Just now, KozzyCan said:

We only started taking it through the corridor once North got on top and we didn't get much out of it because we still just bombed the ball in deep to the same spot when we should be being for more unpredictable from that position. I've never seen a team with a more baffling forward set up than us.

I disagree, I think we were looking to go through the corridor from the beginning. We had more chances as the game opened up a bit in the 3rd (and we caught North on transition from turnover) but we were looking inbound from early in the game.

Agree about our forward setup it is [censored] abysmal, the fact it continues the same as it has for 2-3 years without being fixed is evidence it is by design which is as you said baffling.

3 minutes ago, KozzyCan said:

Nah don't believe that at all. Collingwood are ancient and Macrae totally transformed them when he came in.

You don't need to be a team filled with perfect kicks to play attacking football it's more about how you set up your players. If you bring your forwards up higher and focus on creating turnovers then you have a paddock between your press and your goals. Heaps of space for forwards to run into and all you need to ask of your mids is to kick it to their advantage.

You can also cheat forward in the midfield and have your players move the ball aggressively by hand.

Loads of stuff you can do.

I don't think we get the best out of our players with our game style.

Good points

I agree, there's a lot more that we could do apart from trying to hit up forwards with precision passing

There's teamwork and then there's playing as a team.  We're not doing either very well these days

The saving grace is that we still have a lot of talent on the list.  We just need to get the best out of them 

1 hour ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

6-6-6 killed it too, he used to have one or two players off the back of the square but can't do that anymore.

 

Edited March 23Mar 23 by demon3165

1 minute ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I disagree, I think we were looking to go through the corridor from the beginning. We had more chances as the game opened up a bit in the 3rd (and we caught North on transition from turnover) but we were looking inbound from early in the game.

Agree about our forward setup it is [censored] abysmal, the fact it continues the same as it has for 2-3 years without being fixed is evidence it is by design which is as you said baffling.

Yeah well there's no point going through the corridor if you're just going to bomb it to a contest in the goal square, might as well just hug the boundary. It's high risk play for no reward.

1 hour ago, Macca said:

Realistically, we are not going to sack Goodwin in season.  But if we fall right away, the end of the season could see the end for Simon

But we'd have to fall right away (7 wins or less)

Right now, we don't have the players with the skills to play the new type of offense that we are seeing from a number of clubs

However, if we add May,  Melk, Kozzie,  Kolt,  Windsor,  McVee,  Johnson & Langford (he should have played today) we'll be a lot more competitive at least

Add those 8 and take out Spargo,  Woey,  Turner,  Jefferson,  Sharp,  Howes and take your pick on 2 more and we're a much better team

But back to our offense ... it stinks

And Goodwin & Chaplin are responsible 

Our method of advancing the ball is treacle-slow and we avoid the corridor like the plague.  And our skills on offense are bog-average

Then there's the actual forward line which is right now, bereft of talent

But all of the above can improve with an injection of talent (especially up forward) 

The other thing that stood out today is our lack of teamwork and the lack of selfless acts

Early doors but it's going to take a big turnaround.  It's just as well we've got 5 winnable games in our next 6 games (Suns, Bombers, Freo, Tigers & Eagles) 

Hard to see us beating Geelong at Geelong in round 4 but we're going to have to win at least 3 of the other 5 to keep the wolves at bay

After round 8, as you would all be aware, our fixture gets tough

So realistically you are happy to be in a holding pattern all year??

If the connection between Coach, gameplan and players is not working by mid season then Goodwin has to go.

There is no reason why we shouldn’t have the players with skill to play a modern gameplan, every other club this year so far has looked way faster and committed than us in moving the ball. This is not a new problem for us, we have all seen it on repeat 
 

1 hour ago, Macca said:

I'm with you on the Suns as of the 8 players I listed that are virtually walk-up starts when fit, only 2 umprovens in Langford & Johnson might be available

So the team would still have too many weak links 

Langford could end up being a good player (at least) whilst Johnson would at least add a bit of vigour and presence up forward

I just don't see it with Turner & Jefferson

But we are weeks away from having a decent list of good players available for selection

Use Turner as a lead up player but no use leading when the midfield can't kick to you.

On 24/10/2024 at 18:31, picket fence said:

Ho ho ya gotta get there first!! If we are 2 wins, 4 loses after 6 He will and should be sacked! Lets stop [censored] footing around, however... if he is 4 wins 2 loses he keeps his job...! For a while yet

How about 0 and 6 PF?! 

Just now, Sir Why You Little said:

So realistically you are happy to be in a holding pattern all year??

It's got nothing to do with me, SWYL

My evaluation is based on what I believe the club will do with regards to Goodwin's contract

It would have to be a complete disaster and even then, I don't believe the club would act until  seasons end anyway

Another factor would be the pay-out figure and whether the club would be prepared to pay out a hefty amount

The other big factor are the players themselves ... you made the call that they 'gave up' today

So if that is the case, that's on the players, not the coach.  Should we sack all the players who gave up?  

11 minutes ago, demon3165 said:

Use Turner as a lead up player but no use leading when the midfield can't kick to you.

We need better key forwards

I'm not enamoured with Turner, Johnson, Jefferson or JVR.  Maybe we could try Kentfield?  

1 minute ago, Macca said:

It's got nothing to do with me, SWYL

My evaluation is based on what I believe the club will do with regards to Goodwin's contract

It would have to be a complete disaster and even then, I don't believe the club would act until  seasons end anyway

Another factor would be the pay-out figure and whether the club would be prepared to pay out a hefty amount

The other big factor are the players themselves ... you made the call that they 'gave up' today

So if that is the case, that's on the players, not the coach.  Should we sack all the players who gave up?  

The players weren’t switched on from the first bounce as a team. Once again we kicked a paltry score, meanwhile the backline got thrashed 

At no stage did we take control of the game, even though we won center clearances, this scenario happened all through last year.
So whatever messages the Coach is giving the players it’s not adhered too. 
It’s not like today was an outlier 

30 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I disagree, I think we were looking to go through the corridor from the beginning. We had more chances as the game opened up a bit in the 3rd (and we caught North on transition from turnover) but we were looking inbound from early in the game.

Agree about our forward setup it is [censored] abysmal, the fact it continues the same as it has for 2-3 years without being fixed is evidence it is by design which is as you said baffling.

Pre season should have had groups of 4 running at pace through the corridor against the whole team trying to get into the forward 50 at pace on repeat until it becomes instinctive.
We need super fit ground ball winners that can go HB to F50. Kozzy is one, Windsor is two. Need 3-4 more. 

4 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

The players weren’t switched on from the first bounce as a team. Once again we kicked a paltry score, meanwhile the backline got thrashed 

At no stage did we take control of the game, even though we won center clearances, this scenario happened all through last year.
So whatever messages the Coach is giving the players it’s not adhered too. 
It’s not like today was an outlier 

Well, I beg to differ, more so on how the players went about it

Heads were bowed in the 2nd half and we haven't seen that for an age

Half-hearted chasing along with an abundance of missed tackles.  The players let themselves down today

And yes, if the message isn't getting through then that's a huge issue but today's loss is not all on Goodwin

A new coach would need the rest of the season and the off-season to swing things around anyway.  There'd be no instant results ... footy has changed and to learn a whole new game plan takes time (as we're finding out)

.

Edited March 23Mar 23 by GS_1905

3 minutes ago, Macca said:

Well, I beg to differ, more so on how the players went about it

Heads were bowed in the 2nd half and we haven't seen that for an age

Half-hearted chasing along with an abundance of missed tackles.  The players let themselves down today

And yes, if the message isn't getting through then that's a huge issue but today's loss is not all on Goodwin

A new coach would need the rest of the season and the off-season to swing things around anyway.  There'd be no instant results ... footy has changed and to learn a whole new game plan takes time (as we're finding out)

This is why you’d have to pull the trigger mid season and start to get in season changes started. They’ll be tactical and unlikely to stick but it will be a start. The changes can continue in off season and will likely need a further season to ingrain. What ever way you look at it it’s  1-2 year proposition best case.

10 minutes ago, Macca said:

Well, I beg to differ, more so on how the players went about it

Heads were bowed in the 2nd half and we haven't seen that for an age

Half-hearted chasing along with an abundance of missed tackles.  The players let themselves down today

And yes, if the message isn't getting through then that's a huge issue but today's loss is not all on Goodwin

A new coach would need the rest of the season and the off-season to swing things around anyway.  There'd be no instant results ... footy has changed and to learn a whole new game plan takes time (as we're finding out)

What game plan are they learning though Macca?

We have gone nowhere and not improved for 3 years now.

Instead we are heading south and just got our [censored] handed to us by a bottom four club from the previous season. 

Norf are on the improve no doubt but that was as bad a performance we've seen since 2019 out there today.

And in all that i could not decipher any semblance of us trying to implement something different and special that will see us turn things around and potentially play finals in 2025.

Just more of the same garbage we've seen since about Rnd 11, 2022.

Edited March 23Mar 23 by Demon Dynasty

It should be remembered that the team today consisted of players who are not proven at the top level (Woewodin, Jefferson, Turner,  Sharp, Howes, JVR, Henderson, Lindsay etc) 

Along with a number of proven players who were well down on their best (T-Mac, Petty, Lever, Fritsch, Spargo, Rivers, Bowey etc)

To have that many poor contributors can't be the fault of the coach alone

Don't let the players off the hook, we did that with Neeld (Roos came in and got rid of 30+ players in 3 off-seasons, therefore, the 2nd rebuild within 7 or 8 years)

 

11 minutes ago, Macca said:

Well, I beg to differ, more so on how the players went about it

Heads were bowed in the 2nd half and we haven't seen that for an age

Half-hearted chasing along with an abundance of missed tackles.  The players let themselves down today

And yes, if the message isn't getting through then that's a huge issue but today's loss is not all on Goodwin

A new coach would need the rest of the season and the off-season to swing things around anyway.  There'd be no instant results ... footy has changed and to learn a whole new game plan takes time (as we're finding out)

I wouldn’t expect a new Coach to salvage this year if current trends continue.
But if we are not winning games by mid season there is no point wasting the rest of this year. This is Goodwin’s 11th season at the Club. He should have honed his skills by now. 
As i said, the whole team were not switched on at the first bounce, that is definitely on the Head Coach. It is also on the Leadership group out in the middle, but they were also disinterested 

9 minutes ago, GS_1905 said:

This is why you’d have to pull the trigger mid season and start to get in season changes started. They’ll be tactical and unlikely to stick but it will be a start. The changes can continue in off season and will likely need a further season to ingrain. What ever way you look at it it’s  1-2 year proposition best case.

In my view, if we get to 8 or 10 wins Goodwin will stay on

Anything less than that could see a change but we'd wait until the end of the season as there's a good chance that we'd probably appoint a caretaker coach anyway (if the change happened in season)

The 2021 flag would be a factor from the club's point of view as well.  Would we want all that media attention that would be sure to follow?

I just reckon that's how it would go

Just my view

4 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

It is also on the Leadership group out in the middle, but they were also disinterested 

Now we're talking

As previously stated, do not let the players off the hook

My reaction in the last quarter was all on the players, not the coach

We surrendered meekly and a number of non-efforts were embarrassing

8 minutes ago, Macca said:

In my view, if we get to 8 or 10 wins Goodwin will stay on

Anything less than that could see a change but we'd wait until the end of the season as there's a good chance that we'd probably appoint a caretaker coach anyway (if the change happened in season)

The 2021 flag would be a factor from the club's point of view as well.  Would we want all that media attention that would be sure to follow?

I just reckon that's how it would go

Just my view

Respect is warranted 100%. You’d just hope that Goody will call a spade a spade and see his time is up and we agree to an amicable end and move on if the results don’t fall our way sooner rather than later.
 

 

Edited March 23Mar 23 by GS_1905

19 minutes ago, Demon Dynasty said:

What game plan are they learning though Macca?

We have gone nowhere and not improved for 3 years now.

Instead we are heading south and just got our [censored] handed to us by a bottom four club from the previous season. 

Norf are on the improve no doubt but that was as bad a performance we've seen since 2019 out there today.

And in all that i could not decipher any semblance of us trying to implement something different and special that will see us turn things around and potentially play finals in 2025.

Just more of the same garbage we've seen since about Rnd 11, 2022.

Don't get me wrong, if we keep racking up the losses the pressure is sure to focus on Goodwin

But in my view, unless it's a complete disaster (say, a 0 & 12 record or suchlike) I can't see Goodwin not coaching out the season

But 0 & 12?  Can't see it as there's a few bog average teams and our team will get stronger once May, Kozzie, Kolt, Windsor, McVee, Melk, Langford & AJ return

We'll win games and the confidence will return.  

Finals threat?  Unlikely

8 - 10 wins?  Quite possible

6 minutes ago, Macca said:

Now we're talking

As previously stated, do not let the players off the hook

My reaction in the last quarter was all on the players, not the coach

We surrendered meekly and a number of non-efforts were embarrassing

Reality is,it will always be easier to sack one coach than overhauling your list of A grade players.

 

54 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

So realistically you are happy to be in a holding pattern all year??

If the connection between Coach, gameplan and players is not working by mid season then Goodwin has to go.

There is no reason why we shouldn’t have the players with skill to play a modern gameplan, every other club this year so far has looked way faster and committed than us in moving the ball. This is not a new problem for us, we have all seen it on repeat 
 

I think it should be end of the season. Goodwin deserves that he won us a premiership and it just gives the interim coach false hope. Longmire is our man and Goodwin should see out the year. I tell you who else should go? Chaplin been around forever and is our forwards coach. When the hell has he been a forward? He's teaching the like of Turner and van Rooyen forward craft when he has never been a forward. Our forward line has been a weakness forever and we refuse to pick up a forward coach that has actually played as a forward. BAZAAR

6 minutes ago, Macca said:

Now we're talking

As previously stated, do not let the players off the hook

My reaction in the last quarter was all on the players, not the coach

We surrendered meekly and a number of non-efforts were embarrassing

Fish rots at the Head. If the players don’t care, it must ultimately be on the Head Coach 

North have won 10 games in 3 years and we couldn’t be bothered 

Goodwin is on thin ice

3 minutes ago, Macca said:

Don't get me wrong, if we keep racking up the losses the pressure is sure to focus on Goodwin

But in my view, unless it's a complete disaster (say, a 0 & 12 record or suchlike) I can't see Goodwin not coaching out the season

But 0 & 12?  Can't see it as there's a few bog average teams and our team will get stronger once May, Kozzie, Kolt, Windsor, McVee, Melk, Langford & AJ return

We'll win games and the confidence will return.  

Finals threat?  Unlikely

8 - 10 wins?  Quite possible

It's got to be finals or bust for Goodwin. 8 to 10 wins is a bust for me. He's taken them as far as he can and it's time for a fresh face.