How do you feel about Grimes?

Don't know enough Jarka. How do you feel about him?

Franky, it did come across badly but I wasn't trying to have a go at you.

Fair enough, Im touchy through being the butt from too many anti-demon jokes.

I honestly believe that when Jones and Valenti played together at Sandy (I saw three matches) that Valenti was as good.

Sometimes markedly.

Jones has however improved more than any player Ive watched since Rivers. Others seem to be shooting stars.

For pure nugget courage there has to be a place for him. But I am a Simon Godfrey fan and as such can only go down a wishin and a swinging.

cheers.

I said elsewhere today (or yesterday) that Jones, McLean, McDonald, and Moloney are too slow to play together in the midfield. I guess they made their choice. I'm ok with that. You can't have all 4.

Best reasoning I have seen for Moloney's ommission. If his contract's up this year, I reckon he is finished.

Best reasoning I have seen for Moloney's ommission. If his contract's up this year, I reckon he is finished.

And we keep Junior for how much longer? Moloney has 6 years ahead of him. JMac has what, 6 months?

Guys, we gotta stop just blindly saying oh how could you drop moloney, why OH WHY, he tried so hard etc etc. I love the guy but he's direct opponent on the day was chance bateman, which most of you dont realise seeing he was NOWHERE near him at any stage of the day, and you might want to compare the stats.

Bailey is sticking by playing FIT players. Rivers hasnt played for a year, let him have a few weeks to get up. Theres a difference between fitness and match fitness. He'll be back before we know it. Its not round 22, theres no need to be chucking in half fit players for no reason.

One thing to remember guys is that although most have us and the media have thrown melbournes finals hopes in the bin, and rightly so, im pretty sure the dees havent consigned to this fact and will be continuing to follow "Baileys Master Plan" to be up and running in the 2nd half of the season, not out of the gates and falling in a heap.

Chin up guys, lets see how the selected players respond this week!

And we keep Junior for how much longer? Moloney has 6 years ahead of him. JMac has what, 6 months?

Indeed. McDonald's neither here nor there when it comes to Moloney's future at the Club, IMO.

i thought wheatley was one of our better players last week...

I'd certainly not be dropping Wheatley, but I didn't think he played well. Perhaps, considering you've said one of our better players, rather than 'he had a good game', you agree.

Again Wheatley seems to be sacred.

He's missed his fair share of games - I wasn't aware he was ever 'sacred'.

Round 2 AFL teams

27/03/2008 4:48:17 PM

Sportal

MELBOURNE v WESTERN BULLDOGS

Saturday, 2:10pm AEST, MCG

MELBOURNE

B: Wheatley, Carroll, Garland

HB: Bartram, Bell, Buckley

C: Green, McLean, Morton

HF: Bruce, Miller, Dunn

F: Newton, Neitz, Robertson

FOLL: White, McDonald, Jones

I/C: Weetra, Sylvia, Davey, Johnson

EMG: Holland, Petterd, Moloney

IN: Bartram, Dunn, Sylvia

OUT: Moloney, Petterd, Yze

The Ins and Outs haven't changed the composition of the side, or the inherent problems.

Our backline lacks creativity and a genuine shutdown player. Johnson and Welsh will have a field day.

And whilst we have a forwardline that contains Neitz, Robertson, Newton/Miller, the opposition will create havoc on the rebound.

Our perceived lack of midfield pace is compounded by our structural problems in defence and forward lines.

how in the goddawmn hell do you drop three players, none of them bruce, and two of them YOUNG players?!??!?! i'd lover to know what the plan is

And we keep Junior for how much longer? Moloney has 6 years ahead of him. JMac has what, 6 months?

Junior's apparently been on his last legs for about 3 years now, and in that time he's won the last two B+F's. I would have thought we would have learned by now not to try and put a time limit on the guy.

H I believe we had this discussion at some point of the last 18 months (on demonology).

You were all over the "hard at it, in and under types". I recall something like "outside midfielders - consistently inconsistent" or the like. I called for balance in the group. At one stage I proposed swapping Sylvia for Daniel Wells (and I stand by that swap if NM were stupid enough to do it).

Anyway. Blind Freddy can see we can't play those 4 together in the same midfield. First in if it comes our way, 2nd in if it doesn't. No runners to receieve. Nasty slow inside midfield we have, huh!

CAC and Danners were obsessed with the Brisbane model but the game has moved on.

Do you post there under a different name ?

I've had a number of beefs over the last few years. And yes, outside mids are consistently inconsisitent due to their inability to win contested footy and therefore regularly influence games. It's a no brainer. And yes, we needed hard bodied, first dibs, play makers. It's a combination of quality in both areas that forms a successful footy side. I don't want one at the expense of the other. Brisbane had speed with Lappin, Aker, Hart, and Voss was quick over the first 5 metres. Combine those talents with Black's extraction ability, Voss's superb in tight handballing, the skill of Power, the run of McRae and Notting, and they had all bases covered.

I've also stated for 4 years that we had a terribly slow midfield. Many argued with me that pace is overrated. I'm not sure where they are now. Just because you're 'outside' doesn't make you quick, and just because you're quick doesn't make you a quality midfielder. I still like 'footballers' - quick or slow. At the moment we don't have the right balance, or anyone who's particularly threatening to the opposition in either camp - quick or slow. There's not many midfielders that are exceptionally good 'inside' and 'out', or that can combine those traits with blistering speed. It's why Judd was a freak at his peak. So, it's really a matter of getting the combination right of the 10, or so, who rotate through the middle.

Presently, we're being shown up in a number of areas, but especially midfield. Tigger said a few days ago that 'clearances' are overrated. I understand what he means, but effective clearances are still important, and I suggest that a number of our clearances are ineffective. Loose ball gets are very important too. I reckon we'll be down in this area through 08 due to our lack of leg speed. And finally, marks inside 50 are a very good barometer to how a team is travelling. As evidenced in the Hawthorn match. Jono Brown, Lynch, or Bradshaw would still be pretty handy in this regard.

Again Wheatley seems to be scared.

I tend to agree !

Don't know enough Jarka. How do you feel about him?

He's a quality kid who can win the ball but he seems to be one paced just like the rest our of midfield.

what about Bode....??? he seems to have good pace. surely he could fit in somewhere???

He's a quality kid who can win the ball but he seems to be one paced just like the rest our of midfield.

I've only seen a few minutes of Grimes on youtube, but was very impressed by what I saw. I don't care if he's one paced if he's really good. We have one paced midfielders who either aren't very good, or are no longer very good.

If he's a very good one paced midfielder he'll be top of the pops in no time.

Another theory maybe that neither Moloney or Petterd played according to instructions (lack of accountability)- actually I'd prefer this because it would mean regardless of how many possessions you get, you better do what your told or start learning at Sandy.

Guys, we gotta stop just blindly saying oh how could you drop moloney, why OH WHY, he tried so hard etc etc. I love the guy but he's direct opponent on the day was chance bateman, which most of you dont realise seeing he was NOWHERE near him at any stage of the day, and you might want to compare the stats.

i was going to comment the same thing. i thought moloney did ok when he had it, but his efforts the other way were terrible. so poor i thought that chance played effectively as a loose man. but you are right pipefitter, moloney was playing on chance, we just don't know what the instructions were. if moloney was told to be accountable, he certainly wasn't and that could explain the dropping...

CAC and Danners were obsessed with the Brisbane model but the game has moved on.

It worked for Geelong.

Bartel, Corey, Kelly, Enright don't have any deal of footspeed at all

Ablett and Wojcinski (who would have to be close to the quickest in the league) aside the whole Geelong team is pretty slow

Still too many inexperienced players for my liking. Maloney is a big loss and considering he performed far better last week than most of the others , I'm totally mysterfied by his absence...

Still need Holland back in...

I'm not confident with the team selection!

I'm not confident with the team selection!

Garry Lyon made a good point, you don't drop half the side, you make the same blokes go back out and make amends. If those same blokes fail to do that you learn a lot more then you would if you dropped them straight away.

I'm not confident with the team selection!

I 100% agree.

When I see players like Miller, Garland, Weetra, Morton (still very raw) and even Wheatley I don't get all that excited.

Do you post there under a different name ?

Left Field @ demonology. Agree wrt to footballer v athlete etc and outside doesn't mean quick (and vice versa). And ok (and I know its a close thing ), but most would prefer Brown, Lynch et al inside 50 rather than Neita and Robbo.

Here's my thing - I reckon winnings teams are generally first to any ball (loose or otherwise). By virtue of pace & match ups, our current midfield rotation are generally second to the ball (even to our own taps). Our defence always seems half a step behind (most do when you lose the midfield). But, and this is where it gets ugly, when we go forward we only ever seem to be first to the ball about half the time. Delivery, structure or pace - not sure. And when we don't win the ball, the opposition put handpass options behind the ball, switch immediately and take it out the other side of the ground without any contest (hard for Robbo and Newton, who are still regaining their feet).

He's a quality kid who can win the ball but he seems to be one paced just like the rest our of midfield.

Thanks Jarka - will look forward to seeing him play. Hopefully, someone with half a clue saw something intangible. On this, can anyone here explain why Greg Williams was a great player, and not just another club footballer? No pace, poor kicking skills etc. Maybe it was a mix of basic ability, training, self belief and persistence (suggestion Google - "Calvin Coolidge" & "persistence". One of my personal favourites)

It worked for Geelong.

Bartel, Corey, Kelly, Enright don't have any deal of footspeed at all

Ablett and Wojcinski (who would have to be close to the quickest in the league) aside the whole Geelong team is pretty slow

Bartel is "footy quick". Ablett is the tag magnet, but is good enough (and will get better) to defeat that. If we played GFC tomorrow , who from our team would play on Ablett? And (secondarily) who would then play on Bartel? Kelly has the easiest job in footy - a slow mid fielder who runs forward because they will probably need someone to give the footy to.

That's it for now......................

Greg Williams was a freak cos he a) knew where the ball was going well before anyone else and B) could give off a handball before the opposition even realised he had it.

For those of you that never saw him play, think Sam Mitchell but better at the aforementioned skills

can anyone here explain why Greg Williams was a great player, and not just another club footballer? No pace, poor kicking skills

His kicking skills weren't poor. He didn't kick the ball like Nathan Buckley, but penetration aside, his kicks virtually always hit their target.

His kicking skills weren't poor. He didn't kick the ball like Nathan Buckley, but penetration aside, his kicks virtually always hit their target.

Back then, anyone could hit open outside targets from 30 metres with enough time. These days, "up and under" kicks get found out at any distance anywhere on the ground. Now looking forward,.....

how in the goddawmn hell do you drop three players, none of them bruce, and two of them YOUNG players?!??!?! i'd lover to know what the plan is

Bruce is a quality player...!!!!