rpfc

Any hope that targets will be made available next week?

When Lever said - 'I will go into the draft' - we gained leverage. When we found out about how the Crows acted when meeting with Mahoney and Viney we gained leverage, with him being disinvited from the B+F we gained leverage (perception in press only - makes it harder for them to stonewall), and when he polled outside the top 10 we gained leverage. ND10 and ND45 or a pick swap in the second round. We acted in good faith with offering a fair trade and their petulance should not be rewarded.

I don't like that trade - we can discuss it in the Lever thread but we have leverage (no pun intended) and ND10 and change (ND45 or a middle finger machine will do).

He wants to play up the ground and now he definitely can - in fact he will need to. I hope they give him a consistent role and allow him to settle into some running and leading patterns and get the team used to it to. Because if this bloke is leading into space on centre wing then you really don't need that extra handball to a completely free bloke on the halfback flank - you need to kick the ball onto his advantage side and get numbers to his feet and running past him.

I was wrong with Hunt - but I barely saw the kid. I hope my gut instinct is wrong here.

I agree (cautiously). He is tracking very well for his age. If he continues to improve at the rate he is - he will be a very good role player. Especially if he can be a gorilla tamer. Lever to help from a third tall position. Frost to provide run (if he can beat his bloke as his first job) so Oscar is just directing traffic and not much more. PS. He is going to find life a lot tougher with Watts going, he will immediately be the ire of fans of the resident whipping boy. Come next week, the eye of sauron will be fixed on Oscar.

The irony of the plethora of comparisons to Pendlebury? I can't think of one player drafted since, that actually effing plays like him...

I don't rate Howe. The perceived pedestal I have put Roos on is earned in my opinion. One of the greatest coaches of modern times. I feel like I have criticised his final year as I heard first hand he was distant and not involved and I shared as much here. With Goodwin I have seen a couple of things this year that frustrate me, but even then I would preface it with two things; he has an exciting brand of footy, and he managed great buy in from those talented enough to execute his plan. Getting back to Howe - there was a period where I didn't post much and that was effectively during and after that trade, but nevertheless, it was a trade that I was not that interested in because I didn't rate him as a HFF or a HBF. Howe also didn't play, in 2016, to the level he has this year and that was my reference to Hibberd - if we are to judge that trade now - where we would put him in our current team would have to shape that argument. And I also realise that the coming Watts trade will not be judged for years - so we are in agreement there too.

I won't want the FD sacked - what posting history would make you think that? But to argue that 'how Watts goes at his new to club is irrelevant' is a fairly weak argument. If we can criticise the Howe trade, we can criticise this.

Was that even the trade? Happy to castigate but it isn't black and white these judgements. Where would Howe have played with Hibberd at the club etc. I really don't think my point is controversial.

Especially when Roos did get something out of him for an entire season. Of course this trade will be judged on how he performs and how the asset we get performs. To think otherwise is naive.

There are so many stories of Dees fans talking to him in passing and being so impressed, and he always had time for fans, or to plug the Dees, and he obviously stuck through a lot of nonsense at the club and put up with a great deal of heat, both earned and unearned. Footy clubs are really built around personalities like Jack.

I have got into trouble believing Demons... I hope I don't come across to anyone as suggesting they are lying - I just sense the massaging of a narrative in an attempt to force Jack's hand and get him to decide to move. Not stay and fight for his place, but take his seeming lack of professionalism AND his contract AND his underling value (2nd round pick?) and go. If my coach and FD wanted an outcome like this, I would do the same. Mahoney is just trying to get the best outcome for the MFC.

Call me a depressing cynic but I think this will be a lose-lose-lose. I don't think we will get a valuable return that will be able to flip into much useful, unless it gets shoehorned into the Lever deal. I don't think that Watts is served by leaving the club and will be a shorter leash than even Goodwin and co. had him on (I just doubt he could ever go through a season without a bad patch of footy). And that he will not survive the sea change. And that leads to the club who gets him not getting the most out of a bloke took a SuperCoach to get the best out of. I know this reads as an indictment on Jack and to some extent it is, but he loses his support base and those that back him when there are not many that do. That's the fan base, the players, and the FD. I hope I am wrong on the first two counts but that is my early judgment. ?

Really? Jack had some rippers the last couple years... You don't help your argument when you ignore facts that don't back up your argument...

He was dropped twice too... 2018 might be his last year. Pedders played two good games after Round 14 and the rest were poor to meh. He doesn't get the attention when he is sh!te though...

Wasn't your mail about a mid from another vic club?

I think that is dramatic licence from a FD boss desperate to create an asset out of a contracted player. I happen to know that Gawn is not the kind of professional influence you want around the 'impressionable youth' that we have. Footy clubs are full of various personalities, even Jack Viney this season spoke about how his leadership has altered to be more accomodating to personalities different to his focussed, intense, and strict footballing attitude. So, no, I don't think it would be a reckless decision to keep Watts.

I have been to plenty of games where all some MFC supporters see is the tall blonde bloke not get the footy. Even when it is not his role to get the footy: 'get in there Jack FCS! Jump into that mass of small ball winning mids and win the footy... 'Where were you then, Jack?' About two metres away from the contest that Gawn and Pedersen just went up and got in each other's way and let Josh Gibson take a chest mark. Occasionally, when the footy was on the Northern Side I would hear Dees fans with depth perception issues blame Jack for not getting the footy 40m away from the contest. All this isn't to say he isn't very averse to contact but it has always been amazing to see Dees fans go to the footy and only see one player and everything he does, doesn't do or is nowhere near.

That will happen to Vince next year. I understand your point but, as a coach who has dropped blokes because of weather, match ups, and to work on specific things - I really hated it when getting dropped was seen akin to a death sentence.

That kind of language doesn't help. Some of us are not 'emotional' and blinded by the 'golden boy' - we simply think our club is better off with Watts at the club. And some attempt to provide some reasoning for that view. It may be denial to you, but an argument to them.

His reaction when he turned back and shrugged his shoulders is the most British reaction I have ever seen for a dismissal.

Hang on, mate. No need for that. Whatever the motives are and reasons for them doing this, they are doing in the best interests of your footy club you love so much. Jack will always be a great Demon no matter what happens this off season and if this is it - well, that is footy. We all have our opinions but let's back the club. Can't hold them accountable outside the tent. Stay on board.

I think it is safe to say the club would like him to go. Watts is obviously being encouraged to find a suitable home and that club will give us a deal we can swallow.

Forgot about that. That club is creating fallout for itself. It's comforting.