Red and Blue realist

Been canned from 3 clubs now, apparently work rate is a big issue. Has some talent, but rarely shows it consistently. If as you suggest Hogan and Watts go down, he'd play 1 or 2 good games then go missing for the next 5 or 6. Big no from me, if he was 21 you think that Macca could iron him out but he's had his chances.

I guess it's only because he's insurance, not seen as a permanent best 22 player. Ruck is probably the only spot where this happens, and as we've seen with the Doggies and with us using Watts there, it's not necessary to have 2 full time big men in the side. It's rare than any team has multiple 'good' ruckman, and when this happens inevitably they look for better opportunities. The FD have probably kept Pencil on because it's easier than developing someone who might leave and cheaper than getting someone in who may play the whole season in the 2nds. The next draft is supposedly stacked with talls (KPP and Ruck), so we might look at giving a rookie contract to a mature ager, see how King comes back after the knee, then look at filing that role with a younger guy to develop in that FWD/Ruck role.

I re-watched the round 20 game against the Hawks yesterday (Fox have games highlighting brownlow performances so must have been for big Maxy) and it changed my perception of both Bugg and Harmes. Bugg fills a simple but important role within the team, he'll never be a star but if he was in the bottom 6 on game day then you'd back him in to do whatever job is assigned to him and do it with aggression. With Harmes, it was his first half that got my attention, I thought his run (both ways) plus his williness to complete were great. The only issue he had was he seemed to tire in the second half and his disposal then becomes questionable, given he's played less than 30 games I think he could really come on with some more miles in the legs over pre-season. Not saying either are round 1 best 22, but think both are or could be very much in the mix.

When he was drafted by the giants the consensuses was it was a year too early and he should have played an overage year in TAC. He's now got a couple years under his belt in an AFL system so hopefully turns out to be a decent player. I suspect we might not see him in the 1s next year but could come on after that.

Plus Pedo and White (if he stays on the list), if we do need back up it'll depend on who were playing. I'd hope we might get another taller back in the draft or as a rookie, and I wouldn't mind a state leaguer unless a really good draftee slips.

Can imagine we'll be after role players, rather than 'best available'. At a guess we might see some younger state (VFL, WAFL etc.) players rather than first time draftees.

The Tigs have Prestia and Caddy for esentially pick 6 and next year second rounder, they've actually done OK there. Not a huge win but don't think I'd see that as a loss for them either.

Have heard that next years draft is significantly better for KPP and in particular rucks, I'm not a big follower of the draft but is that true from those who do watch? In the case would we be looking at just getting a mature state-based ruck as insurance then looking at a draft prospect in 2017?

They have got a second, both this year and 2 seconds next year (at this stage). Could come back to haunt them quickly, if they don't win it in the next year or 2 they've got next to no young depth coming through.

I agree, it's just sometimes hard to pass up a guy who can get 40 touches if we could get him very cheaply. If we didn't get Lewis then I'd hope we would have been all over him.

Picks 57, 59, 84 and 102. I'd say we're looking at only taking 1 or 2 kids then upgrading rookies with the others.

Seems strange isn't it? Looks like a job on the run. Maybe they've gone to the AFL and said "don't worry Motlop's out as a free agent next year so we'll get a high pick for him"?

Looks like Freo might be happy to get rid of him very cheaply and may even de-list him. Now we've got next to no draft picks, I wouldn't be adverse to getting him in, as long as he's not asking for a heap of money and is happy to come in for pick 70 or whatever we've got.

Talk of Geelong using another future first rounder in getting Tuohy. Thought they used 2015 (danger), 2016 (Henderson) so wouldn't be eligible to do that? Anyone know how this works?

Hoping he might be the Hunt of this year, or Jetta of the year before. They both looked shot then had great seasons and are now in the first handful picked.

I agree, no idea why someone at the Blues keep thinking becoming the GWS seconds are a great idea. Could all come crashing down on them if it turns out SOS is a very ordinary recruiter and that a blind monkey would have got GWS into the same list position with the amount of concessions they got.

Think it was on Casey radio or one VFL game where they said JHK had been offered a 3 year deal from the Blues. Hasn't been a peep anywhere of that so I'd assume not, or would be a very late play if it did happen.

As far as I know we only need to make 3 changes to the senior list, so we've already got the 3 spots (Grimes, Terlich and MJones) and have brought in Lewis and Hib. So we could go to the draft and use only 1 pick. Not saying we will do that, I'd say Dawes and Newton will probably be delisted and we'll need to either upgrade a rookie or 2 or take 2 or 3 kids or look at the PSD if someone falls through that's worthwhile. Of course the trade period still has a day and a bit to play out, so who knows?

Yes but at this stage the only other option is Peders and I see him as insurance rather than a realistic best 22 player. Might take the Weid half the season to deserve the spot in the best, but I have no doubt he'll be there long term. Much like OMac this year, give them as much game time as possible because the aim is not just to get to finals - veterans like Dunn/Garlo/Dawes/Peders might get us an extra win - but the young guns will get us much closer to winning the whole thing.

FB: Frost - TMac - Jetta HB: Hibb - OMac - Hunt C: ??? - Tyson - ??? HF: CP5 - Hogan - Kent FF: Gartlett - Weid - Watts F: Gawn - Viney - Jones I think the above lines nearly pick themselves, then the 2 wing spots plus the interchange come from 6 of the following: Lewis, Stretch, Vince, Oliver, Brayshaw, Salem, Melksham, VDB, Harmes, Wagner or Bugg. Depending on who we are playing then Peders, Lumumba, BenKen could come into the thoughts. Then we've got Trenners, JHK, Garlo, ANB and Spencer who all need a big season if they are going to be around beyond 2017. Hulett is still developing so I wouldn't put him in that bracket and Mitch King is on the come back from injury, not sure if anyone else on the current list will be there after the trade period.

While his true value won't be measured in games played, he's played on average 22 games since 2005, incredibly durable hopefully that remains while imparting that experience he has. Great get for what is the equivalent of pick 61.

I agree their leg speed is not brilliant, it's their decision making which gives them speed. A handball to a player in space or a quick kick to an open player is much faster than given credit for. In reality only a small handful of guys on any team have blistering pace, we've got that with Hunt, but its the link up play which makes teams look quick or slow and I believe we'll seem much quicker this year with a bit more experience and players knowing each others games.

I don't think he's any quicker (leg speed) than Kent, Harmes, JHK or BenKen, plus from what I've seen he's no where near as quick (decision making) as Salem, Stretch or other mids such as Vince, Tyson, or Lewis who could be pushed to the outside at various times. I just can't see him offering anything to the club besides back up in case we get multiple injuries and even then he'll be a very long way down the pecking order. He's not new to the system so will command more $ than a draftee so I'd be happier if the club used a spot he could take on a kid.

I actually think the club half think we've got the "big fish" in house, that along with Hogan, guys like Trac, Oliver, Weid, Gus, Hunt etc. that one or more of them will become an elite of the comp. We're just a little impatient, but I suspect we'll fill in the gaps with role players (Lewis is the one out of the box but comes with experience), so we get to the point where the team has 2 or 3 elite, 5 - 8 A graders, then a heap of solid B graders.

Again as an outside mid he's behind a lot of guys, plus some of the small fwds I listed would move into that spot before he would as well. Don't get me wrong, he's not a terrible player and 12 months ago we could have considered him but right now we're stacked for guys who play a similar role he would and nearly all of them are in front of him.