Why do you bother to barrack for the club, unless you know the how, where and wherefores of the decisions made you should stop carrying on like a spoilt child, you don't have to like it, but it has been made, so don't get rude about it.

I am angry about the decision but to date i have backed everything DB has done. My phrasing may not have been correct but it does make me angry a player like Green or davey who had a great year playing injured are not in the group and for that it does make me sick. I think of all Miller has done compared to the number of other players who would love to be given the oportunity to be in the group. Few people could honestly say they applaud the decision that was made. I love the MFC and have bought membership each year. I attend as many games as possible but working in hospitality it can be tough. Whether or not you agree with what i have said, i will continue to barrack for the club. And if saying "it makes me sick" is concidered rude then i appoligise for that. A lot of what i say is using words the community may not and for that i appoligise.

c'mon guys have give miller and yze one more chance! dean bailey and co kno alot more about them then us so no need to throw [censored] at em! im willing to back em up and support em. millers leadership is outstanding and i am not surprised!

well done miller and yze you have my support!!

go dees

now now sweethearts settle down

This topic should be revisited in Round 22... or better yet, after we win the flag*

*Disclaimer: flag not guaranteed

I am angry about the decision but to date i have backed everything DB has done. My phrasing may not have been correct but it does make me angry a player like Green or davey who had a great year playing injured are not in the group and for that it does make me sick. I think of all Miller has done compared to the number of other players who would love to be given the oportunity to be in the group. Few people could honestly say they applaud the decision that was made. I love the MFC and have bought membership each year. I attend as many games as possible but working in hospitality it can be tough. Whether or not you agree with what i have said, i will continue to barrack for the club. And if saying "it makes me sick" is concidered rude then i appoligise for that. A lot of what i say is using words the community may not and for that i appoligise.

No problems occo............ all ok after explaining that.

I've tried, but I cant understand some of these decisions at all.

Miller's attitude is beyond reproach, but its debatable whether he's even in the best 22. He should only be put in the leadership group if and when he cements his place in the actual side. Its just common sense: Godfrey set a good example on the field and was inspirational, but I doubt anyone would have had him in the leadership group. Yze is the epitome of wasted potential; he sets a terrible example on the field and I cant see why anyone would even remotely consider him as a leader. That's probably the one decision that shocks me the most.

I can see the argument for saying it's too early to have Jones in the leadership group but I dont really agree with it, I also see the argument for putting Bruce in the leadership group but disagree with that too: Jones might not have the experience but he's a born leader, Bruce might have experience but he's anything but. I cant understand for the life of me why they left Green out considering that, after Brock, he's the most logical choice for the next captain.

You can accuse me of being an armchair critic but I'm really not trying to be. I'm not going to say I'm "sickened", I wont even say that the decisions were wrong just yet, but some of them are very, very surprising.

I've tried, but I cant understand some of these decisions at all.

Miller's attitude is beyond reproach, but its debatable whether he's even in the best 22. He should only be put in the leadership group if and when he cements his place in the actual side. Its just common sense: Godfrey set a good example on the field and was inspirational, but I doubt anyone would have had him in the leadership group. Yze is the epitome of wasted potential; he sets a terrible example on the field and I cant see why anyone would even remotely consider him as a leader. That's probably the one decision that shocks me the most.

I can see the argument for saying it's too early to have Jones in the leadership group but I dont really agree with it, I also see the argument for putting Bruce in the leadership group but disagree with that too: Jones might not have the experience but he's a born leader, Bruce might have experience but he's anything but. I cant understand for the life of me why they left Green out considering that, after Brock, he's the most logical choice for the next captain.

You can accuse me of being an armchair critic but I'm really not trying to be. I'm not going to say I'm "sickened", I wont even say that the decisions were wrong just yet, but some of them are very, very surprising.

One thing that surprises me about the majority of opinions on this post is that people can't see beyond the leadership group and what it really stands for.

Can someone give me some insight into what special privileges that a leadership group member has over someone who is not in the group? Are there any?

What difference is it going to make if Brad Green is in the leadership group or not when he kicks 5 goals, has 30+ possessions, gets BOG and inspires the team to victory - It's just a label, and a false privilege, unless they are having a say at the selection table.

Comments?

You can accuse me of being an armchair critic but I'm really not trying to be. I'm not going to say I'm "sickened", I wont even say that the decisions were wrong just yet, but some of them are very, very surprising.

It is all a bit puzzling isn't it? For a long time posters here and supporters in general have been concerned about the lack of on- field leadership, or the effectiveness of it. At the beginning of a new era for the club, rather than promote new leadership the club decides to promote former (previously dumped) members of said group - Miller, Robertson, Yze; and maintain others who have been heavily criticized for their apparent inability to be counted at critical times - Bruce. There must be concerns about Neitz's durability. I agree with the views of many that McLean is the next logical long-term leader. Why not bite the bullett and give him the job now? Leave a couple of old heads in the leadership group - Junior would be one; and promote the next generation - Jones, Rivers, Davey would be a start. It's all very confusing to me - some might say I'm easily confused! Green has been very consistent over the past two years as a member of the leadership group, and although I am not a huge fan of his, I can't believe that he would be dropped from the group to be replaced by the incredibly talented but inconsistent (and in footy terms, old) Yze, who has done very little since 2002. Still, as an outsider, I guess others are in a better position than me to judge-on exposed form though, we have a right to be asking the question!

What is the point of this 'leadership group' anyway? Why not one captain and a leadership group of 21 players every week?? This is kinda stupid and potentially damaging to the bloke dumped out of the team.. Why stop at 6 guys? Why not have seven and keep Green in the leadership group? he was our best stand-in captain when neita was injured last year - did anyone else see him take the team over in front of the cheersquad at 3 quarter time in an attempt to fire them up?? I can't remember who against now..

On the other hand, obviously DB has put Frosty and Yze in there to get more out of them on the field.. and if it works then great.. clever tactic really when you think about it. And if it doesn't work then what have we lost?

http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/news/demons-ripe-for-new-season/2008/01/17/1200419973291.html

While I agree with the fact that the players should have the right to select/vote in the people they see as the most effective leaders within the club, surely the coaching staff would be keen on getting some more young blood in there. As Stephen Rielly states in this article (see above)

pherhaps selecting Nathan Jones was an oversight? and I agree get both Mclean and Jonesy in there to learn close at hand whats required!!

Time will tell...

I'm underwhelmed by the club's decision however this year was always going to be bit of a transition period between the old and the new. Neitz probably deserves to captain this year being our 150 anniversary, and it will give some of the younger guys a chance to play some consistent footy.

Having seen zero training sessions this year I have no idea who is firing and training hard, perhaps Yze has finally stepped up in this category - I doubt it but I'll be pleasantly surprised if the move works. Ditto for Miller although there has to come a point where he can no longer live on the reputation that he formed a couple of years ago when he huffed and puffed in a couple of games (and please no one mention the Fremantle game).

One thing I'd like to see the club do is to look to the future and not the past...perhaps next year?

One thing that surprises me about the majority of opinions on this post is that people can't see beyond the leadership group and what it really stands for.

Can someone give me some insight into what special privileges that a leadership group member has over someone who is not in the group? Are there any?

What difference is it going to make if Brad Green is in the leadership group or not when he kicks 5 goals, has 30+ possessions, gets BOG and inspires the team to victory - It's just a label, and a false privilege, unless they are having a say at the selection table.

Comments?

Good post demonscoast. I've gone from skeptical but accepting to totally disinterested. You could have everybody or nobody in the leadership group and it probably wouldn't make a lick of difference. I think we've all overreacted terribly here.

Good post demonscoast. I've gone from skeptical but accepting to totally disinterested. You could have everybody or nobody in the leadership group and it probably wouldn't make a lick of difference. I think we've all overreacted terribly here.

Thanks Nasher.

It's kind of like Demonland - good contributions can make a difference whether they come from the inner or the outer sanctums.

It's all good.

P.S Anyone know if there has ever been an Aboriginal Captain, and if so how many throughout the years?

[quote name='Nasher' date='Jan 18 2008, 04:38 PM' post='124232]

Good post demonscoast. I've gone from skeptical but accepting to totally disinterested. You could have everybody or nobody in the leadership group and it probably wouldn't make a lick of difference. I think we've all overreacted terribly here.

Gee has anybody thought that Green did not want to be part of this group and said to his peers I just concentrate on playing football, but I guess some posters know it all....

Gee has anybody thought that Green did not want to be part of this group and said to his peers I just concentrate on playing football, but I guess some posters know it all....

Did Green say that? I would be very surprised if he did, but you never know.

Players often say that a new coach is a good opportunity to wipe the slate clean. I think everyone that is ready to slash their wrists ought to have a long hard look at how Dean Bailey has approached everything so far.... He's a very smart operator.

What has he lost if the likes of Yze, Robbo or Miller don't measure up? Most of the people on here have written them off anyway. They either step up to the plate and take on the responsibility or it's situation no change.... the media beat about the age of the leadership group is crap... in virtually every field of endeavour you care to name - leaders are the one's with the experience.

Players often say that a new coach is a good opportunity to wipe the slate clean. I think everyone that is ready to slash their wrists ought to have a long hard look at how Dean Bailey has approached everything so far.... He's a very smart operator.

What has he lost if the likes of Yze, Robbo or Miller don't measure up? Most of the people on here have written them off anyway. They either step up to the plate and take on the responsibility or it's situation no change.... the media beat about the age of the leadership group is crap... in virtually every field of endeavour you care to name - leaders are the one's with the experience.

Partly correct. Leaders do generally have experience, but in almost every single case across the planet they have other characteristics, such as the ability to lead by example when the team needs it the most. To push past the point of exhaustion and continue to perform at the highest level.

Experience alone does not make a leader.

Partly correct. Leaders do generally have experience, but in almost every single case across the planet they have other characteristics, such as the ability to lead by example when the team needs it the most. To push past the point of exhaustion and continue to perform at the highest level.

Experience alone does not make a leader.

I was just thinking about some of the better footy leaders I have seen. Quite a few of them started out in their early to mid 20's - Carey was 21, Lyon 23, Kernahan 24 (but in only his second season), Hird 24, Terry Daniher 25, Voss 22, Worsfold 22 etc. It seems that in a lot of these instances the leader grows with the team. All of the above except Lyon and Hird(he wasn't Captain in 93) won at least two premierships as Captain. I would say each had a strong leadership group around them as well - even Lyon had blokes like Stynes, Viney, B and G Lovett.

The abovementioned were all young but relatively experienced players. I really believe this is the path we could (and should) have gone down with McLean. Most of these guys were good players before they became Captain, and then became great players. I'm not saying they wouldn't have been great players without being captain, but the position did not diminish their performance.

Leaders are born, not made.

You either have it, or you don't, and age or experience often have little to do with it.

With experience comes knowledge which may better your leadership skills, but no amount of time will ever create a leader out of someone who just isn't one.

If you're a leader, you'll act like one regardless of whether you have a label.

If Green really is captaincy material, he's going to show leadership around the Club and on the ground regardless of whether he's named in the leadership group.

Regarding Miller and others, not being in the best 22 doesn't preclude you from being a leader around the Club IMHO - it's not like he's Captain. Talent != leadership.

pick players with eladership qualities, not based on p[osition.

Absolutely.

Partly correct. Leaders do generally have experience, but in almost every single case across the planet they have other characteristics, such as the ability to lead by example when the team needs it the most. To push past the point of exhaustion and continue to perform at the highest level.

Experience alone does not make a leader.

I wasn't saying that experience was the only characteristic of a leader - there are many more obviously. To a large degree it's the way someone is raised that fosters leadership. I disagree that leaders are born. To argue that is to suggest that leadership can't be taught. If that's the case, a lot of organisations are in real trouble. As with most things in life, what really matters is a willingness to learn and adapt.

I don't know what Neita is thinking. I mean, I know at this time of year, the older players typically lose a few kegs to try and get a bit more mileage out of themselves, but seriously, David...

...you haven't got buckley's of getting into that mate.

(For those whose chosen abode at this time of year is beneath a large rock somewhere, or those who are currently tuned into channel nine 8 hours a day, the young lady is Ana Ivanovic, the world no. 4 women's tennis player)

The players have spoken, the know better than any of us who the leaders are at the club, considering no-one on here actually plays for Melbourne. Good choices by the boys

I don't know what Neita is thinking. I mean, I know at this time of year, the older players typically lose a few kegs to try and get a bit more mileage out of themselves, but seriously, David...

...you haven't got buckley's of getting into that mate.

(For those whose chosen abode at this time of year is beneath a large rock somewhere, or those who are currently tuned into channel nine 8 hours a day, the young lady is Ana Ivanovic, the world no. 4 women's tennis player)

Hmmmm....all of a sudden I'm interested in tennis!