The Demonland Podcast will air LIVE on Tuesday, 22nd July @ 8:00pm. Join Binman & I as we dissect the Dees disappointing loss to Carlton at the MCG.

Your questions and comments are a huge part of our podcast so please post anything you want to ask or say below and we'll give you a shout out on the show.

Listen LIVE: https://demonland.com/

Hi Gents

A game of 2 halves....again. People won't agree, but I believe this shows we are on the right track, we show what we can do. but that first half was diabolical.

I have three major issues that have bugged me all year (besides foot skills) and wonder if the panel have noticed them as well?

1 - Forward handballs that are so loopy they put the receiver under immediate pressure or turn it over directly to opposition.

2 - Corralling instead of tackling, teams this year have gone hard at the player and trying to knock the ball out as they do, putting on hard pressure and forcing a quick decision from the ball carrier. we seem to sit back and try corral often to the wrong foot (which at this level is unforgivable) and allows the opposition territory.

3 - Our tackling in general, we do not stick important tackles and often barely lay them or get broken easily, needs to be addressed.

I think Thulstrup, Windsor, Lindsey, Sharp now need to go back to VFL for a big chunk or possibly the rest of the year for form and also manage some workloads of the young guys. Give Laurie, Sestan, Mentha a look now. Persist with Jefferson, we have nothing to lose there, he took a couple of great grabs but overall let himself down, but i think dropping him now would do more harm than good.

Also, anyone that thinks Xerri was 100% suspendable and May isn't, has red & Blue googles on! Whilst May couldn't do too much different, what he did was the one thing he couldn't do, was going to be second to the ball even if he was making a play at the ball. made contact to the head, id say that's 3 weeks as well, or 0 with the AFL system which is crazy. Petty into defence now please!

Dees fans, stick it out! That first half was unwatchable, but the second half was good! And if Oliver got that holding the ball like it should have been, well who knows.

🤔🤔 Over ??? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Never got bloody going !!!

How do you fix a club that has lost belief in itself?

‘21 we could run through walls, walk on water, win anywhere anytime. Fast forward to ‘25 and we can’t land any punches.

We have the ingredients to take it up to the top teams but we, for some reason, bring a different mindset for the bottom teams.

Is it off-field instability in key posts (CEO/president)? High performance team? Head coach? Line coaches? On-field leaders? Bottom six on game day?

In your humble opinions, how will we get back to the best version of ourselves?

24 minutes ago, Unqualified opinion said:

How do you fix a club that has lost belief in itself?

‘21 we could run through walls, walk on water, win anywhere anytime. Fast forward to ‘25 and we can’t land any punches.

We have the ingredients to take it up to the top teams but we, for some reason, bring a different mindset for the bottom teams.

Is it off-field instability in key posts (CEO/president)? High performance team? Head coach? Line coaches? On-field leaders? Bottom six on game day?

In your humble opinions, how will we get back to the best version of ourselves?

Answer : See other thread 😉

My only comment is that I'm so sorry Andy and share your pain.

Following on from your discussion about set shots for goal, why don't we us Melksham as our kicking coach?

He is the best kick in the team and also had experience under pressure of kicking for Goal

He should just coach set shots

With May destined to be suspended for the rest of the season, would you trial Petty at full back or have Tommy Mac fill that role? Tommy has been accomplished all season, delivers experience and leadership, and is one of the best field kicks in the team. AFL success requires leadership in every line - forwards, mids, defence. With May out and Lever needing to get his body right, we have a dilemma. But TMac is 32 and Petty is just about to hit his prime as a key position player.

Binman and Andy, what would you do?

Love the club.

No love for Simon.

Still believe in JVR (what a great kick at goal he is).

Kozzy is a superstar.

2021 bye, new MFC needs to come in pronto.

Having seen such a dominant few weeks from Kozzie with him attending about 90% centre bounces I can't help wondering how much his absence in the first three weeks queered, as in compromised our season.

We started with a narrow loss to the Giants that probably would have been a win with Kozzie playing even half as well as this week. If that 0-5 start never happened players' confidence and trust in one another would have been so much stronger and a new game style easier to implement and perfect.

Can the panel please discuss?

We must talk about May's big hit on Carlton forward Francis Evans.

We don't want to see results like what happened to Evans, especially if we are serious about eliminating concussion - and we must.

But what gets up my goat is the hypocrisy. Dees players all too often are on the receiving end of severe penalties when the AFL wants make a statement. Remember the ridiculous 4-match suspension on Nibbler for a tackle that was seen every weekend until that point? Remember Kossy was too heavily sanctioned because he had the audacity to be aggressive against a Pies' star who over-egged the incident?

The hypocrisy comes back to the Maynard 2023 incident where our beloved Angus Brayshaw's life was changed forever and was never to play footy again.

May and Maynard as very similar - both fiercely attack the ball.

Yet with Maynard, the AFL made a rule change at the end of he season and he played the next game!

May will not be given the same treatment - and frankly he shouldn't if we are serious about protecting the head.

One pays the price, the other doesn't.

The AFL will pay the price when the massive lawsuit comes.

What I find most amazing is the extraordinary drop in performance in this side . Even in 2022 and 2023 we were a competitive , final playing side - capable of winning against all sides and of having long consecutive winning runs.Goody would like to have us believe that the sheer disastrous team performances over the last two seasons ( close to a cellar dweller) is all part of some well conceived plan- a change of game style etc I don’t buy it any more ( if I ever did) . There is absolutely nothing or little to suggest this team is improving or will improve. This is notwithstanding some individual player performances such as Kossie ‘ s this Season. That’s not pessimism, rather just a rational assessment of our ongoing performances.Goody never , ever accepts any responsibility for the rapid decline of this once Premiership team . Nor do most Senior players. I suspect many of them including Goody will just be happy to be remembered as the team that broke the Premiership drought . They’ve climbed their mountain and are all on a good wicket. Unfortunately since the 1950s this Club has no tradition or culture of ongoing success.

Edited July 20Jul 20 by FabDemon

1 hour ago, pitmaster said:

Having seen such a dominant few weeks from Kozzie with him attending about 90% centre bounces I can't help wondering how much his absence in the first three weeks queered, as in compromised our season.

We started with a narrow loss to the Giants that probably would have been a win with Kozzie playing even half as well as this week. If that 0-5 start never happened players' confidence and trust in one another would have been so much stronger and a new game style easier to implement and perfect.

Can the panel please discuss?

Let's not fool ourselves, we lost against NORTH in that stretch of 5 games.

36 minutes ago, Dee in a Kilt said:

We must talk about May's big hit on Carlton forward Francis Evans.

We don't want to see results like what happened to Evans, especially if we are serious about eliminating concussion - and we must.

But what gets up my goat is the hypocrisy. Dees players all too often are on the receiving end of severe penalties when the AFL wants make a statement. Remember the ridiculous 4-match suspension on Nibbler for a tackle that was seen every weekend until that point? Remember Kossy was too heavily sanctioned because he had the audacity to be aggressive against a Pies' star who over-egged the incident?

The hypocrisy comes back to the Maynard 2023 incident where our beloved Angus Brayshaw's life was changed forever and was never to play footy again.

May and Maynard as very similar - both fiercely attack the ball.

Yet with Maynard, the AFL made a rule change at the end of he season and he played the next game!

May will not be given the same treatment - and frankly he shouldn't if we are serious about protecting the head.

One pays the price, the other doesn't.

The AFL will pay the price when the massive lawsuit comes.

I so much hope that a class action against the AFL cronies is led by our dearly missed Gussy Brayshaw.

I can imagine there's another pile-on against Goody following the Carlton loss.

But winning a flag is a whole-of-club thing - Strong Board, CEO, management, player leaders all united in a strong culture, all rowing the boat in the same direction.

Not many get this right.

The last 2 years there's been public in-fighting causing significant distraction to the Board and CEO - which certainly distracts the coach.

There is no coincidence this in-fighting is reflected in the Dees performances.

Thankfully, all those who needed to leave have left and we appear to have peace on earth at the MFC again.

Given we still don't have either President Steven Smith or CEO Paul Guerra in place, Goody has been riding a two-legged horse.

I believe Smith and Guarra don't start until September. When they start, their professionalism will compel them to take stock of where we are at and ensure governance is strong. Then they start the process to get club leadership aligned to a strong culture with everyone rowing in the same direction.

Andy, I can imagine you want this question left to post season, but the Goody pile-on is not healthy.

What perspective do you two bring at this point?

Edited July 20Jul 20 by Dee in a Kilt
typos

48 minutes ago, FabDemon said:

What I find most amazing is the extraordinary drop in performance in this side . Even in 2022 and 2023 we were a competitive , final playing side - capable of winning against all sides and of having long consecutive winning runs.Goody would like to have us believe that the sheer disastrous team performances over the last two seasons ( close to a cellar dweller) is all part of some well conceived plan- a change of game style etc I don’t buy it any more ( if I ever did) . There is absolutely nothing or little to suggest this team is improving or will improve. This is notwithstanding some individual player performances such as Kossie ‘ s this Season. That’s not pessimism, rather just a rational assessment of our ongoing performances.Goody never , ever accepts any responsibility for the rapid decline of this once Premiership team . Nor do most Senior players. I suspect many of them including Goody will just be happy to be remembered as the team that broke the Premiership drought . They’ve climbed their mountain and are all on a good wicket. Unfortunately since the 1950s this Club has no tradition or culture of ongoing success.

It sounds like a lot of mind-reading there. Have you heard Goody actually say the above or seen incredibly obvious behaviour of premiership players, say, now arriving late/leaving early from training regularly?

Yes, there's a drop-off. Players are older or have left, too many recruits either haven't made it or are a work in progress and we've had injuries. We arguably had the best midfield circa 2021. But Oliver had challenges and lost a whole pre-season and Petracca was incapacitated for months a year ago. None of this is a 'get out jail free card' but it probably explains a lot.

It's so easy to get stuck in a moment. But who knows what happens in the next year or two. Some good recruits, more natural improvement from the younger players and perhaps revivals from senior players with injury-free passages or possibly attitude improvements, some new coaches, stability in the administration etc etc could make us improve markedly. No guarantees but we do have plenty of good to great players and ****, imagine how much better we'd be if both Trac and Clarry fully get back to near Brownlow-medallist level again.

3 minutes ago, Go Ds said:

It sounds like a lot of mind-reading there. Have you heard Goody actually say the above or seen incredibly obvious behaviour of premiership players, say, now arriving late/leaving early from training regularly?

Yes, there's a drop-off. Players are older or have left, too many recruits either haven't made it or are a work in progress and we've had injuries. We arguably had the best midfield circa 2021. But Oliver had challenges and lost a whole pre-season and Petracca was incapacitated for months a year ago. None of this is a 'get out jail free card' but it probably explains a lot.

It's so easy to get stuck in a moment. But who knows what happens in the next year or two. Some good recruits, more natural improvement from the younger players and perhaps revivals from senior players with injury-free passages or possibly attitude improvements, some new coaches, stability in the administration etc etc could make us improve markedly. No guarantees but we do have plenty of good to great players and ****, imagine how much better we'd be if both Trac and Clarry fully get back to near Brownlow-medallist level again.

Well of course they are not going to say it. However, it is very easy for any Coach or player simply dismiss poor performances by saying that they’ve got things under control and things are going to get better. It is reasonable to assess players and Coaches on past and ongoing performances and nearly two Seasons is a significant period of time. We do have some good recruits but some of them have shown little growth or probably have gone backwards eg JVR . It’s a not a one or occasional game thing, there has been a very real, sustained decline over the last two Seasons - a drop from Premiership contenders to where we are satisfied beating cellar dwellers . The fact is we’ve won about 7 out of the last 23 games - that is the reality of our situation. Btw I’ve been a paid up Member for thirty years , through thick and thin - so this has nothing to do with loyalty to the Club.

Edited July 20Jul 20 by FabDemon

2 hours ago, FabDemon said:

Well of course they are not going to say it. However, it is very easy for any Coach or player simply dismiss poor performances by saying that they’ve got things under control and things are going to get better. It is reasonable to assess players and Coaches on past and ongoing performances and nearly two Seasons is a significant period of time. We do have some good recruits but some of them have shown little growth or probably have gone backwards eg JVR . It’s a not a one or occasional game thing, there has been a very real, sustained decline over the last two Seasons - a drop from Premiership contenders to where we are satisfied beating cellar dwellers . The fact is we’ve won about 7 out of the last 23 games - that is the reality of our situation. Btw I’ve been a paid up Member for thirty years , through thick and thin - so this has nothing to do with loyalty to the Club.

As easy as it is speculate on a lot of this stuff we really don't know though. There differently needs to be change. I expect movement , probably at least one dismissal, among the coaching staff, obviously some delistings and quite realistically some surprise ones or trades.

Anyway I hope all these judgements are based on what is or probably is rather than based on supposition from even the loyalest supporter (who nonetheless would be still in the dark .... AND I am grateful of all our loyal fans)

How did you see Jefferson’s game. He did some good things and some bad things.

He works so hard to get in position and win the ball, then gives it away so easily with bad disposals.

Usually I can say yay or nay, but I can’t tell if he should be dropped or persisted with.

At the ground, and i loved Frittas game. Really went hard, and executed the high half forward connection role with real accuracy.

Kossie is special.

Umpiring was disgusting. Not just bad… That run down tackle made my head explode!

Why can’t we get it together and commit to play more than 10 minutes at a stretch?

Why was our defence so poor, and yet we had a good back 6?

Why can’t max get a free for holding in a marking contest - almost ever??

When are we going to see some of the new kids and when will those who haven’t put in as they should be invited to play for Casey?

When will the pressure come on Goodwin? He's been trending downward for a long time now and seems incapable of arresting the decline. Had a great run for about 5 or 6 years and is forever etched in MFC history as a legend of the club but his time is up.

Along with Craig Macrae he is the only premiership coach not to play in at least one other Grand Final since 1980 and Macrae looks like he will achieve that this year. Yes we have deficiencies in the list but a coach coaches to minimise those deficiencies and create an opportunity to win. We have a healthy list and this is the best we've got? 7-17 over the last 24 games. If we don't make change now/this offseason, 2026 will be another wasted year as I cannot imagine a world where he is offered a new contract. As the saying goes more is lost by indecision than wrong decision.

That was a hard watch. One huge difference over the last year has been the gulf between our best and worst performances. Over 2021-23 we generally were consistent in our performance. On Saturday night we looked gassed very early and could never quite arrest the momentum for long enough to put a gap on Carlton. Is that a combination of the youth in the side and the building of the new game plan? Maybe, but it’s so frustrating as I was confident heading in to this game, just as I was confident before the Saints and Port games, teams around us that I felt we had the edge over. In these 3 games we played poorly but ultimately had our chances to win. This game was similar, with misses to Roo, Fritta and Jeffo late which if we were polished enough would have made the difference. Geez even the late Holding the ball free not paid to Clarry could have changed the games result. Great teams take their chances when the pressure is on, saying that at the moment we are not a great team. I’m hopelessly optimistic for a win the next 2 weeks and will be there again to support and urge others to do the same. It’s a game of moments and we are unfortunately failing a lot of those moments but I feel we can make it click next year. The call for Goodys head is warranted but I don’t see who we replace him with or how that doesn’t send us further into the doldrums for the next year or two. A crystal ball would be nice and all decisions are easy in hindsight but I don’t think the club is flush with enough cash to take the $1 million plus financial hit to sack him now. I don’t think the standards are getting driven hard enough at training and there’s some acceptance of mediocrity, otherwise surely players skills would be improving. 5 games left of 2025, we need to see who we have for next season. Keep Jeffo in although wow he had some poor moments, Roo and Fritta looks more enthused and showed good signs. Love Kolts energy and I say keep him in, but he’s gotta show something better. Who comes in for May as he’ll be out this week with Concussion whether he gets rubbed out or not. Maybe Howes? Saints has always been a bogey team for us so would love a win over them and we have to beat these teams close to us.

look forward to another great Pod guys. Love all you do

15 hours ago, Rossmillan said:

How did you see Jefferson’s game. He did some good things and some bad things.

He works so hard to get in position and win the ball, then gives it away so easily with bad disposals.

Usually I can say yay or nay, but I can’t tell if he should be dropped or persisted with.

It was an agonizing watch at times. You are 100% right he did so much good work then couldn’t complete the play. Whether that was take the easy chest mark, kick the goal. The mark he did take on the lead he was close to dropping. I think we had to persist with Jeffo, Roo and Fritta up forward but need the to get the ball into the good users entering onto 50. It was funny to see as there was a few times Kozzie was looking to crumb front and Centre but no one flew for the mark and was intercepted. Not sure how that happens.

On 20/07/2025 at 08:06, Travy14 said:

1 - Forward handballs that are so loopy they put the receiver under immediate pressure or turn it over directly to opposition.

The Fu$@&ing loopy handballs. Drove me insane.

I was there watching it behind the glass in the AFL members opposite end to my normal view.

I think playing Tholstrup & Windsor in the seniors at the moment is detrimental to the team and their individual development.

Both of them are lost out there, if you’re going to back in players. Why not pick the in form Casey Demon listed players. Laurie, Culley, Kentfield or Mentha?

Goodwin will stick to his favourites though, unless May gets suspended it’ll be one or two changes and the usual Spargo in for an underwhelming VFL performance.

Tholstrup is giving us nothing, why not bring in some pace? Have a look at Mentha or Brown?