1 minute ago, Young Blood said:

GC wouldn't look horrible to market at all. Trac and/or his management has approached them saying he wants to go there. Doesn't sound like they were hunting him as such. They have a pretty elite midfield as is and tracking along nicely with a future Trac like game breaking player in Humphrey. Adding Trac to that mix would be a cherry on top and take them up a level of course. But it makes complete sense for them to hold firm and stick with what will likely be two first rounders and maybe one or two futures.

I don't understand this idea that we deserve more for our star than previous deals in the past for other stars in their prime without questions marks. Why is this any different? When was the last time a player of this calibre was involved in a trade where the club got a star or potential future star in return? Judd/Kennedy trade? Thats a genuine question I'd love someone with better memory to find some other recent examples.

Unfortunately, Trac has nominated GC and that means he is headed there and it would be extremely unlikely a deal doesn't get done. Because they pretty much always do and its so dumb how AFL trading works in that way.

You don't nominate a club unless that club has given you various assurances that a trade can and will be done.

Remember, we've been pretty clear all the way along here that if Trac wants to go, it's up to his management to find a deal that satisfies Melbourne.

That would be two pronged:

1) that whichever club Trac nominates will pick up his entire salary

and

2) that the club has something valuable it can give to satisfy Melbourne.

A handy small forward who's played 18 games in two years (Rogers) and wants to leave because he can't crack into their best 22 permanently and a first rounder is not going to do it.

And the Suns are unlikely to go into a huge points deficit to match bids on their academy players because they've traded picks 6 and 7 for Trac.

This leaves the Suns in a position where they hope to get a deal done for Trac with mere picks, but simply can't. We're not interested in this draft.

They need to come up with an appropriate trade.

That trade is Humphrey, a Victorian boy is who out the door in 3 years anyway, and already meeting with Victorian clubs.

We are the only Victorian club that has the capital to get the deal done, and with Trac (and likely Clarry going) we have ample salary cap to splash here.

I am increasingly confident that Humphrey will be a Melbourne player and have solace that Trac will be otherwise. Win, win.

Edited 7 hours ago7 hr by Adam The God

9 minutes ago, Adam The God said:

You don't nominate a club unless that club has given you various assurances that a trade can and will be done.

Remember, we've been pretty clear all the way along here that if Trac wants to go, it's up to his management to find a deal that satisfies Melbourne.

That would be two pronged:

1) that whichever club Trac nominates will pick up his entire salary

and

2) that the club has something valuable it can give to satisfy Melbourne.

A handy small forward who's played 18 games in two years (Rogers) and wants to leave because he can't crack into their best 22 permanently and a first rounder is not going to do it.

And the Suns are unlikely to go into a huge points deficit to match bids on their academy players because they've traded picks 6 and 7 for Trac.

This leaves the Suns in a position where they hope to get a deal done for Trac with mere picks, but simply can't. We're not interested in this draft.

They need to come up with an appropriate trade.

That trade is Humphrey, a Victorian boy is who out the door in 3 years anyway, and already meeting with Victorian clubs.

We are the only Victorian club that has the capital to get the deal done, and with Trac (and likely Clarry going) we have ample salary cap to splash here.

I am increasingly confident that Humphrey will be a Melbourne player and have solace that Trac will be otherwise. Win, win.

I will be praying along with you re Humphrey!

But whats stopping GC with Humphrey from doing exactly what we're doing with Trac, regardless of whether he wants to move back to Victoria or not. He's a contracted player and his value is unfortunately far higher than Trac's at the moment. I'm sure they're fine holding him for 3 more years with him contributing in finals and maybe even changing his mind as players do to sign on.

Yes GC would have made some sort of gaurentees that they felt they can provide the deal to get the trade done. But like I said that value would have been based off previous stars being traded for multiple first round picks.

Edited 7 hours ago7 hr by Young Blood

5 hours ago, Frustrated Demon said:

We said we want a player ...

No we haven't.

8 minutes ago, Young Blood said:

I will be praying along with you re Humphrey!

But whats stopping GC with Humphrey from doing exactly what we're doing with Trac, regardless of whether he wants to move back to Victoria or not. He's a contracted player and his value is unfortunately far higher than Trac's at the moment.

Because they need to give something up for Trac.

We'd have preferred to keep Trac, but since he wanted to explore options we've gone for the guy we've loved since his draft year and tried to nab on draft night.

8 minutes ago, Young Blood said:

Yes GC would have made some sort of gaurentees that they felt they can provide the deal to get the trade done. But like I said that value would have been based off previous stars being traded for multiple first round picks.

The assurances would have been based off all the capital they have. Draft picks and players.

My feeling on the Suns is they don't want to be seen to be giving up potential superstars easily, so a game of posturing plays out before they ultimately accept Trac for Humphrey.

2 minutes ago, Adam The God said:

Because they need to give something up for Trac.

We'd have preferred to keep Trac, but since he wanted to explore options we've gone for the guy we've loved since his draft year and tried to nab on draft night.

The assurances would have been based off all the capital they have. Draft picks and players.

My feeling on the Suns is they don't want to be seen to be giving up potential superstars easily, so a game of posturing plays out before they ultimately accept Trac for Humphrey.

Love your optimism, and as I say, I'm praying that your feelings/speculation come to fruition.

Edited 7 hours ago7 hr by Young Blood

9 hours ago, Whispering_Jack said:

Absolute nonsense. Petracca is a substantially better player than Rioli and is contracted for a significant period to come. Each draft is different but pick 6 this year is not going to be anywhere near close to pick 6. To suggest that pick 17 = the difference between Petracca and Rioli is an insult to Cornes’ intelligence if indeed, he has any.

9 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

• "I think you give 6 and 17 for Petracca...that is more than fair for him. He is a better player than Dan Rioli, and Rioli got them pick 6."

I checked and Cornes was wrong. These were the terms of the Rioli trade:-

Traded Player:

Daniel Rioli: Richmond Tigers defender joins Gold Coast Suns on a five-year contract.

Trade Terms:

Gold Coast Suns Receive:

Daniel Rioli Picks 51, 61, 70, and 76

Richmond Tigers Receive:

• Picks 6 and 23

I haven’t read the whole thread so I don’t know if it’s been picked up but it says something about Cornes and his credibility which was never a strength. It’s something he shares with others in his business.

Absolutely has to be stated that if the Suns think Flanders is worth pick 7, Petracca is worth 6 top 10 picks.

2 hours ago, Macca said:

Were these years 'predicted' or the results from evaluation, years later?

I can’t answer from before my time but we generally evaluate xyz players and evaluate against previous draft players etc. Honestly once you see them play quite a few times at the carnivals etc you start to get a feeling for it. Was hard when I first started but after a few years doing stacks of research, watching games etc you just get a feeling for it. It’s like any job to be honest.

1 hour ago, Adam The God said:

King wants to coach Trac remember.

Can't believe people are hanging on this as if it means something.

Mitch Cleary on ch 7 news reckons it’s picks and not players that we’ll be getting from GC.

And we won’t be paying a cent of his contract.

I can’t see a world where we get BH.

18 minutes ago, bing181 said:

No we haven't.

Yes we did at the start of the draft. Has that now changed? It may have.

1 hour ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

2003 was Cooney Sylvia McLean etc

Pendlebury was 2005 with Dale Thomas & Marc Murphy I think

You maybe right. I was just jogging the old memory. I’ll have a look when I get home.

4 hours ago, Dockett 32 said:

No. We want a quality player and draft pick for a top 5 player in the competition.

A head turner.

Could try turn 6 and 7 into pick 1 or 2 even in a weaker draft that’s still going to be a good player, think there is a ruck / fwd in the first few but this time he’s from vic

6, 14, 17

for Petracca, 23

Is my guess

2 minutes ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

Mitch Cleary on ch 7 news reckons it’s picks and not players that we’ll be getting from GC.

And we won’t be paying a cent of his contract.

I can’t see a world where we get BH.

Damn you Mitchell Cleary!

1 minute ago, adonski said:

6, 14, 17

for Petracca, 23

Is my guess

Not sure that leaves the subs with enough points, think we throw in 27 and 41 and go after 6 and 7.

Just now, DeeSpencer said:

Not sure that leaves the subs with enough points, think we throw in 27 and 41 and go after 6 and 7.

That'd be fun. Would only need to get through the first 4 hours of draft night to see our picks that way.

2 minutes ago, Frustrated Demon said:

Yes we did at the start of the draft. Has that now changed? It may have.

If you can find a quote from (say) Lamb to this effect, I'd be interested to see it.

All I've seen is the club saying "improve our list", "turn our heads" etc. Very general.

3 minutes ago, bing181 said:

If you can find a quote from (say) Lamb to this effect, I'd be interested to see it.

All I've seen is the club saying "improve our list", "turn our heads" etc. Very general.

You are correct mate, I obviously misread. I just check and yes I was wrong your statement is correct.

8 minutes ago, adonski said:

6, 14, 17

for Petracca, 23

Is my guess

Something like that. 6 or 7 plus the equivalent of a lower first round, either this year or next.

One thing people are constantly overlooking in all this is Petracca's age plus - and it's a big plus - he's on a massive contract that the Suns will have to take on board. Neither work in our favour.

3 minutes ago, Frustrated Demon said:

I can’t answer from before my time but we generally evaluate xyz players and evaluate against previous draft players etc. Honestly once you see them play quite a few times at the carnivals etc you start to get a feeling for it. Was hard when I first started but after a few years doing stacks of research, watching games etc you just get a feeling for it. It’s like any job to be honest.

Righto, fair enough

My evaluation is that in terms of expectations (and that varies) close on 40% of all 1st round picks are busts (on average, over a number of different drafts)

e.g. Pick 4 should an A Grader but as it turned out, he's just a solid player ... in some ways, that's a bust. Worse still if the pick 4 is a below average footballer (Morton, Toumpas)

And then there are all the players outside of the top 30 picks that can turn out to be good, very good or even gun players

Off the top of my head ... Gawn 36, Fritsch 31, Rivers 32, T-Mac 50, ANB 52 Harmes Rookie etc etc ... all premiership players

I'm a sceptic but totally recognise that the top 5 are better than the next 5 and so on and so forth

And then there's Jason Taylor who's strike rate rivals Scott Clayton, Stephen Wells and whoever were the head recruiters of the Hawks & Tiges

In general terms, Taylor doesn't draft players who turn out to be busts... I reckon his hit rate is about 85% (again, in terms of expectations)

In Taylor we trust

And despite the doom & gloom surrounding this years draft, who's to say that Taylor won't strike gold again if we load him up with 5 or 6 picks

As it stands, we're likely to need up to a dozen new players to replace the rookies and primary list players who are vacating

2 minutes ago, Macca said:

In general terms, Taylor doesn't draft players who turn out to be busts... I reckon his hit rate is about 85% (again, in terms of expectations)

Agree, and if it's the only possibility, happy to go to the draft and let Taylor and co. do their work.

Against that, I suspect the club would have preferred to balance the list with players who are further along in their careers. But those players have to be available, and they have to want to come to us.

11 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Not sure that leaves the subs with enough points, think we throw in 27 and 41 and go after 6 and 7.

20 minutes ago, Ted Lasso said:

Absolutely has to be stated that if the Suns think Flanders is worth pick 7, Petracca is worth 6 top 10 picks.

Yes.

No one seems to be listening.

GCS get 7 for Flanders and suggestion is for us to accept 6 and a couple and a couple of other later first round picks that will be pushed back?

That’s not a head turner it’s a complete rogering.

Lamb won’t fall for that. Seems to me a suitable player ( as well as picks) needs to involved in any trade.

We are in complete control of a suitabl

26 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Not sure that leaves the subs with enough points, think we throw in 27 and 41 and go after 6 and 7.

Looking like no suitable player needs/ no trade.

6 or 7 and suitable player gets it done. Everything else no thanks.

Lambs in control and extra later picks have no value.

Just now, bing181 said:

Agree, and if it's the only possibility, happy to go to the draft and let Taylor and co. do their work.

Against that, I suspect the club would have preferred to balance the list with players who are further along in their careers. But those players have to be available, and they have to want to come to us.

I've felt all along that we'll be busy on draft day (unless we were able to land some genuinely talented players instead of picks)

And to me, it's exciting times with Taylor at the helm

And if we just go to the draft (along with the acquisition of Mihocek) then it's a genuine rebuild (of sorts)

If they go, we should get a decent return for Trac* but fingers crossed re Clarrie (might be related to how much of his salary that we subsidise)

*6 & 7 (or 17?)

For Oliver, I'd jump at a first round pick, all things considered

Plus, any 2nd rounders that we can get hold of (again, let Taylor have a go in that area of the draft)