loving Pauls transparency, and the more posts, emails, and general communication the better imo

On 22/10/2025 at 16:13, Demonology said:

think he was told to?

Yes I do think, but he did ask the question is he welcome at the club if a deal isn't found and was told yes.

I think we will probably finish 14th as we did this year

I think Richmond over achieved last year, and WC and North have not improved very much

Port and Essendon will be down here as well IMO

On 24/10/2025 at 07:11, Demon Disciple said:

Brisbane……….couldnt even beat us on their home deck.

They couldn't move physically that day and their ball movement was surprisingly slow, which indicates a heavy training phase.

They even drew to Norf in Tassie.

On 24/10/2025 at 11:05, Macca said:

As for Gawn, is he such a good leader?

Putting aside the good bloke factor and Max's outstanding football ability, it was under his watch as captain when things went pear-shaped within the playing group

You don't win a flag unless your captain is a good leader. They're too hard to win.

You don't win in spite of your captain.

Edited 11 hours ago11 hr by Gator

14 minutes ago, Gator said:

You don't win a flag unless your captain is a good leader. They're too hard to win.

You don't win in spite of your captain.

He's good in many areas but not perfect. Post 2021, as a pillar of the club, he has to accept some sort of responsibility for the list going off the rails

Many here are/were quick to point the finger at Goodwin but Gawn is the captain

We heard that the players were given autonomy with regards to how they prepared for games. That's ok until the losses start incurring

So what is the skipper doing? And that unholy mess with Grundy?

Could be that he was a good captain and now, not so much

Mind you, it's not like we have any adequate replacements for Capt. & VC

57 minutes ago, Macca said:

He's good in many areas but not perfect. Post 2021, as a pillar of the club, he has to accept some sort of responsibility for the list going off the rails

Many here are/were quick to point the finger at Goodwin but Gawn is the captain

We heard that the players were given autonomy with regards to how they prepared for games. That's ok until the losses start incurring

So what is the skipper doing? And that unholy mess with Grundy?

Could be that he was a good captain and now, not so much

Mind you, it's not like we have any adequate replacements for Capt. & VC

Unless you're inside the club you wouldn't know.

But you don't win a flag with a captain who isn't a good leader.

1 hour ago, Macca said:

And that unholy mess with Grundy?

I still can't get my head around the idea that Grundy didn't work because of Gawn.

What did Gawn do that made this unworkable?

I agree with Macca. Under his watch as captain the club has gone backwards. It’s not his fault, but it has highlighted some weaknesses in his leadership.

No one on our list would have been a better option than Gawn though. But to claim the highs you must also claim the lows.

Not a knock on Max though, no one is perfect. And even if they were, having to lead when the likes of Roffey, Pert and Goodwin were coming up so short would drown anybody.

16 minutes ago, Gator said:

Unless you're inside the club you wouldn't know.

But you don't win a flag with a captain who isn't a good leader.

That was then, and the goalposts have moved since that dream run in 2021

For instance (and many were saying the same at the time), Max should have either put his hand up to play forward in the 2023 Semi final or told to play forward by Goodwin (Grundy rucks)

Going into that SF, Melk, Brown, Petty, JVR, T-Mac & Fritsch were either out (4) or incapacitated (T-Mac & Fritsch)

Do that and I believe we'd have won and then played in a PF (with JVR returning)

History might tell us that that loss was the beginning of the end (of that mini era)

So Max is far from perfect

6 minutes ago, The Taciturn Demon said:

I still can't get my head around the idea that Grundy didn't work because of Gawn.

What did Gawn do that made this unworkable?

See my post above

1 hour ago, Macca said:

That was then, and the goalposts have moved since that dream run in 2021

For instance (and many were saying the same at the time), Max should have either put his hand up to play forward in the 2023 Semi final or told to play forward by Goodwin (Grundy rucks)

Going into that SF, Melk, Brown, Petty, JVR, T-Mac & Fritsch were either out (4) or incapacitated (T-Mac & Fritsch)

Do that and I believe we'd have won and then played in a PF (with JVR returning)

History might tell us that that loss was the beginning of the end (of that mini era)

So Max is far from perfect

Unless you're inside the club you wouldn't know.

But you don't win a flag with a captain who isn't a good leader.

20 minutes ago, Gator said:

Unless you're inside the club you wouldn't know.

But you don't win a flag with a captain who isn't a good leader.

In the space of a few short years we went from selfless to selfish to starting all over again

Key Pillars

• Pres (gone)

• CEO (gone)

• Coach (gone)

• GM (going?)

• Captain (questionable)

21 minutes ago, Macca said:

In the space of a few short years we went from selfless to selfish to starting all over again

Key Pillars

• Pres (gone)

• CEO (gone)

• Coach (gone)

• GM (going?)

• Captain (questionable)

Unless you're inside the club you wouldn't know.

But you don't win a flag with a captain who isn't a good leader.

2 hours ago, The Taciturn Demon said:

I still can't get my head around the idea that Grundy didn't work because of Gawn.

What did Gawn do that made this unworkable?

Grundy was a bad list call.

That's not on Max.

8 minutes ago, rjay said:

Grundy was a bad list call.

That's not on Max.

What was true is that we went into the finals series in 2023 with an undermanned forward line with very little marking power

Gawn had to be thrown forward with Grundy rucking ... not hindsight either as we had a whole thread about the make-up of the team

We blew any chance of winning, especially against Carlton

10 minutes ago, rjay said:

Grundy was a bad list call.

Absolute shocker. Far too often shrugged away with "worth a try".

They either had to do something genuinely strategically groundbreaking or it was never going to work. Max is one of the best, defense-oriented contested marking rucks of the last 25 - maybe 50 - years and has never kicked more than 16 goals in a season. Grundy can't mark above his head and has never kicked more than 12.

18 minutes ago, Macca said:

What was true is that we went into the finals series in 2023 with an undermanned forward line with very little marking power

Gawn had to be thrown forward with Grundy rucking ... not hindsight either as we had a whole thread about the make-up of the team

We blew any chance of winning, especially against Carlton

That's a whole different story 'Macca'...and we don't know what was going on behind the scenes there.

My point was Grundy was a bad list call and that's not on Max.

22 minutes ago, rjay said:

That's a whole different story 'Macca'...and we don't know what was going on behind the scenes there.

My point was Grundy was a bad list call and that's not on Max.

Fair enough

As for the blown selection criteria in the finals of 2023, it has to (mainly) get back to the coach as it's his team

But Schache instead of Grundy? Bewildering decision

21 minutes ago, Macca said:

Fair enough

As for the blown selection criteria in the finals of 2023, it has to (mainly) get back to the coach as it's his team

But Schache instead of Grundy? Bewildering decision

It sure was a bewildering decision 'Macca', you would have to hope their was some solid reasoning behind it...

4 minutes ago, rjay said:

It sure was a bewildering decision 'Macca', you would have to hope their was some solid reasoning behind it...

If Grundy did check out then why would we let a player on a big contract check out so easily? Poor management. He was a required player

And aren't there contracts to be fulfilled?

As previously stated, all those 'incidents' involving poor behaviour, and then all those injuries leading into the 2023 finals series. That was our last chance in that mini era

Reckon the club knew the writing was on the wall thus the recruiting of 4 first round pick mids after working our way up in the last 2 drafts

And again, another 2 first rounders in this upcoming draft along with at least 2 more 1st rounders next year

8 mid 'types' all-up, over the space of 4 off seasons?

1 hour ago, rjay said:

That's a whole different story 'Macca'...and we don't know what was going on behind the scenes there.

My point was Grundy was a bad list call and that's not on Max.

So Goodwin gets all the blame there? Max went along with it when the going got tough on him being able to move forward and be selfless - he was the one that couldn’t do it. He could not sacrifice his game to see whether that would improve the team.

For those that say - Max was/is the best solo ruckman in the game and we are making him a forward for 60 mins a game?!

I am not arguing that that is a great strategy - it’s a failure from the jump. Yep absolutely. The thinking was flawed.

But Max also has to take the hit - whether he wants it or not - that he refuses to work with other rucks and wants it entirely on his terms. That is the challenge of his brilliance.

6 minutes ago, rpfc said:

So Goodwin gets all the blame there? Max went along with it when the going got tough on him being able to move forward and be selfless - he was the one that couldn’t do it. He could not sacrifice his game to see whether that would improve the team.

For those that say - Max was/is the best solo ruckman in the game and we are making him a forward for 60 mins a game?!

I am not arguing that that is a great strategy - it’s a failure from the jump. Yep absolutely. The thinking was flawed.

But Max also has to take the hit - whether he wants it or not - that he refuses to work with other rucks and wants it entirely on his terms. That is the challenge of his brilliance.

I understand your point but we don't know that Max refused, or wanted to ruck purely on his terms.

My thoughts on this are that Max has never been able to play as a forward, he just can't do it.

As you well know (as a forward yourself) it's not that easy.

We had tried it before when the wisdom of the FD of the time tried to make Max a forward and Spencer the number one ruck (at Casey). It didn't work there and was never going to work at AFL level.

So we tried again, and it again failed. No surprises there.

Maybe rather than Max refusing or wanting to play only on his terms which is an interesting narrative, the FD realised we were better as a team with Max in the ruck and that Grundy was not a forward.

It could really be a simple as this.

.

Edited 4 hours ago4 hr by jnrmac

Someone threw a tanty....

'I'm not playing forward....'