On 15/04/2025 at 23:06, Superunknown said:

Peter Ryan article today in Domainfax on possible return for Petracoliver deals for those interested

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/rivals-still-sniffing-to-see-if-price-is-right-for-petracca-oliver-trades-20250415-p5lrs3.html

12ft.io is your friend as is Firefox on iOS18.

I'm so over the conjecture from journalists. This has been going on for 2 years.

  On 15/04/2025 at 23:47, GS_1905 said:

It beggars belief that this same old tripe is being dished up.

Anyone who thinks that we will part with a 2x ALFCA 4xBF, 3xAA for a packet of chips (Oliver is still 27) is outright mad. Of course his salary is at ~$1M per year. Other clubs would have likely paid him higher.

I'm realistic in that he's not worth 3 x Top 10 picks. But a Top 10 and a Future 1st is fair value.

Its a similar story for Trac 2xBF; 4xAA. He's a bit older (29) but probably will have a longer career given his professionalism and standards.

And here lies the dilemma. If we end up bottom 2 or even bottom 4 and acknowledge that we are in a rebuild phase, do we offload these 2 champions and get their salaries off our books, or do we just hold onto them because we believe we won't get "fair value" for them? The worst-case scenario is that we will finish middle of the road and still think we have a top 4 list.

  On 15/04/2025 at 23:47, GS_1905 said:

It beggars belief that this same old tripe is being dished up.

We're in the Monday-Thursday AFL Media Nonsense vortex.

Despite all the Pessimistic Brahe on Demonland and the press my take has not changed, If Tracc, Clayton and Kozzie get close to their best form in 2025 they will remain on the list. Who knows maybe the sky will fall in and we are all doomed.

  On 16/04/2025 at 00:51, Flowergirl said:

I'm so over the conjecture from journalists. This has been going on for 2 years.

There's too many of them thus all the gossip. They need to have something to get our attention

It's ok to break a story (if it is true) but when they start repeating themselves, that's a pointer that they are low on stories

And it's not one particular journo either, they are feeding the masses who by and large, love gossip

Over the years, I've managed to block out the bs & spin. I watch the footy shows in a very selective way ... as soon as they go away from footy matters, my mind goes elsewhere

For instance, I've almost completely switched off watching the Ch9 Sunday footy show ... but some of the new FTA footy shows are quite good (and enlightening)

  On 15/04/2025 at 10:58, Young Angus said:

I have faith that they're both good enough to turn it around, and I love that Petracca backed away from all the investigations and just committed to the club and playing footy with less outside noise, I think that's very important and a great step from someone who is quite important to us. Would love to see him get the captaincy, and love to see Oliver just keep working because I think he will rediscover some form.

The whole footy world knows what they're capable of, its in there somewhere, just need to find it again and I think they're genuinely trying and they care.

That's the optimist in me anyway, I'm sure no one hates how things are going more than they do!

Even if they both get back to there best hypothetically if the club is entering a new phase and needs to rebuild moving on players with value isn’t a bad idea, personally I think they are both still a bit off and the game has also changed such that their strengths aren’t as valuable and their weekness is more exposed. Oliver has never been quick and this is only getting exposed more and trac and Oliver have never been good kicks which is more important than ever for your main ball winners

  On 16/04/2025 at 00:51, Flowergirl said:

I'm so over the conjecture from journalists. This has been going on for 2 years.

its hardly conjecture though is it

Petracca shopped himself around last trade period and we told clarry to speak with geelong. Of course, clubs will be monitoring the situation while we will consider our go forward list requirements. journalists will report and opine on this.

Personally, i think Peter ryan is one of the better journos doing the rounds and i found the article well written and the scenarios outlined plausible enough.

  On 16/04/2025 at 00:53, damienjr said:

And here lies the dilemma. If we end up bottom 2 or even bottom 4 and acknowledge that we are in a rebuild phase, do we offload these 2 champions and get their salaries off our books, or do we just hold onto them because we believe we won't get "fair value" for them? The worst-case scenario is that we will finish middle of the road and still think we have a top 4 list.

Might I suggest the BEST case scenario is finishing "middle of the road" . Tbh I don't think that's at all probable or realistic. We can't win presently. Don't even look remotely close. By all accounts the next few games offer a better chance than the rest of the season. All of this just is. No joy in it.

So back to your thoughts.... do we flip or hold ? Might depend entirely on any value. I would also genuinely ask if it was their wish to stay or go.

We WILL be undertaking an entire rebuild. They might offer something in staying but success won't be their reward.

We've seriously over hyped this list.

Look around .... there are better.

We're all but equal last staring down 1919

I'd be very surprised if both are here next year. Neither might be .

  On 16/04/2025 at 02:04, BDA said:

its hardly conjecture though is it

Petracca shopped himself around last trade period and we told clarry to speak with geelong. Of course, clubs will be monitoring the situation while we will consider our go forward list requirements. journalists will report and opine on this.

Personally, i think Peter ryan is one of the better journos doing the rounds and i found the article well written and the scenarios outlined plausible enough.

To be honest BDA I think we talked to Crows about Clayton it was his manager that arranged the Cats sorte and Geeelong did their utmost best to make a mockery of us, given they had no trade capital.

  On 16/04/2025 at 02:08, DeeZone said:

To be honest BDA I think we talked to Crows about Clayton it was his manager that arranged the Cats sorte and Geeelong did their utmost best to make a mockery of us, given they had no trade capital.

yeah geelong were just tyre kicking but none the less clarry did speak with them and this is well documented, hence journos will speculate

  On 16/04/2025 at 02:00, Garbo said:

Even if they both get back to there best hypothetically if the club is entering a new phase and needs to rebuild moving on players with value isn’t a bad idea, personally I think they are both still a bit off and the game has also changed such that their strengths aren’t as valuable and their weekness is more exposed. Oliver has never been quick and this is only getting exposed more and trac and Oliver have never been good kicks which is more important than ever for your main ball winners

I don't think there is much trade value in Petracca or Oliver unfortunately due to their contracts being so big. Petracca might be worth a late first round pick in a poor draft and Oliver is a late pick only.

I think we need to move Oliver on to free our cap and inject some pace into the midfield. Langford is very slow and needs to be complimented by quicker midfielders.

I also don't think you want to be completely rebuilding because it can destroy your club like WCE and North.

This year vs last year is very different given Tracs personal (likely partly family driven) issues towards the club and Oliver was still getting over everything in his personal life, things were getting mended and they probably still are.

I would imagine Tracs family pushing him like one-eyed Colilngwood supporters to try and get traded and Trac was particularly vulnerable, but I'm thinking this year maybe he has realized he loves his club that he won a premiership with and wants to just put all that mess behind him, maybe tell him family to cool their jets, and just get on with trying to be awesome again for his club! That would be my take on it anyway, pure conjecture, but seems plausible enough.

Oliver on the other hand just needs to keep working, and I reckon he and Trac's relationship is probably quite important too, I feel like those guys firing fit in cahoots helped the team a lot.

They're got the skills, they do need to make adjustments though. I'm backing them in!

  On 15/04/2025 at 10:58, Young Angus said:

I have faith that they're both good enough to turn it around, and I love that Petracca backed away from all the investigations and just committed to the club and playing footy with less outside noise, I think that's very important and a great step from someone who is quite important to us. Would love to see him get the captaincy, and love to see Oliver just keep working because I think he will rediscover some form.

The whole footy world knows what they're capable of, its in there somewhere, just need to find it again and I think they're genuinely trying and they care.

That's the optimist in me anyway, I'm sure no one hates how things are going more than they do!

Each to there own. Its great to see Trac back away, but for me, he burnt too many bridges to go down the captaincy route. At the end of the day the playing group will have a say in the matter so if they are onboard with Trac being elected captain so be it.

Im not over-the-moon with Lever as captain so I'm really clueless as to who should be leading this club onfield. I think Max would have liked to step aside last year and is really struggling with it this year.

  On 16/04/2025 at 02:15, BDA said:

yeah geelong were just tyre kicking but none the less clarry did speak with them and this is well documented, hence journos will speculate

And journos constantly fawn over Geelong so they get the more favourable commentary.

  On 16/04/2025 at 02:17, Fat Tony said:

I don't think there is much trade value in Petracca or Oliver unfortunately due to their contracts being so big. Petracca might be worth a late first round pick in a poor draft and Oliver is a late pick only.

I think we need to move Oliver on to free our cap and inject some pace into the midfield. Langford is very slow and needs to be complimented by quicker midfielders.

I also don't think you want to be completely rebuilding because it can destroy your club like WCE and North.

You do realise FT that Clarry is still in our Top 5, Tracc will only continue to improve as he regains his Match Fitness and confidence in his body. They both have 3-4 years left in them at the top level and I would rather that be in our colours not someone else’s. If and I say a big If they both bomb on us in the second half of the season maybe then we think about how we limit the damage but let’s not jump the gun.

I've found myself flip-flopping on these 2 players on a weekly basis

However, if both hit their straps and play like they did when they were both top 10 (in the league) why would we not hang on to them?

After all, both are contracted to the club for about half a decade each

And if both players return to their very best, the offers for both players would need to be sky high

Both players are in their peak years right now so expectations should remain high

Clarry needs to handball a lot more because that is strength (apart from being a ball-magnet ... remember when we wanted him to kick it more often?)

Different players but Greg Williams was devastating with his handpassing and would often just short pass with his kicks

As for Petracca, he might need to dominate as a high half forward (however, he played the whole of 2019 as a high half-forward and later on we heard that he'd held meetings with the FD about returning back to the midfield)

The coaches need to work on Oliver playing to his strengths. For mine he's not as fit or nearly as damaging as he once was. Personally I don't think the team look hungry and if you ain't hungry you'll eventually starve. Goodwin should of be running players through the VFL. No one should be immune. Ego's need bruising to see who's in for the hard work we need to put in.

  On 16/04/2025 at 02:46, DeeZone said:

You do realise FT that Clarry is still in our Top 5, Tracc will only continue to improve as he regains his Match Fitness and confidence in his body. They both have 3-4 years left in them at the top level and I would rather that be in our colours not someone else’s. If and I say a big If they both bomb on us in the second half of the season maybe then we think about how we limit the damage but let’s not jump the gun.

Oliver is ranked 144 in the AFL this year on Wheelo Ratings but he is being paid as a top 10 player it the competition. He is also a difficult player to manage and declining with age. He is a negative trade asset.

Petracca will hopefully improve. He is ranked 65 in the competition this year. I still think at his age (30 next year) and salary the market will not be as hot as you think.

  On 16/04/2025 at 03:31, Roost it far said:

The coaches need to work on Oliver playing to his strengths. For mine he's not as fit or nearly as damaging as he once was. Personally I don't think the team look hungry and if you ain't hungry you'll eventually starve. Goodwin should of be running players through the VFL. No one should be immune. Ego's need bruising to see who's in for the hard work we need to put in.

Agreed. I think Oliver is the player with the least drop in form when compared to Trac, Rivers, Viney and Sparrow.

  On 16/04/2025 at 03:38, Fat Tony said:

Oliver is ranked 144 in the AFL this year on Wheelo Ratings but he is being paid as a top 10 player it the competition. He is also a difficult player to manage and declining with age. He is a negative trade asset.

Petracca will hopefully improve. He is ranked 65 in the competition this year. I still think at his age (30 next year) and salary the market will not be as hot as you think.

Petracca should be able to match Dangerfield as he ages and I think he will. Oliver needs to be much fitter in my book but that's just what I see, as for Viney, sheesh he should be playing at Casey.

  On 16/04/2025 at 03:40, GS_1905 said:

Agreed. I think Oliver is the player with the least drop in form when compared to Trac, Rivers, Viney and Sparrow.

I'm not sure we can expect Petracca to become a forward/mid when we butcher the ball going into F50, the forwards don't lead, space is ignored and it's kick on your head time.

  On 16/04/2025 at 02:48, Macca said:

I've found myself flip-flopping on these 2 players on a weekly basis

However, if both hit their straps and play like they did when they were both top 10 (in the league) why would we not hang on to them?

After all, both are contracted to the club for about half a decade each

And if both players return to their very best, the offers for both players would need to be sky high

Both players are in their peak years right now so expectations should remain high

Clarry needs to handball a lot more because that is strength (apart from being a ball-magnet ... remember when we wanted him to kick it more often?)

Different players but Greg Williams was devastating with his handpassing and would often just short pass with his kicks

As for Petracca, he might need to dominate as a high half forward (however, he played the whole of 2019 as a high half-forward and later on we heard that he'd held meetings with the FD about returning back to the midfield)

The peak years for an AFL player are much younger than you think. The top ranked players in the AFL this year are:

Rowell 24

Brayshaw 26

Holmes 23

Sam Darcy 22

Miller 29

Serong 24

McCluggage 27

Richards 26

Jackson 24

Anderson 24

T De Koning 26

  On 16/04/2025 at 03:53, Fat Tony said:

The peak years for an AFL player are much younger than you think. The top ranked players in the AFL this year are:

Rowell 24

Brayshaw 26

Holmes 23

Sam Darcy 22

Miller 29

Serong 24

McCluggage 27

Richards 26

Jackson 24

Anderson 24

T De Koning 26

Yeah sure, but nearly all A Grade Elite's (the Crème de la Creme) can play top footballers well into their 30's these days

Both players are gifted athletes and I can see no reason why they can't return to their best for at least the next 3 or 4 years

But you might have got me on a technicality, Tony!

  On 16/04/2025 at 04:24, Macca said:

Yeah sure, but nearly all A Grade Elite's (the Crème de la Creme) can play top footballers well into their 30's these days

Both players are gifted athletes and I can see no reason why they can't return to their best for at least the next 3 or 4 years

But you might have got me on a technicality, Tony!

I’d say within 5-10% of their peak will still having them playing top line footy. Maybe not making AA teams but still damaging and pulling their weight.

  On 16/04/2025 at 04:27, GS_1905 said:

I’d say within 5-10% of their peak will still having them playing top line footy. Maybe not making AA teams but still damaging and pulling their weight.

Well I'm looking for A Grade Elite because that's what we are paying for (Petracca & Oliver)

Mind you, there's another dozen examples right now so it's not just about those 2

I can't ever remember seeing a top line squad playing so poorly ... at least back in the Bailey, Neeld & Roos's (first 2 years) era, we all knew we didn't have much talent (hindsight tells us that as well)