm with you stmj. I'm aware it defies all logic and form, but I reckon we'll be fired up and they'll be flat. I think psychologically it would be very hard for them to get up for this game given the absolute gulf in class. Might just be wishful thinking. I guess we'll see. We'll lose by 20 or so and C&B will say it should've been 80.

Hawthorn by 18. Points. No, I will not pass the crackpipe.

It may not be the lack of pre-season, but since you've rejected it as an explanation for his loss of form, I was hoping you would offer up another one.

That conclusion is... interesting.I'm one of the geniuses that think the only scores that matter are the ones that actually happened. I've seen as many games where I thought the score line looked harsh in comparison to how we played, and games where we played poorly but for some reason, weren't punished. The history books will show that Sydney beat us by 31, not the 60 you've recorded on your head, and if they were unable to punish us when they're clearly a class above, surely some of the credit has to go to our side anyway. Certainly I thought that at the time.

Yay, my favourite game! The one where we start taking the actual scores, then start scaling them based on whatever we think the scores *should* have been, then start talking about those fictional scores as if they are the ones that matter. While you're there C&B, can you please turn the Adelaide and Essendon games in to losses - I don't think we had a right to win those. Make Collingwood a 70 point loss, Freo 100, but make GWS, St Kilda, Port and WB x 2 narrow victories - ta.

In a professional sport, doesn't it make sense that people responsible for the management of high performance teams want metrics to measure their teams on? This isn't 'Americanisation' of the sport - whatever the hell that means - it's just bog standard performance reporting in a professional environment. I agree that it's complicated and sometimes far too hard for the layman to make head or tail of all the information, but that's surely all part of the fun? If not, there's always the option of just tuning out. I certainly don't agree that the data is all worthless just because I don't always understand it, which the OP seems to be suggesting.

Geelong's % is only as low as it is because of that one belting they took against Sydney. If you exclude that result their % is around 120% - still not around the 140% of the top teams, but much better. Just goes to show what a difference one game can make it if it's on the extreme end of the scale.

Is this a real post McQueen? Better disguised alright - couldn't see it through Pedersen's nose which was smeared all over his face. It should not be a contest in who did a better job of pretending not to punch the other bloke in the face. It should be black and white.

I wonder if anyone was more frustrated, disappointed or embarrassed than Jordie?

Ben Holland frayed my nerves in front of goal more than any other player in my lifetime.

Watching your teammates kick points isn't a big improvement. Should've passed it, no ifs or buts I reckon.