Coach Voss

[grazman 7,451]

From the article:

Garry Lyon: Doesn't even want to coach. People talk about Voss having no experience, what exactly has Gary done in the form of coaching?

Chris Connolly: Everyone will become very familiar with me saying this... DON'T GO THERE!

Connolly is in the same boat as Daniher. Great person, but soft. His list at Fremantle is superior to ours, and yet they under perform every year and they have horrible discipline issues. Sounds familiar?

Michael Voss: A risk that, if it comes off, will come off in a huge way.

Mark Harvey: Been searching for that head job for a long time, but has been left out to dry. You have to wonder why.

Gary O'Donnell: Not bad. Lots of experience, would like to know more about him.

Chris Bond: Not keen, but maybe as an assistant.

Guy McKenna: Heard conflicting reports about him, and again, he's been knocked back several times and that has to be a worry.

Overall a very uninspiring list.

Voss excites me greatly, everyone else are average or completely horrible.

I think My list is better.:

Voss, Rhen, Jonas, Ratten and Kelly O'Donnell.

I agree on Connolly, McKenna has some very poor references... Lyon coached the international rules side a couple of times, but has made it clear his future is in the media and Gary O'Donnell is after a football department manager's position.... sloppy journalism IMO.... trotting out familiar names.

[Gorgoroth 13,017]

Yeah i wasn't overly inspired with that list either.

[Jaded No More 68,974]

I think My list is better.:

Voss, Rhen, Jonas, Ratten and Kelly O'Donnell.

I agree on Connolly, McKenna has some very poor references... Lyon coached the international rules side a couple of times, but has made it clear his future is in the media and Gary O'Donnell is after a football department manager's position.... sloppy journalism IMO.... trotting out familiar names.

Of course your list is better, you don't write for sportal.com.au

What can you tell us about Rhen and Jonas?

I don't know anything about them, and I'd like to find out.

I'm worried by all the smoke surrounding Connolly. Usually where there is smoke, there is fire.

Listening to his press conference today, he made it clear that he is a 'life member of the MFC'. Good on you Chris, you were a good player for this club and it's all peaches and butterflies, but we want a premiership and the only thing you've shown so far is your inability to get Freo to perform consistently.

I'm going to have nightmares about this until a new coach is signed up.

[Guest bjs]

It seems i am in the minority when it comes to Voss.He seems a touch to footy cliched to me.I also cannot forget the way Brisbane struggled when his influence was limited to off the ground.

He was a fantastic leader by example on the field.I dont believe this is transferrable as you cant do this in the box.i think there is a touch of if i can do it why cant you about him.Never a good assett as a coach.

I can hear his brain ticking,working on channel ten.Sometimes he seems to be trying to create problems that arent there in order to prove his superiority in solving them.we have already been through a decade with a coach whos arrogance could not justify him changin his gameplan.Every coach gets out coached it is admitting they are wrong and changing their plans that make them successful.Voss would die before he admitted he was wrong,part of his brilliance as a player and potential downfall as a coach.

[grazman 7,451]

Of course your list is better, you don't write for sportal.com.au

What can you tell us about Rhen and Jonas?

I don't know anything about them, and I'd like to find out.

I'm worried by all the smoke surrounding Connolly. Usually where there is smoke, there is fire.

Listening to his press conference today, he made it clear that he is a 'life member of the MFC'. Good on you Chris, you were a good player for this club and it's all peaches and butterflies, but we want a premiership and the only thing you've shown so far is your inability to get Freo to perform consistently.

I'm going to have nightmares about this until a new coach is signed up.

Not much more than what is in the season preview guide, but both have their supporters... both have experienced premiership success Rehn as a player, Jonas as a coach and both have done apprenticeships.

Peter Jonas: Assistant Coach St Kilda 2001, Sydney, 03-06, Adelaide 07, Senior Coach at Central Districts 98-00 (including their first ever premiership in 2000) Head Development coach for SANFL in 2002.

Shaun Rehn: Assistant Coach Brisbane Lions 06-07, Senior Coach at West Adelaide 03-05 (including a GF appearance in his first year)

[Alan Smithee 0]

Interesting comments. Voss is a former triple Premiership Captain and leader of arguably one of the most successful clubs in the modern era. He has played and assisted under arguably one of the most successful coaches of the modern game. His professionalsim is second to none and has a reputation of pulling players into line. Eg; Pike and O'Bree (the latter unsurprisingly leaving the club soon after another altercation).

He ticks the boxes for leadership, nous and pedigree. He brings with him a winning culture. Obviously the gamble for the Mfc lay with his lack of coaching experience. To what extent is this a concern, we don't know. Remember, ND was only an assistant when Joseph hired him. If he can convince the selection committe that this is nothing but a short term drawback, I would say he has to be a front runner. And IMO, a gamble worth taking.

[Jonesy is the next captain 0]

Why cant we have Gary Lyon????????????????

[grazman 7,451]

Interesting comments. Voss is a former triple Premiership Captain and leader of arguably one of the most successful clubs in the modern era. He has played and assisted under arguably one of the most successful coaches of the modern game. His professionalsim is second to none and has a reputation of pulling players into line. Eg; Pike and O'Bree (the latter unsurprisingly leaving the club soon after another altercation).

He ticks the boxes for leadership, nous and pedigree. He brings with him a winning culture. Obviously the gamble for the Mfc lay with his lack of coaching experience. To what extent is this a concern, we don't know. Remember, ND was only an assistant when Joseph hired him. If he can convince the selection committe that this is nothing but a short term drawback, I would say he has to be a front runner. And IMO, a gamble worth taking.

The following list isn't exhaustive, but it would do as a start for looking at the various criteria (note that whilst some rank coaching experience as a determining factor, it is only a factor, not the factor)

1. Communication. - needs to communicate his ideas clearly, unambiguously and succinctly

2. Decision Making - needs to react and respond to situations quickly by making confident decisions.

3. Motivation - needs to inspire the troops to go over the top one last time

4. Game Plan - must be able to develop a game plan around the strengths of a list.

5. Integrity - must be able to be trusted by those above and below (includes being fair and broad minded)

6. Professional - must engender this through example and demand

7. Self Improvement - must be constantly seeking to refine craft in themselves and others

8. Trust - must empower those given responsibilities

9. Knowledge - must know the game and the role.

[Gorgoroth 13,017]

Well if you had heard Lyon talk he has said he does not want to coach!

[Kit Walker 225]

The following list isn't exhaustive, but it would do as a start for looking at the various criteria (note that whilst some rank coaching experience as a determining factor, it is only a factor, not the factor)

1. Communication. - needs to communicate his ideas clearly, unambiguously and succinctly

2. Decision Making - needs to react and respond to situations quickly by making confident decisions.

3. Motivation - needs to inspire the troops to go over the top one last time

4. Game Plan - must be able to develop a game plan around the strengths of a list.

5. Integrity - must be able to be trusted by those above and below (includes being fair and broad minded)

6. Professional - must engender this through example and demand

7. Self Improvement - must be constantly seeking to refine craft in themselves and others

8. Trust - must empower those given responsibilities

9. Knowledge - must know the game and the role.

Probably the best explanation of what it means to "tick the boxes" for a coach that I've seen.

With regard to Voss, the only queries would be points 4 and 9. All the rest have been shown in his on-field performance for Brisbane and to a lesser extend having seen him on Channel 10 and in the print media.

The game plan issue is one I can't answer but the board shouldn't have too much difficulty finding that out in the interview process.

The issue of knowledge is probably the only one that may hold him back. He clearly knows the game backwards, but the question is whether he knows the role well enough.

A new coach is always a risk but Voss is the equivalent of a first round draft pick IMO. No guarantees but a bloody good chance of making it.

[mick2007 0]

Voss would be a great coach for Melbourne, Has great leadership skills and has the playing credentials to back it up. A person of this calibre knows how to play the modern football game and knows how to win. He is well respected, and would bring a bit of toughness and grit the team has always lacked. Bringing Lynch with him too would be good for a Forward Coach. Melbournes lack of goalkicking has let them down this year. If Bruce, Yze, Green dont kick a few goals we seem to lose and these fellas aren't being pushed forward enough to where they are dangerous. Going back to an older generation coach would be the worst thing for the club, we need a modern day coach with a modern day football brain. We need a coach that means business. Neale done great things for the club but seemed a bit to soft to me and it has showed on the football field. If things aren't going right for the team they seem to lack the ability to dig down deep and make something happen. A new coach, A new captain in Judd would inspire his fellow team mates how to play football with such intensity.

[Old Man Rivers 326]

Voss would be a great coach for Melbourne, Has great leadership skills and has the playing credentials to back it up. A person of this calibre knows how to play the modern football game and knows how to win. He is well respected, and would bring a bit of toughness and grit the team has always lacked. Bringing Lynch with him too would be good for a Forward Coach. Melbournes lack of goalkicking has let them down this year. If Bruce, Yze, Green dont kick a few goals we seem to lose and these fellas aren't being pushed forward enough to where they are dangerous. Going back to an older generation coach would be the worst thing for the club, we need a modern day coach with a modern day football brain. We need a coach that means business. Neale done great things for the club but seemed a bit to soft to me and it has showed on the football field. If things aren't going right for the team they seem to lack the ability to dig down deep and make something happen. A new coach, A new captain in Judd would inspire his fellow team mates how to play football with such intensity.

Yep - Lets roll the dice & get Vossy while we hold the upper hand.

What a modern day footy brain this champ will bring.

Many great names will follow, we have a window to get this show on the road, Lets Do It!

[biggestred 5,138]

Grant Thomas ? *

* I'm kidding !

good, lanky moron!

ps same old essendon, always cheating

[Sir Why You Little 37,127]

Voss is a captain of a triple premiership side. That experience is invaluable. No text book or Power point presentation can beat that. GET VOSS or at least make sure he is seriously considered before going elsewhere

[Sir Why You Little 37,127]

[The issue of knowledge is probably the only one that may hold him back. He clearly knows the game backwards, but the question is whether he knows the role well enough.

What are you talking about???? As the Captain of a triple Premiership Team His Knowledge is more than anyone around melbourne for many years. Enough said. Voss knows discipline and self control to climb the september mountain back to back to back-Get Him. Take the chance and this club may become the Force it once was-Feared by all

[Jonesy is the next captain 0]

He hasnt even been out the game a year hes too young

[Sir Why You Little 37,127]

He hasnt even been out the game a year hes too young

By still being part of the "Modern Game" Voss is perfect to coach. G Lyon has stated he doesn't want too coach-get over it.

Take a Risk be bold, Get Voss

[ol' Grimey Knackers 0]

Apologies if this has already been done to death on here. I posted this on 'Ology and it got a bit of a response so I thought it would be interesting to see what 'Landers think. An interesting few months ahead for the Club to say the least!

The debate around the pro-Voss versus Anti-Voss camps seems to be entirely focused on the fact he hasn’t done any time as an assistant. But to my mind it can’t be that simple so I thought I’d try and put forward why I reckon we should appoint Voss or regret it in the years ahead.

During the time I’ve been watching AFL one team stands out above all others as the best I’ve ever seen. I reckon there’s daylight between the Lions team that won three flags in a row and the second best. The captain of that team is the best captain I’ve seen in my time. Not the best player I’ve seen but the best captain.

Does any of this guarantee Voss will succeed? Of course not. But what counts to my mind is the way he went about his captaincy. He set the standard. There wasn’t any difference between his words and his actions. He expected everyone to live up to the standard he set. In short, Voss is the best leader of men that I have ever seen on a football field. Not a bad start in my mind.

Lack of experience.

This is his obvious weakness when others are considered against him for the job. But what does it really amount to? Ever since Watson failed at the Aints it has become an unwritten law in the AFL world that anyone who hasn’t done time as an assistant can’t possibly succeed.

Whilst I don’t know what really happened with Watson, if the reports are true that the players set out to undermine him, what chance did he have? How would time as an assistant have helped him? If the reports are true, Watson was doomed no matter what.

If, on the other hand, the reports are inaccurate why should the Watson precedent preclude Voss from being appointed? My memory of Watson is a little hazy (particularly in his early years) but whilst he was a champion player he didn’t strike me as a great or natural leader of men. So why should Watson’s failures portend the failure of Voss?

I just think it’s too simplistic to say Watson failed therefore all that follow without time as an assistant will fail.

Experience.

We’ve been down that path with the last two coaching appointments. It doesn’t guarantee success.

For every poster that says we shouldn’t appoint Voss because of his lack of experience I say Daniher, Balme, Connolly, etc, etc, etc …

Voss.

Off the cuff, a true champion of the game retires probably once every three or four years or so(?). Recently we’ve had Carey and Voss and we’ll have Hird, Buckley and Riccuito in the next few.

There’s no doubt that a champion player doesn’t equal a champion coach. Watson is a good example although that’s too hard on him if he was undermined.

Voss is the only one of the recently, or soon to be, retired champions of the game that I want to take a chance on.

There are no guarantees with this stuff. Anyone who thinks there is a formula or set path to success is kidding themselves. We can try and build the Titanic from the ground up but ultimately the human behind the wheel has to navigate the icebergs.

If the Voss experiment fails I believe that, by appointing him, the Club will have at least achieved the following:

1) changed it’s culture of backslapping after a win or two;

2) eradicated an unaccountable front-running style of football;

3) regained the on filed respect of other 15 clubs.

At best we’ll win a flag. Even the worst case scenario seems to be upside to me.

Of the other candidates mentioned so far (McKenna, Longmire, Connolly, O’Donnell etc …) what suggests to people that they are capable of leading us to a flag or at least setting us up to do so? Because they’ve done time as assistants or as a senior coach? Simple as that? I don’t buy it. If it was that easy we wouldn’t have Clubs that have gone 20 years plus without a flag. Besides, the only ones we can really make a judgement about from a distance are those who held a senior position and none of them inspire me.

So let’s forget Watson. His failures don’t set a precedent forever.

Michael Voss is the best on field leader I have ever seen. I believe that he has the ability, desire and passion to translate his on field success into the box. He is the only retired player of the last 30 years that I want to take a chance on.

Sign him up and let him get on with it.

[beelzebub 23,383]

It's no coincidence that Voss played under another player ( captain ) who turned coach with no 'experience" and it hasnt hurt any other the clubs he 's been associated with !! I am happy enough to think thet Michael has a good grasp and understanding of what it takes to win flags and how you go about it.

I have now decided in light of a few things that Im no longer so concerned with his lack of runs on the board, I'd seriously consider him. Ill also like to see who else applies.

[Grooski 0]

You must remember - we are in no position to make a gamble on untested coaches. We cannot afford anything else but moving the club forward on and off the field. I do not believe Voss is the best coach available to us and we, in fact, require the best available.

An expensive exercise if in 2 years we have to pay an extra 500k to release a coach early, let alone the reason for doing so costing us for two bad years.

Think guys - We need a coach not a player mentor.

[beelzebub 23,383]

tested...untested.. ..

I think everyone needs a realkty pill about all this. There is no guarantee that either will deliver, or not deliver a flag.

Has Pagan's experience given the Blues a flag...and who would argue he doesnt know what he's on about ?

As a Maggie mate of mine pointed out last night.. Malthouse hasnt delivered at Collingwood either ...has he ?

For me th ecoach only really brings two aspects to a game.. The actual game plan/tactics and reactionay and rejigging etc. and... the massaging of egos. All other aspects to a team are really done by other staff in conjunction with the coach...

You nearly have it right Grooski !! :-))

put simply

WE REALLY ARE IN NO POSITION !!

that alone sums it up !! :-)

[Bay Riffin 1,480]

1) changed it’s culture of backslapping after a win or two;

2) eradicated an unaccountable front-running style of football;

3) regained the on filed respect of other 15 clubs.

good point - I hear where you are coming from Knackers.

I don't know why people are so risk averse like we are in some 'premiership window' or something. We need someone to really shake the place up and make the team far more accountable. That has to be the number one priority and I am sick of seeing us go down too easily. I was not gutted by our last quarter against the bombers but the fact we were not in control and aggressive enough in the first quarter.

I see North with an ordinary list but wish we playedd with half their honesty, vigour and pride. At present we are a joke, even in our 'up' years we always appear to crumble too easily.

I think this club wil take an extraordinary individual or team of people to reverse this backslapping, front running style we have.

Voss, despite not coaching has supreme confidence in himself, and is the best chance to lead us out into true professionalism. I also think he will be able to do it.

We need someone with balls to make hard calls on our list.

i would also be hoping we convince Gardner that we need more than tweaking to get this list right. I hope he is keen as i am as we are not in the habit of recruiting guns by choice.

[beelzebub 23,383]

I have no doubt irregardless of who takes up reigns for 2008 that there will be a fire sale this year.

There is a certain attractive no nonsense approach that Voss exudes. He he has that particular kind of muted confidence and I like that..Still, like to see who else is on offer or who applies ( could be two quite differing lists..lol ).

[Goodvibes 3,596]

A pretty solid reference below:

http://www.afl.com.au/Season2007/News/News...px?newsId=46632

[QueenC 74]

There is a certain attractive no nonsense approach that Voss exudes. He he has that particular kind of muted confidence and I like that..Still, like to see who else is on offer or who applies ( could be two quite differing lists..lol ).

Well said bb59, I agree with you here......

His perceived (at least) no crap approach does seem to be a good fit for a club that needs to shelve a hell of a lot of self serving rubbish or the "content with themselves" attitude, and get back to the task of playing some basic fundamental hard nosed football, a skill in which Voss also seems to be well acquainted with.