7 minutes ago, nextskipclaz said:

Finally, since you seem to want further content to elucidate your vague feeling that I’m right about Chandler: He is not a premiership player. Nor will he ever be. And he’s done a good job of making you believe he’s a valuable player. Like I said: he’s a mole, he’s a fake - his intentions as a footballer are not true. He has a false arrogance which is a mask to show the coaches (ands stupid fans like you) that he belongs in the team. But no one who actually belongs in the team is wasting their time trying to show the coaches or guileless fans that they are worthy. They just play the game because they are good at it.

36 minutes ago, Gibberish said:
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I think that's a bit unfair on Chaplin. How much change do expect him to effect on the team in 3 weeks. The forward 50 disconnect has been symptomatic for 4 seasons at least.

And Chaplin was the forward coach this year, this is the fault of the gameplan a one paced lack of skill midfield that started in 22 you cannot have Viney Oliver and Trac in the midfield at the same time unless hey believe Oliver can change roles he is going to struggle, drop Viney and Salem, Sparrow, leave Kossie in the forward line the same with Trac just introduce some run next week it doesn't matter about the result and before someone says but Kossie has the run he is more dangerous as a forward than a midfielder.

21 minutes ago, deegirl said:

Just hope Bruest doesn’t try to wear Koz’ XXXXS size spray on jumper 😂

Why did they do this?

Since the entire effort was cooked I’ll call out three of the small things about today’s performance that drove me (further) insane

How is Bowza, the smallest bloke on the field, one of the few who sticks his tackles?

Players such as Chandler going for the Hollywood 1% play instead of executing the simple. We play like we’re millionaires when we ain’t

THE FUMBLING IS INCESSANT. We are never clean

Edited 17 hours ago17 hr by deegirl
Spelling

35 minutes ago, Hellfire Dub said:

I sat behind the goals on level 1 until half time and level 4 till 3/4 time. I think that's the lowest Demon contingent I've ever seen at the G and can you blame fans for not showing up when the professionals didn't want to be there.

I was surrounded by 5h1t3 hawks everywhere and the sound of their bandwagon rolling along.

I normally stay till the bitter ends but today was the first day I left at 3/4 time when we had just 4 goals on the board. Abysmal performance and negligible pride.

Me, too HD, though I stayed through.

Extraordinary imbalance of numbers, evident from the outset (see my pre-game posts)

But 53,000? Maybethe head count had an inevitable 'Tasmanian' element to it?

10 minutes ago, GS_1905 said:

Well kind of. Modern game relies elite kicking and the odd turnover. With the amount of turnovers we give teams our defense has absolutely no chance.

the game last against the Doggies was a bit of furphy - they are bog ordinary behind the ball.

I’m 100% convinced there are fractures in the group. The lack of team effort is worrying. Whoever is not head first into a rebound next year and extra training and preseason sessions ,F them all off over trade week. I’m sick of the pea hearted tackles week after week. You don’t need skill to apply an effective tackle , it’s all determination.

This is my point though. I’m not buying “the modern game…” idea. It’s all been done before. Our 2021 team and gameplan would be top 4 right now.

3 minutes ago, demon3165 said:

And Chaplin was the forward coach this year, this is the fault of the gameplan a one paced lack of skill midfield that started in 22 you cannot have Viney Oliver and Trac in the midfield at the same time unless hey believe Oliver can change roles he is going to struggle, drop Viney and Salem, Sparrow, leave Kossie in the forward line the same with Trac just introduce some run next week it doesn't matter about the result and before someone says but Kossie has the run he is more dangerous as a forward than a midfielder.

We've lost a year or two of development because we haven't tried players in different positions. We have been so inflexible that it makes it easier for the opposition as we're so predictable.

I don't think we are in the position to get any value out of Petracca or Oliver (no that I want to see them leave) but we needed more experimentation for what has largely been a lost season.

17 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I thought starting Melksham as sub was an inspired choice.

That was a DUMB decision

Went along today maybe expecting a side keen to impress any potential new coach.

All I saw was a team lacking in confidence, any team cohesion, and terrible skills.

Hawks skills are chalk and cheese compared to ours.

Trac is so fumbly now, it’s a real shame.

Lot of work ahead for whoever is brave enough to take the big job.

1 minute ago, demon3165 said:

36 minutes ago, Gibberish said:
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I think that's a bit unfair on Chaplin. How much change do expect him to effect on the team in 3 weeks. The forward 50 disconnect has been symptomatic for 4 seasons at least.

And Chaplin was the forward coach this year, this is the fault of the gameplan a one paced lack of skill midfield that started in 22 you cannot have Viney Oliver and Trac in the midfield at the same time unless hey believe Oliver can change roles he is going to struggle, drop Viney and Salem, Sparrow, leave Kossie in the forward line the same with Trac just introduce some run next week it doesn't matter about the result and before someone says but Kossie has the run he is more dangerous as a forward than a midfielder.

They’re all football people. Chaplin is no different. And he’s under 40y/o! Unworldly and green, and completely ‘footballed’ in the brains.

These days team science is a lot more about understanding the subtle synergies (or lack thereof) within the group. The relationships, the friendships, the accountability between ‘people’ not just players. There transparency, the understanding of personal and self development, the inclusion of art , philosophy , discussion, challenging the nature of these human beings and young men (who all have variety of callings and proclivities) . It is a for a good coach to draw on these elements. And if it can’t be done by a coach , then the club needs other cultural ambassadors and informants: women, people from artistic backgrounds, from various cultural backgrounds etc. to take them away from footy, for part of the week. And to develop connection with each other. Deepen , broaden connection.

Footy is hard to do for half the year , let alone having a coach or coaches endlessly spouting more ‘footy knowledge’ - like imagine Nate jones. He’d just be prattling on the same [censored] . You’ve gotta get worldly, you’ve gotta have experiences. [censored] football. ‘Get to know each other’.

But no. This would be blasphemy for all stoic football heads and supporters. Well we’re not the players . And I would bet these players need a narrative arc of relationship more than learning more football related stuff that would be delivered in even more cliche and generality by the likes of the coach-desperados Chaplin and N Jones

The best thing today was meeting Ghosty in the cheer squad.

And getting a hug.

By the way l wasn’t sitting in the cheer squad - but near them.

They do a great job.

1 hour ago, Earl Hood said:

We won the I50’s, the hit outs, the clearances and contested ball count! All were Goody’s non negotiable KPIs. They once meant something, but in the modern game they mean very little on their own.

And I can guarantee we also won the clangers, skill errors, turnovers, poor kicks, poor handballs, dropped marks, fumbles, missed tackles, poor decisions and maybe a few other stats that determine winning or losing a game of footy.

Edited 17 hours ago17 hr by Redleg

Drove all the way in, stayed to the end and only just got home and had dinner…..that’s about all you can say about that game

1 hour ago, Stiff Arm said:

Why the hell would any decent player want to be traded to or drafted by Melbourne?

Because if they can kick the ball and not turn it over, they will get a game every week.

2 minutes ago, Gibberish said:


We've lost a year or two of development because we haven't tried players in different positions. We have been so inflexible that it makes it easier for the opposition as we're so predictable.
I don't think we are in the position to get any value out of Petracca or Oliver (no that I want to see them leave) but we needed more experimentation for what has largely been a lost season.


With a new coach things might be better for those two but the main concern is Oliver can he change roles improve his skills maybe but it's going to need a big pre season as for Vinpre-seasonfor your service bupre-season same with Salem and a few others it's going to be interesting what path the new coach takes.

32 minutes ago, Gibberish said:

I was listening to the Port v Carlton game and the discussion was the lack of leadership at Port. They were under pressure and they had no leaders talking up and directing their team.

I do wonder if we are in the same boat where we are lacking on field leadership. Plenty oydof good players, but missing that on field direction.

Or maybe the players have just given up on the season?

It is difficult to find that motivation when finals are definitely out of the pic. Even that ten percent random less figure I pulled out of nowhere is the world of difference.

Some play for ego. Some like Max play because they are natural leaders. Some play because they are competitive beasts ( we could use a few more of these) and a lot at this stage are already thinking about the end of season holiday, weekend fishing/ golf or the dyi jobs around the house.

Judging on today's effort,if say most have already checked out if not six weeks ago.

That said I do feel we have fallen a long way down in such a short period of time. 21 a flag \ two years of double chances and while finals were ruled out a little later last year I still think we went out better.

There are issues all over now. Our fwd line unravelled four years ago and has only shown the odd glimpse with Fritta and JM turning it on now and then.

Our midfield is all over the shop. Rivers looked to be a solution but now isn't. Our touted best MF in the comp has gone the way of our touted best backline in the comp.

Although the backline is still probably our best asset despite May and Lever getting older and losing their touch. Ironically Tmac riddled with injuries and older is probably our second best defender with Turner still holding things down. But he's gone a little quiet.

We really lack depth. Why do we grab onto players other clubs don't want and then never play them....McAdam...billings... schache etc?

Or rather why get them in the first place.

What are we doing to replace Max, God forbid he gets injured? But he's getting on in years for sure.

Why do we keep having to play Sparrow.... because there isn't anyone else.

And he's not alone.

In 21 you had to hurt someone at training to get a gig.

Sure we have some good young talent but where are the new Oliver's Langdon's Traccs and so on.

Yes it was a powerful list but we must move heaven and earth and do whatever it takes to do it again.

Maybe we are looking at three to five years but let's at least start. Sacking Goody was a good sign and start.

To borrow a line from Breaking bad.......no more half measures.

I’m clearly a few brain cells short, just bought a ticket to next weeks loss to Collingwood.

2 hours ago, Stiff Arm said:

The Gunston Show

Genuinely, the Hawthorn's fans' nickname is Norman.

22 minutes ago, deegirl said:

Since the entire effort was cooked I’ll call out three of the small things about today’s performance that drove me (further) insane

How is Bowza, the smallest bloke on the field, one of the few who sticks his tackles?

Players such as Chandler going for the Hollywood 1% play instead of executing the simple. We play like we’re millionaires when we ain’t

THE FUMBLING IS INCESCANT. We are never clean

Came here to say this: our fumbling is constant.

25 minutes ago, deegirl said:

THE FUMBLING IS INCESCANT. We are never clean

Incessant. And yes, it is, Sharp being the worst offender, although Fritter with his fumbled marks ran him a close second.

Normally I avoid this thread post-loss but everything said here is right. It is sadly true. A real [censored] show.

1 hour ago, Earl Hood said:

We won the I50’s, the hit outs, the clearances and contested ball count! All were Goody’s non negotiable KPIs. They once meant something, but in the modern game they mean very little on their own.

Yes, it seems hard to believe we won so much of the footy; however, consider this. Chaplin said that not much will change except for a few minor tweaks that have all been mentioned. We are still essentially playing to Goody's game plan. Just look at the number of times we kicked long to the left pocket. May still kicks out long to the same side where Max is (with 3 hanging off him), and when he does try to pass it short, he turns it over. Unlike last week, we rarely ran and played on preferring to revert to the safe mark, ponder, short kick, then turn it over. I lost count of the number of times a player led and was ignored.

The teams that have caused us the most heartache are the ones that always have someone running past. Kick the ball to position and rarely turn it over. Some of the vision and bullet-like passes inside 50 show just how much we need to improve and change our style. Some Wag said Well, Goodwin is gone, we cannot blame him now, well, he lives on with the type of game we play, which is obsolete . THis is why the board is correct in that we need a new voice and a radical change of game style and assistant coaches.

20 minutes ago, nextskipclaz said:

They’re all football people. Chaplin is no different. And he’s under 40y/o! Unworldly and green, and completely ‘footballed’ in the brains.

These days team science is a lot more about understanding the subtle synergies (or lack thereof) within the group. The relationships, the friendships, the accountability between ‘people’ not just players. There transparency, the understanding of personal and self development, the inclusion of art , philosophy , discussion, challenging the nature of these human beings and young men (who all have variety of callings and proclivities) . It is a for a good coach to draw on these elements. And if it can’t be done by a coach , then the club needs other cultural ambassadors and informants: women, people from artistic backgrounds, from various cultural backgrounds etc. to take them away from footy, for part of the week. And to develop connection with each other. Deepen , broaden connection.

Footy is hard to do for half the year , let alone having a coach or coaches endlessly spouting more ‘footy knowledge’ - like imagine Nate jones. He’d just be prattling on the same [censored] . You’ve gotta get worldly, you’ve gotta have experiences. [censored] football. ‘Get to know each other’.

But no. This would be blasphemy for all stoic football heads and supporters. Well we’re not the players . And I would bet these players need a narrative arc of relationship more than learning more football related stuff that would be delivered in even more cliche and generality by the likes of the coach-desperados Chaplin and N Jones

Ground the lot of them for the entire next season....covid-style.

There is a distinct lack of care for each other, too many play like they do not give a stuff...for each other.

You may be onto something, this seems like a majorly disconnected group.

Drop Kozzie for the last game, he tends to get reported, I can see it happening again...he gave away stupid frees and 50m penalty today, looked frustrated. Let's not derail another start to season, drop him Chappy!

4 minutes ago, pitmaster said:

Incessant. And yes, it is, Sharp being the worst offender, although Fritter with his fumbled marks ran him a close second.

Normally I avoid this thread post-loss but everything said here is right. It is sadly true. A real [censored] show.

Surely Viney is the worst offender? Sitting here watching the likes of Pendles and Sidearse so silky skilled and wondering what the hell is wrong with our senior players. The last few weeks Viney looks like he's never seen a football before. How is this possible?

8 minutes ago, Previously known as LITD. said:

It is difficult to find that motivation when finals are definitely out of the pic. Even that ten percent random less figure I pulled out of nowhere is the world of difference.

Some play for ego. Some like Max play because they are natural leaders. Some play because they are competitive beasts ( we could use a few more of these) and a lot at this stage are already thinking about the end of season holiday, weekend fishing/ golf or the dyi jobs around the house.

Judging on today's effort,if say most have already checked out if not six weeks ago.

That said I do feel we have fallen a long way down in such a short period of time. 21 a flag \ two years of double chances and while finals were ruled out a little later last year I still think we went out better.

There are issues all over now. Our fwd line unravelled four years ago and has only shown the odd glimpse with Fritta and JM turning it on now and then.

Our midfield is all over the shop. Rivers looked to be a solution but now isn't. Our touted best MF in the comp has gone the way of our touted best backline in the comp.

Although the backline is still probably our best asset despite May and Lever getting older and losing their touch. Ironically Tmac riddled with injuries and older is probably our second best defender with Turner still holding things down. But he's gone a little quiet.

We really lack depth. Why do we grab onto players other clubs don't want and then never play them....McAdam...billings... schache etc?

Or rather why get them in the first place.

What are we doing to replace Max, God forbid he gets injured? But he's getting on in years for sure.

Why do we keep having to play Sparrow.... because there isn't anyone else.

And he's not alone.

In 21 you had to hurt someone at training to get a gig.

Sure we have some good young talent but where are the new Oliver's Langdon's Traccs and so on.

Yes it was a powerful list but we must move heaven and earth and do whatever it takes to do it again.

Maybe we are looking at three to five years but let's at least start. Sacking Goody was a good sign and start.

To borrow a line from Breaking bad.......no more half measures.

You say motivation but I would counter with accountability within the playing group, to the club and to their teammates. Our standards have dropped dramatically. I recall a post game interview from Gawn after one of our finals exits saying that they were cooked after maintaining such a high level of defensive effort for so long that they need the extra time off (or something to that effect). I can understand the burn out and not getting the reward for effort, but when I watch them play it almost looks like some of them are silently protesting.

Houston was put off by the reports coming out of Melbourne, so it's no stretch to think that there were other players reluctant to sign on.

5 minutes ago, BigBadBustling said:

Surely Viney is the worst offender? Sitting here watching the likes of Pendles and Sidearse so silky skilled and wondering what the hell is wrong with our senior players. The last few weeks Viney looks like he's never seen a football before. How is this possible?

This is the scary part. History is repeating itself with our 'star' players almost all regressing through their prime years. IMO this was always the root of our problem, not the coaching.

I don't even know how it is possible for our senior guys to go backwards so badly. Normally with experience a player can't help but be a more effective player...the whole idea of experience is that things become easier for you. You've seen all the scenarios and you've developed ways to handle them. How are these guys so bad (Max excluded)? Is it laziness? Hubris? What is wrong at the core of the player culture at this club? Who can fix it?