36 minutes ago, Ghostwriter said:

Please @48 Year Now … read Go Ds post again. You seem to have misunderstood what was being said.

The looks on some of their faces broke my heart, especially the young boys. Yeah, i read pretty good.

Young boy- male child , someone who is not yet an adult.

Broke my heart- to cause someone great sorrow.

38 minutes ago, Ghostwriter said:

Please @48 Year Now … read Go Ds post again. You seem to have misunderstood what was being said.

4 hours ago, Go Ds said:

Hmm, I would've still been scratching my head but assuming you're right about Misson I stand corrected. Obviously not everything a player does at home will be monitored. But I'm surprised with all the ways a player's ability and performance can be measured that much escapes a fitness coach.

With all due respect I think you've still misunderstood my point.

3 hours ago, Deeko2 said:

Great post binman.

I have a little theory on Burgo as well in that he somehow keeps the players up and going for a longer by communicating with them more and reminding them how much more they can really give.

I think I can recall footage of the 21GF where he was with the playing group (maybe on the bench) just telling them that they're all good and heaps more to give.

There is obviously physical restraints to all players fitness levels but there has to be some percentage of mental blocks at times preventing the extra 10-15% which can see teams improve incredibly.

Looking at the Crows this year and I see some resemblance to us in late 21. Players giving there all for longer and longer.

Yep.

A mantra of burgess, one I heard the players repeat so often it was clear they believed it, was they were the fittest, strongest teames, could not be outworked and even if they thought they had hit the wall they could find something extra.

I have a related theory. Key to burgess' philosophy, particularly that psych aspect of it, was his teams train harder than they play and train thru niggles.

Griffith worked under Burgess and I believe has a very similar philosophy.

I wonder if there's a shelf life to that approach.

Senior players would have had that hard core approach drilled into them for the last six years. That's a long time to be under the kosch.

Perhaps a new approach is needed.

Burgess training philosophy was to increase a fitness base first and foremost. Without a fitness base you cannot create a culture of pushing limits further and further to create a mind set under duress therefore a self belief in your body and your fitness. He made this a culture within the playing group so the group pushed each other to go above and beyond each training session. Add to this recovery.

He is very good at getting players to buying in to his fitness philosophy. Without fitness, the psychology is useless. Add in the belief in the style of play, the coaching style, the belief in the everyone’s buy in to all facets of the game. (Sorry for the Goody talk -all facets 🤮)

Injuries, lack of a pre-season will affect a players fitness base, their ability to compete and lastly their ability/belief in themselves. It is why McVee, Kolt, Windsor, Jefferson, Spargo and others have not performed to certain levels. Selection of said players without a required fitness has ruined confidence in players

Players also know their natural physical capabilities. Spargo knows he can’t compete with Max in the ruck. The loss on Sunday was not about fitness. It was about a lack of confidence in each other, lack of leadership, coaching and ultimately, club culture

1 hour ago, binman said:

Yep.

A mantra of burgess, one I heard the players repeat so often it was clear they believed it, was they were the fittest, strongest teames, could not be outworked and even if they thought they had hit the wall they could find something extra.

I have a related theory. Key to burgess' philosophy, particularly that psych aspect of it, was his teams train harder than they play and train thru niggles.

Griffith worked under Burgess and I believe has a very similar philosophy.

I wonder if there's a shelf life to that approach.

Senior players would have had that hard core approach drilled into them for the last six years. That's a long time to be under the kosch.

Perhaps a new approach is needed.

From reading the training reports, or what I have gleaned from this forum Binman, something that did come out of the review was that there has been a change in ‘25 to the train harder than you play or play through injury or pain philosophy of Burgess or maybe Selwyn. Possibly even off the back of Max telling Trac to toughen up and get back out there in that Collingwood game. But possibly also after two years arriving to the finals pretty cooked mentally and physically.

Ironically just like the clubs thinking the game plan had to change, it’s the philosophy that actually got them a premiership and two top 4 finishes.

I agree that for the players it’s shelf life might have come to an end, and there’s the latest premiers game plan to beat, but with this group, it’s what worked and was required to reach the pinnacle.

1 hour ago, binman said:

Yep.

A mantra of burgess, one I heard the players repeat so often it was clear they believed it, was they were the fittest, strongest teames, could not be outworked and even if they thought they had hit the wall they could find something extra.

I have a related theory. Key to burgess' philosophy, particularly that psych aspect of it, was his teams train harder than they play and train thru niggles.

Griffith worked under Burgess and I believe has a very similar philosophy.

I wonder if there's a shelf life to that approach.

Senior players would have had that hard core approach drilled into them for the last six years. That's a long time to be under the kosch.

Perhaps a new approach is needed.

What I have trouble understanding is that someone like Goodwin knows exactly what it's like to coach the fittest team in the AFL as he saw it first hand in 2021. He clearly knows for this season that we're nowhere near the fittest team so why isn't he demanding more from his S&C team?

I can understand how some coaches like Brad Scott might have no idea what it's like to coach the fittest team, but Goodwin does, so why isn't he asking for better results?

6 minutes ago, At the break of Gawn said:

What I have trouble understanding is that someone like Goodwin knows exactly what it's like to coach the fittest team in the AFL as he saw it first hand in 2021. He clearly knows for this season that we're nowhere near the fittest team so why isn't he demanding more from his S&C team?

I can understand how some coaches like Brad Scott might have no idea what it's like to coach the fittest team, but Goodwin does, so why isn't he asking for better results?

What makes you think he isn't?

2 minutes ago, binman said:

What makes you think he isn't?

Because he's always defending our fitness in pressers and uses terms like "we've done the work". "I'm confident in our program" etc unless he's just defending them publicly...

There is a constant theme here from Binman and a couple of others. Governance! We have spent the most part of the last year without a CEO and a stand in President waiting on an ageing replacement who has been on holidays for 6 months. I don't care what the organisation that does not boad well for achieving a well run organisation. Most things will have been on hold for nearly a year. The new CEO is not expected to be on deck till October. Surprise surprise we have had a terrible year. How many decisions will have to wait till November or later. If this is not a big part of our onfield results I would be amazed.

3 hours ago, At the break of Gawn said:

He clearly knows for this season that we're nowhere near the fittest team ...

And you know this how? You have access to the data?

8 hours ago, bing181 said:

It also requires you to play a condensed season beforehand (2020) with fewer matches and shorter quarters. And in particular it requires you to miss the finals in the previous season so you have a longer break and both come back fresher and sort out any lingering injuries or issues. Knocking yourself around for another month in the hardest games of the year (finals) is one of the reasons it's so difficult to back up from premierships or even reaching the GF.

Coming into 2021 we had a dream run in terms of preparation compared to the teams who had played finals the previous year.

Hmm, interesting theory. I'm sure there are plenty in the inner sanctum that knew where we were at for the past 5 or 6 seasons ( or ends thereof)

7 hours ago, binman said:

With all due respect I think you've still misunderstood my point.

Possibly. I certainly don't know exactly what the High Performance team is or what Mission's role was either.

25 minutes ago, Go Ds said:

Hmm, interesting theory. I'm sure there are plenty in the inner sanctum that knew where we were at for the past 5 or 6 seasons ( or ends thereof)

8 hours ago, bing181 said:

It also requires you to play a condensed season beforehand (2020) with fewer matches and shorter quarters. And in particular it requires you to miss the finals in the previous season so you have a longer break and both come back fresher and sort out any lingering injuries or issues. Knocking yourself around for another month in the hardest games of the year (finals) is one of the reasons it's so difficult to back up from premierships or even reaching the GF.

Coming into 2021 we had a dream run in terms of preparation compared to the teams who had played finals the previous year.

...and also a season where having your own facility was not as much of a factor towards the end of season.

8 hours ago, 48 Year Now said:

The looks on some of their faces broke my heart, especially the young boys. Yeah, i read pretty good.

Young boy- male child , someone who is not yet an adult.

Broke my heart- to cause someone great sorrow.

GW said

"It’s not easy. It’s actually bloody hard. The looks on some of their faces broke my heart, especially the young boys. I wish all those who relentlessly bag our players could turn up to Gosch’s on a day like yesterday to see the hurt on their young faces"

I can't see your problem with this. Many people don't like seeing strangers upset, let alone acquaintances ( or whatever GW and the players are).

One can be more excited for someone who just won Tattslotto than another who just won a $20 pub voucher. But for both there's a degree of joy. Similarly one can sympathise with someone whose icecream fell into a puddle and then minutes later have more sympathy for someone hysterical at a car crash site.

Melbourne players feel like **** at the moment. How they learn and move on from here could be argued. But I'm not sure why you're doubting their emotions or applying Whataboutism to this.

12 hours ago, binman said:

Yep.

A mantra of burgess, one I heard the players repeat so often it was clear they believed it, was they were the fittest, strongest teames, could not be outworked and even if they thought they had hit the wall they could find something extra.

I have a related theory. Key to burgess' philosophy, particularly that psych aspect of it, was his teams train harder than they play and train thru niggles.

Griffith worked under Burgess and I believe has a very similar philosophy.

I wonder if there's a shelf life to that approach.

Senior players would have had that hard core approach drilled into them for the last six years. That's a long time to be under the kosch.

Perhaps a new approach is needed.

I often wondered what the collective noun would be for a group of fitness professionals. Now I know. It's a mantra of burges.

Edited July 30Jul 30 by La Dee-vina Comedia
typo

8 hours ago, bing181 said:

And you know this how? You have access to the data?

Yep, worst performing last qtr team by far.

18 hours ago, binman said:

Absolutely, i didn't mean to imply otherwise (though i was actually referring to the High-Performance team not coaches, though they of course have a role in the fitness space too).

I'm 100% not suggesting players are deliberately cutting corners or being uncooperative. What i am suggesting is that perhaps the entire playing list is not 100% dialled in that space and some might be thinking they are giving their all but in reality are not.

That was certainly the feedback from some players when Burgess first arrived - they thought Misson had them dialled up but soon realised they still had levels they could get to.

I'm to elite fitness to what the MFC is to good governance, but from what I've gleaned over the years the gap between optimal, super elite fitness and elite fitness can be very small and it's in those margins that all the difference is made.

That's true for a single elite athlete so one assumes that multiplied across 44 athletes the effect can be significant.

I could quote Burgess on the issue if I could find it again.... something to this end: People generally do not know their limits.

16 hours ago, binman said:

Yep.

A mantra of burgess, one I heard the players repeat so often it was clear they believed it, was they were the fittest, strongest teames, could not be outworked and even if they thought they had hit the wall they could find something extra.

I have a related theory. Key to burgess' philosophy, particularly that psych aspect of it, was his teams train harder than they play and train thru niggles.

Griffith worked under Burgess and I believe has a very similar philosophy.

I wonder if there's a shelf life to that approach.

Senior players would have had that hard core approach drilled into them for the last six years. That's a long time to be under the kosch.

Perhaps a new approach is needed.

Question: is there any correlation in the fact that we have maybe round a third of our list that is young & do not have AFL hardened bodies. We all know players need a few preseasons to build their bodies for the rigours of the game. Consequently we maybe don’t look as fit as other teams. Our senior players probably won’t get any fitter /faster (Max is the outlier) & we lack in the middle tier type of player. Also thank you for your positivity..I’m O/S & so missed game …looked a couple of times at D/L & retreated very quickly. Caveat: to all the negative Nellie’s ..I am asking a question…not making a statement of fact.

On 30/07/2025 at 12:05, Ghostwriter said:

Thank you, DZ. Of all days, yesterday was one where I couldn’t NOT turn up.

It’s not easy. It’s actually bloody hard. The looks on some of their faces broke my heart, especially the young boys. I wish all those who relentlessly bag our players could turn up to Gosch’s on a day like yesterday to see the hurt on their young faces.

Troy Chaplin and Chin were walking together and Troy said to me “I didn’t think you’d be here today.” Chin said “I did” and smiled. And that’s why I’ll always turn up.

you really are amazing my little sheet rack