47 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

So what does that say about the culture Longmire has created compared to Goodwin if he flourished in an a environment where opportunities were present for him. Longmire has a good history of this. Goodwin doesn't, he's flawed.

And the player development. JVR has gone backwards in his development of anything, with proper coaching he would be coming into his own as a young KPF. Rivers the same. There are probably other examples I could cite but so many players come in with raw talent but don't progress to become better/more well rounded players.

5 minutes ago, Macca said:

And he's not gone yet so don't count your chickens, Gonzo

A heavy loss today won't be good for Goodwin but I reckon the Board will give the bloke some grace (time)

How long? Depends on whether we keep losing and the margin of defeats

My argument all along is that the issues we have are widespread. On field and off field

For instance, hindsight should have taught all of us that Neeld was just a symptom, not the root cause

Neeld wasn't the reason that the club was in virtual administration ( from the AFL) ... we were a basket case and Neeld walked into a minefield

Not saying he was a good coach of course. There's just a lot of other factors

If people here were more prone to saying that our issues are the coaching and the players, you'd probably never hear from me

But 90% of the posts on this thread don't even mention the players being at fault ... and that's wrong

The players and their output is a huge factor

I'm ambivalent as to whether Goodwin is sacked now (and I don't think he will be before the bye at the very least) but I can see the writing on the wall. It would be a monumental turnaround for him to still be coaching in 2026. If the board believe he is the right person then hopefully they back themselves in and aren't swayed by supporter/public pressure.

This is his 9th year as coach and 12th year at the club. That's a long stint for anyone, it may just be that it is time to move on. Few coaches coach their clubs for more than a dozen years and even fewer who have one or less premierships to their name.

Lol, now Jordon is a loss. The bloke wasa role player who was shown up for pace in 2022 and struggled to stay in games post Round 10.

Would he be a handy role player? Sure. But the way we speak of former MFC players or opposition players, they're suddenly B+ or A graders.

But in a Melbourne jumper they are constantly criticised. Jordon was a fringe player for a reason.

Incidentally, this happens in all good teams. Role players fall out. Sometimes they become stars at their second club (think Josh Kennedy post Hawthorn at Sydney), but most of the time, they demonstrate the same limitations at their next club.

5 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I'm ambivalent as to whether Goodwin is sacked now (and I don't think he will be before the bye at the very least) but I can see the writing on the wall. It would be a monumental turnaround for him to still be coaching in 2026. If the board believe he is the right person then hopefully they back themselves in and aren't swayed by supporter/public pressure.

This is his 9th year as coach and 12th year at the club. That's a long stint for anyone, it may just be that it is time to move on. Few coaches coach their clubs for more than a dozen years and even fewer who have one or less premierships to their name.

Fair points but if Goodwin goes, our troubles aren't over, in my view

What is an interim coach do with our sorry lot of players? I doubt we'd win another match for the season

We might get a bounce-back win although that doesn't happen as much in pro sports these days

A new game plan mid season? No thanks, we can't even enact the one we've got now

The sport is too sophisticated these days and it should be like the NFL. Wait until the end of the season

Soccer? There's a million coaches and the culture in soccer is sack, sack, sack

And at the end of the season, the club needs to sort out the playing list ... turf out anyone who doesn't want to be part of the future and trade hard

No favourites, no one in the gun, just sort it out

6 minutes ago, Adam The God said:

Lol, now Jordon is a loss. The bloke wasa role player who was shown up for pace in 2022 and struggled to stay in games post Round 10.

Would he be a handy role player? Sure. But the way we speak of former MFC players or opposition players, they're suddenly B+ or A graders.

But in a Melbourne jumper they are constantly criticised. Jordon was a fringe player for a reason.

Incidentally, this happens in all good teams. Role players fall out. Sometimes they become stars at their second club (think Josh Kennedy post Hawthorn at Sydney), but most of the time, they demonstrate the same limitations at their next club.

Yeah it really annoys me the way some people start to grossly overrate players as soon as they leave. People did the same thing to Jayden Hunt (a terrible kick and a terrible decision maker) and Lynden Dunn (an over the hill defender).

Edited April 19Apr 19 by Hopeful Demon

Just now, Hopeful Demon said:

Yeah it really annoys me the way some people start to grossly overrate players as soon as they leave. People did the same thing to Jayden Hunt (a terrible kick and a terrible decision maker) and Lynden Dunn (and over the hill defender).

And Sam Frost, that said they overrated Frosty when he was on the list too.

7 minutes ago, Macca said:

Fair points but if Goodwin goes, our troubles aren't over, in my view

What is an interim coach do with our sorry lot of players? I doubt we'd win another match for the season

We might get a bounce-back win although that doesn't happen as much in pro sports these days

A new game plan mid season? No thanks, we can't even enact the one we've got now

The sport is too sophisticated these days and it should be like the NFL. Wait until the end of the season

Soccer? There's a million coaches and the culture in soccer is sack, sack, sack

And at the end of the season, the club needs to sort out the playing list ... turf out anyone who doesn't want to be part of the future and trade hard

No favourites, no one in the gun, just sort it out

Goody and the coaches did a terrific job winning a flag despite the mess off field. It wasn't sustainable because the FD has the wrong mix IMV (with soft cap constraints). That's on the board and the current president for his lack of oversight or decision making acumen. Green was responsible for the football side and we had Clarry doing his thing and Trac throwing us under a bus because our FD couldn't communicate properly with player.

Our problems are far bigger than Goody. That doesn't mean I think he will or should coach beyond 2025, but look at the midfield coaches he's got to work with...

1 minute ago, Adam The God said:

Goody and the coaches did a terrific job winning a flag despite the mess off field. It wasn't sustainable because the FD has the wrong mix IMV (with soft cap constraints). That's on the board and the current president for his lack of oversight or decision making acumen. Green was responsible for the football side and we had Clarry doing his thing and Trac throwing us under a bus because our FD couldn't communicate properly with player.

Our problems are far bigger than Goody. That doesn't mean I think he will or should coach beyond 2025, but look at the midfield coaches he's got to work with...

On the surface of things, Chaplin looks to be quite useless at his job (he's in charge of the offense & forward line)

But where's the call for Chaplin to be sacked? How does he not get any scrutiny?

And Jones as the midfield coach? Pathetic

Our midfielders need to be working together but we're seeing everything but that happening

Years ago on this site I made mention that we need a playbook for stoppages. Because if we don't, that's pure amateur hour

As for our forward line, apart from Kozzie and Petracca, none of the rest of them can win their own ball. It's woeful

JVR & Fritsch have felt the wrath and it's about time. Both of them need to dominate at Casey to get back in ... 1 or 2 decent games is not going to cut it

But really, Sparrow, Viney and at least a few others should be joining them (at Casey)

The expendables are the assistant coaches, they are a dime-a-dozen

So before Goodwin, we should move on Chaplin & Jones. And what do Bassett and Richardson offer? SFA as far as I can see

Edited April 19Apr 19 by Macca

It’s frustrating watching all of these arguments because as has been mentioned countless times by so many people and the overwhelming main crux of my issue with Goodwin and why I lost faith in him a while back now is:

We almost always win F50 entries and we never score enough goals because the vast majority of the entries are JUNK.

Essentially 3 years of this, week after week. Still happening. Probably worse now.

If responsibility for this doesn’t fall squarely on Goodwins shoulders… well… we’re entering cult levels of self delusion honestly.

3 years. Worse.

On a lighter note, I'm not sure that Goodwin will go the way of Neil Balme

Balmy was effectively sacked at half time in a match against St Kilda in 1997 (Gutnick went on radio at half time and said change was coming (the coaching)

We sure know how to sack 'em at the Demons

So the protest game (186) was supposedly about CS but we sacked Bailey instead and then extended CS contract

Only at Melbourne

3 minutes ago, Macca said:

On a lighter note, I'm not sure that Goodwin will go the way of Neil Balme

Balmy was effectively sacked at half time in a match against St Kilda in 1997 (Gutnick went on radio at half time and said change was coming (the coaching)

We sure know how to sack 'em at the Demons

So the protest game (186) was supposedly about CS but we sacked Bailey instead and then extended CS contract

Only at Melbourne

Bailey was run over by Neeld’s reality bus which then ran off the road and sunk in the Yarra

17 hours ago, bing181 said:

Confirmation bias.

Especially when Simpson put his hand up and said that he'd failed.

Your favourite expression

We will all have confirmation bias when we're sitting some motherless last at the end of this round

Yet amazingly some people still won't be able to see the bleeding obvious

15 hours ago, bing181 said:

  15 hours ago, Lucifers Hero said:

Simpson said they liked how Port attacked so got Port folk in but their attempts at a system change still failed as they didn't have the right players.

3 hours ago, Macca said:

You need to start critiquing the players a lot more. Stop blaming Goodwin

This argument is ridiculous if Goodwin refuses to drop players that don't follow his instructions like Viney Oliver Petracca sparrow etc.

If they're being told not to bomb the ball into the fwf50 and they continue to do it, of course it's Goodwin's fault

41 minutes ago, Macca said:

On the surface of things, Chaplin looks to be quite useless at his job (he's in charge of the offense & forward line)

But where's the call for Chaplin to be sacked? How does he not get any scrutiny?

And Jones as the midfield coach? Pathetic

Our midfielders need to be working together but we're seeing everything but that happening

Years ago on this site I made mention that we need a playbook for stoppages. Because if we don't, that's pure amateur hour

As for our forward line, apart from Kozzie and Petracca, none of the rest of them can win their own ball. It's woeful

JVR & Fritsch have felt the wrath and it's about time. Both of them need to dominate at Casey to get back in ... 1 or 2 decent games is not going to cut it

But really, Sparrow, Viney and at least a few others should be joining them (at Casey)

The expendables are the assistant coaches, they are a dime-a-dozen

So before Goodwin, we should move on Chaplin & Jones. And what do Bassett and Richardson offer? SFA as far as I can see

Yes, you are spot on. The assistant coaches methinks are also on the endangered species list. Simon Goodwin might be the head honcho but if he goes, the domino effect needs to happen with the assistants. The team itself is another big headache. A result of poor recruitment, unrealistic contract extensions and an ageing list of key players backed by no clear progression plan. Not looking forward to the Fremantle game, the Demons look lost and clueless.

5 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

If they're being told not to bomb the ball into the fwf50 and they continue to do it, of course it's Goodwin's fault

So if I ask you to catch a beach ball and you drop it, that's my fault? Your argument lacks logic

Do you also want to blame Goodwin for world hunger?

And Goodwin just dropped JVR & Fritsch. You and many others were calling for their heads so you should be happy

He can't drop all the underperformers at once, but he's at least made a start

Reminds me of the notorious poster here who blamed the players for 186 but wants to sack Goodwin if it happened again

Hypocrisy... alive and well amongst footy fans

By the way, the players looked to me like they were protesting in the last 4 games

Let's see if they've got any self-respect today hey?

9 minutes ago, Van Demons Land said:

Yes, you are spot on. The assistant coaches methinks are also on the endangered species list. Simon Goodwin might be the head honcho but if he goes, the domino effect needs to happen with the assistants. The team itself is another big headache. A result of poor recruitment, unrealistic contract extensions and an ageing list of key players backed by no clear progression plan. Not looking forward to the Fremantle game, the Demons look lost and clueless.

I'd get rid of a couple of the assistant coaches before Goodwin ... and I'd do it now

1 hour ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I think you're over egging Goodwin's coaching record. He's had a pretty good season (2018) and a very good season (2021) and a couple of seasons where we got by on talent and a dour game plan but ultimately couldn't get the job done (2022-23). He's also had a couple of bad seasons (2019, 2024-25) and a season where we underachieved (2017).

He isn't a master coach like a Sheedy or Clarkson and he didn't get the most out of our list like a Hardwick.

He implemented a system that was very difficult to beat but I also think a lot of our dominance in 2021 came down to Burgess (and the assistants to a lesser extent), particularly our ability to run over teams and the psychological belief that we were superior and would win out. Don't forget though 2021 wasn't pure dominance from start to finish, we had a big dip midyear and only won the minor premiership with an after the siren kick after coming back from 7 goals down.

Good coach? Yes he has been. Great coach? I don't think the evidence supports that.

I'm certainly not taking @Macca 's side of the argument here, that it's 100% the players (although I think Macca doesn't actually believe that but is taking the devil's advocate approach to counter those who say it's 100% Goodwin - for the record, neither argument is correct. Our current predicament is partly due to poor coaching, partly due to players not taking responsibility for their own form/fitness/recovery/etc., partly due to a lack of leadership at the Board/CEO level, partly due to list management - it's multi-factorial).

But the bolded really drives me nuts. You're not the only one to do it, but it seems like whenever someone in 2025 wants to argue that Goodwin's struggling and maybe even should be sacked, we get "he wasn't even that good in 2021".

It's unfair revisionism.

In 2021 we went 17-1-4 with a percentage of 130.8%, 5th for points for and 1st for points against. The "big dip midyear" you mentioned was a period where we went 4-1-4, where the four losses included losses to GWS (semi finalist) and the Dogs (grand finalist). The same period included wins over the Dogs, Brisbane (semi finalist) and Port Adelaide away (preliminary finalist).

We were the best side through all of 2021. It was a dominant season.

There's also an insane amount of "it wasn't Goodwin, it was the assistants/Burgess". Just like our current predicament, 2021 was the result of everyone being at the top of their game. That doesn't mean Goodwin didn't do an excellent job, nor does it mean he doesn't deserve credit for coaching us to the flag. He does.

Cutting down his achievements in 2021 is unnecessary to also be correct in saying that we are putrid in 2025 and that Goodwin's coaching has not been good this year, or last, or even the year before.

4 hours ago, Macca said:

Well, at last we agree

But you just want to sack the coach

🤔For starters 😉👍

Edited April 19Apr 19 by beelzebub

1 hour ago, Adam The God said:

Lol, now Jordon is a loss. The bloke wasa role player who was shown up for pace in 2022 and struggled to stay in games post Round 10.

Would he be a handy role player? Sure. But the way we speak of former MFC players or opposition players, they're suddenly B+ or A graders.

But in a Melbourne jumper they are constantly criticised. Jordon was a fringe player for a reason.

Incidentally, this happens in all good teams. Role players fall out. Sometimes they become stars at their second club (think Josh Kennedy post Hawthorn at Sydney), but most of the time, they demonstrate the same limitations at their next club.

i think a big part of the reason why Jordon is flourishing is that his current coach believes in him - and he is responding and growing in confidence.

2 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

I'm certainly not taking @Macca 's side of the argument here, that it's 100% the players (although I think Macca doesn't actually believe that but is taking the devil's advocate approach to counter those who say it's 100% Goodwin - for the record, neither argument is correct. Our current predicament is partly due to poor coaching, partly due to players not taking responsibility for their own form/fitness/recovery/etc., partly due to a lack of leadership at the Board/CEO level, partly due to list management - it's multi-factorial).

But the bolded really drives me nuts. You're not the only one to do it, but it seems like whenever someone in 2025 wants to argue that Goodwin's struggling and maybe even should be sacked, we get "he wasn't even that good in 2021".

It's unfair revisionism.

In 2021 we went 17-1-4 with a percentage of 130.8%, 5th for points for and 1st for points against. The "big dip midyear" you mentioned was a period where we went 4-1-4, where the four losses included losses to GWS (semi finalist) and the Dogs (grand finalist). The same period included wins over the Dogs, Brisbane (semi finalist) and Port Adelaide away (preliminary finalist).

We were the best side through all of 2021. It was a dominant season.

There's also an insane amount of "it wasn't Goodwin, it was the assistants/Burgess". Just like our current predicament, 2021 was the result of everyone being at the top of their game. That doesn't mean Goodwin didn't do an excellent job, nor does it mean he doesn't deserve credit for coaching us to the flag. He does.

Cutting down his achievements in 2021 is unnecessary to also be correct in saying that we are putrid in 2025 and that Goodwin's coaching has not been good this year, or last, or even the year before.

Yes, the blame should be all-encompassing, including all the off-field stuff. We're running a couple of cylinders short and it's a bit of a train-wreck to be honest

All the negative stuff that has happened has to have an effect. All that whilst trying to instigate a new game plan. Good luck

It can be argued that Goodwin is a victim of circumstances trying to implement a new game plan ... which started early last year and then was abandoned at some stage last season. It takes time to work

We probably should have kept with it last year but that's a hindsight observation (and therefore, unfair)

The team was used to winning so copping a few big losses can bring in a 2nd guessing situation

But by the sounds of it, we are sticking with the new game plan for the season

I reckon we'll kick into gear at some stage and when that happens, everything can change for the better. Or it may not

One thing is for sure, we were never going to win big again playing the long ball to the pockets

So we had to take a chance and change

The fact that we haven't seen it doesn't mean we won't see it, sooner or later

11 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

🤔For starters 😉👍

Ha ha!

What about all the assistants, bub?

Revealed on Fox Footy that if we pay him out before end of his deal (2026) then we have to pay 100% of his remaining salary. Could be anywhere between 1.5-2 million. This would be included in the cap spend for football department spend meaning we'd likely have to pay a luxury tax of 75 cents for every dollar over up to a million, which would be likely given we'd have to pay good coin to get a half decent coach in. Club heavily scrutinised because most coached only have a 3-6 month payout clause. Goodwin has a full contract payout clause.

So basically... unless he resigns we'll be with him for a while. I couldn't see us justifying that payout unless they have a good coach lined up.

21 minutes ago, Macca said:

So if I ask you to catch a beach ball and you drop it, that's my fault? Your argument lacks logic

Do you also want to blame Goodwin for world hunger?

And Goodwin just dropped JVR & Fritsch. You and many others were calling for their heads so you should be happy

He can't drop all the underperformers at once, but he's at least made a start

Reminds me of the notorious poster here who blamed the players for 186 but wants to sack Goodwin if it happened again

Hypocrisy... alive and well amongst footy fans

By the way, the players looked to me like they were protesting in the last 4 games

Let's see if they've got any self-respect today hey?

Using your own logic If i ask you to catch a beach ball and you can't or you refuse to do it why would you continue to ask that player to do it?

If i say to Viney don't bomb the ball to the fwd 50 and he keeps doing it , it is 100% Goodwin's fault for continuing to play him in that role.

Goodwin killed petty's career by continuing to play him in the fwd line in 2024

He's on his way to killing JVRs career

2 minutes ago, praha said:

Revealed on Fox Footy that if we pay him out before end of his deal (2026) then we have to pay 100% of his remaining salary. Could be anywhere between 1.5-2 million. This would be included in the cap spend for football department spend meaning we'd likely have to pay a luxury tax of 75 cents for every dollar over up to a million, which would be likely given we'd have to pay good coin to get a half decent coach in. Club heavily scrutinised because most coached only have a 3-6 month payout clause. Goodwin has a full contract payout clause.

So basically... unless he resigns we'll be with him for a while. I couldn't see us justifying that payout unless they have a good coach lined up.

Adam Simpson was the comparison provided - had the same clause, which led to West Coast keeping him through 2023 and for 16 rounds in 2024 before finally parting ways.

Also compared with Ratten and Dew, who had 6 month payout clauses.

You're reading the "heavily scrutinised" bit into the report though. I'd be keen to know what other clubs have with their coaches - Ratten and Dew were unproven, Simpson was a premiership winning coach like Goodwin. If the likes of Fagan, Chris Scott, McRae, Clarkson and Hardwick have full payout clauses too, then we're just victims of the senior coaching market.

1 minute ago, jnrmac said:

Using your own logic If i ask you to catch a beach ball and you can't or you refuse to do it why would you continue to ask that player to do it?

If i say to Viney don't bomb the ball to the fwd 50 and he keeps doing it , it is 100% Goodwin's fault for continuing to play him in that role.

Goodwin killed petty's career by continuing to play him in the fwd line in 2024

He's on his way to killing JVRs career

Well, taking them out of their role if they fail to carry out instructions is a good point

So I've got Sparrow & Viney out of the team as both offer nothing much right now

But Fritsch & JVR were offering very little and both got dropped. So a good proportion here got what we wanted but that now means our forward line is threadbare

So there's always a consequence and we have no real depth

Fritsch is at the crossroads and JVR is overrated. He can't create seperation like good forwards do

Maybe as the 3rd tall but he's not a 1 or 2. He may improve of course but he needs to