Any Players Training With Us?

[Spirit of the Demon 255]

jonathon simpkin from sydney is training at melbourne

Jonathon who?

[Deelicious9 0]

Firstly settle down.

Secondly, your metric for assessing Valenti is crook. Bartram went straight into MFC in his first year and was good day one. Valenti has never been close to Bartram. Jones and Pettard made the step to AFL as soon as they were ready to go and not left to dominate in the VFL.

Be careful MFC have had a number of players who have dominated at VFL level and not cut it at AFL level and we have delisted many of them.

FWIW, PJ has won a Liston medal and struggles at AFL. A Liston medal is tinfoil and not a guarantee of AFL capability.

Thirdly, Bartram has played at VFL level and wasn't as good as Valenti. (Don't come back saying injury blah blah because i know that, granted.)

Fourthly, i know they weren't left to dominate in the VFL as im sure Valenti wouldn't have been either this year had he been on a list.

Finally, im not saying he'll dominate, or even ever get a game, or even make the list. Im clearly saying to some idiot that he deserves his chance at a pre-season and an opportunity to show what he's got to get on the list.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

Yes I have seen him play and while he is good at that level, does not stand out to me that he would take the next level,

Fair enough, everyone's entitled to their opinion.

15 other clubs might have a better idea than us about what they think of him, I would tend to go with their thoughts first,

Ok. I'm going to need more from you on this one to penetrate your reasoning. Why would 15 other clubs have a "better" idea than the MFC trainers and recruiters? Because we're not as good as the other clubs? Because we're not as wealthy? Because our influence doesn't reach as far being a poorer club with less members?

On top of all this, consider that Mark Williams has coached him for a couple of seasons now, and was always very much a part of the inner sanctum at MFC. He is now our development coach and would have arguably a better idea of Valenti's abilities than ANYONE. Plus he is a proven VFL coach, which hints at his quality and footy knowledge. As far as I'm concerned, if I was a recruiter working for one of the other clubs and I was interested in Shane, I would be trying to get a hold of ANY of Williams' (or MFC's) thoughts on the kid as they'd be the most accurate and profound. Likewise if I wanted to know about a guy playing in his second year at East Fremantle, I would expect Chris Connolly to have a better idea of his worth than CAC... Do you see my point? And as a last point, consider that we have a head recruiter that is approaching a decade in the job and is generally regarded as one of the better ones going around. So much so other AFL clubs are headhunting him. Now why would MFC's opinion of this player be less reliable than all 15 clubs? I would have put us right at number 1 on that list.

Which player jumped at you, Newton or Valenti as a future player when you saw them play?

If I had to choose between the two, on the day, I would have taken Juice, but then everyone would have. He kicked 6 goals in one of the matches I saw, and you just don't release potential CHFs who have sticky hands, a huge leap, a bit of mongrel, a nicely shaped kick, a sharp turning circle and the ability to chase and win his own ball. Valenti outplayed him, was coming up to 30 touches on the day and was the most dominant midfielder, but then we already have good inside midfielders coming through. The choice to take Juice is based as much on his designation and position as his ability. But I think I see your point. If what you're talking about is a question of "class" or "upside" then yes, Juice had AFL player written all over him every time he went on the park, except for his god-awful intra-club match... Valenti also has class, but not as much. I remember debating the Juice phenomenon with RR earlier this year, and I think the general consensus was that Juice's skill set was always going to translate smoothly into the seniors. That is, his effect on the game would be similar. The tall blokes don't get any shorter.

again I say while he has done what he has done in the VFL I do not believe he can do the same in the AFL, and that is the yard stick to go by or as they say someone who jumps at you with quality when you watch them.

Mmm. And like I said, you're entitled to your opinion. And to be honest, I think the odds are against Valenti, even now. What he shows on the pitch, I love... that is the ability to deliver a laces-out pass under enormous pressure and the ability to win his own ball. Like you said, just because he can do it in the VFL, doesn't mean he can do it in the AFL. My point is he has shown that he has a precosious talent, and just because we think he won't doesn't mean he can't. As I've said before, his size will hurt him, and he may be a one-trick pony.

I am not saying Valenti will or wont make it but if CAC or any other recruiter were to adopt that stance then they should not be in the job.

Exactly. Under ND we followed the curve season after season, repeating the tactics and recruiting models of whatever club held the premiership that year. Doing that we were always going to be "ok" but were never going to beat the best 4 sides that year. CAC has recruited some hum-dingers in recent years precisely because he tore up the recruiting manual years ago. Inspiration and lateral thinking are what get you places. He rolls the dice and gets us the results...

Summers is training too by the way.

Really? I don't suppose you can elaborate on his profile. I don't know much about him...

jonathon simpkin from sydney is training at melbourne

Ditto...

Thirdly, Bartram has played at VFL level and wasn't as good as Valenti. (Don't come back saying injury blah blah because i know that, granted.)

You reckon? He played every game for the dees in his first season, and in his second he played 2 games when horrifically underdone (sorry, mentioned injury) and was BOG in the quarters he played (5 quarters out of a possible 8 from memory).

[monoccular 17,432]

And Valenti has done what to be be on the list?

As much as can be done from VFL level, and a hell of a lot more than most if not all of us here.

He is hard in and under, and may be worth working on as a rookie - that's all.

Nobody is suggesting (yet) that he will be the next Chri$$$ Judd, but he could turn out to be a useful player at worst.

Martin is a hard working beanpole who could also be worth putting some work into

Two very contrasting players.

[demon3165 2,726]

Dappa,

I was also including us and then 15 other clubs that would know better than us (demonland people) on whether Valenti can make it. Sorry if it did not read that way.

Look while I do not think he will make it, that does not mean he will not, I will take into account that this year with development coaches and people fast tracking players one never knows and as a Melbourne Supporter I only want the best players we can get, and if he one of them, it will be good to be proved wrong.

[Deelicious9 0]

Summers is around the 180 cm mark, maybe a tad taller. MIdfielder who works hard and his real tough. Excellant kick of the footy too i reckon and a leader who plays with passion.

[dazzledavey36 55,000]

summers is also a dee supporter.. not that it matterd much

[Yencks 8]

jonathon simpkin from sydney is training at melbourne.......who?? any good info/pics

[The Fergburger 0]

Summers is around the 180 cm mark, maybe a tad taller. MIdfielder who works hard and his real tough. Excellant kick of the footy too i reckon and a leader who plays with passion.

couldnt agree any more.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

Dappa,

I was also including us and then 15 other clubs that would know better than us (demonland people) on whether Valenti can make it. Sorry if it did not read that way.

Oh... Bugger.

That could have saved me 20 minutes of typing...