9 minutes ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

What would you do with Oliver, Viney and Sparrow?

Oliver plays for now and Viney & Sparrow can play at Casey

Long term, maybe all 3 go elsewhere but the contracts save them

6 minutes ago, Macca said:

Refer to our training in the summer

Do you need me to navigate you or are you able to do your own research?

In other words, start looking a bit deeper

And for those of us who have circumstances preventing us from attending Gosch's Paddock on weekdays?

Your obtuse response just demonstrates how little you have to go on to back up your points.

Happy to end our discussion.

10 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Goodwin's always been a system coach though. His system is past it's used by date and he hasn't been able to pivot to a new style that has brought success.

There may be an element of player disillusionment but I think placing all th blame at the feet of the players is unfair. This is not comparable to the Neeld list where it would be tough to find more than a couple of players who would make another sides 22. We still have a list of hardened AFL standard players who are underperforming. Part of that may be form (for whatever reason) but a large part is the system they are working to which is on Goodwin and his assistants. We can get the ball and move it from D50 to F50 but our forward half work is diabolical. That to me is a coaching issue. We are also getting killed around stoppages when that has always been a strength with the players we have in there. Again that is a coaching issue.

It's a player issue, Gonzo

They refuse to buy in out of pure laziness

Overpayed, underworked and lazy

1 hour ago, Macca said:

I'm on the side of the coach as the players are bludging

Freeloaders & coach killers

I don't think they are bludging Macca, there is still effort it's just getting them little reward. This can be demoralising and lead to fade outs in games once you see the game has slipped away.

8 minutes ago, KozzyCan said:

This thread is literally about the coach.

Yes but you've not noticed the question mark with the topic name?

That means we can talk about everything connected to the coach

Including the coach killers ... the players

On 15/04/2025 at 10:02, mo64 said:

The primary role of a coach is to get the best out of the players, so it is on Goodwin. Our gameplan hasn't changed since 2021. Our mids have always bombed it long, even in 2021.

The players are devoid of confidence, and it's all on Goodwin. Under a new coach, I can see us turning things around, provided that we keep all our top end talent. If Goodwin stays, I fear that we'll have a mass exodus.

100 percent correct!

7 minutes ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

@Macca i know you’ve got a few conversations on the go but you are not replying to some of the comments that show your argument to be flawed. Reminds me of another poster who is never wrong.

You just don't like what I've got to say or my tone

And I am not wrong... the players are bludging. Do you not watch our games?

Trying to discredit me won't work as there are many who actually agree with me (but they are steering clear, for now)

In fact, what I'm saying has already been said by many

Not everyone wants to just blame the coach

23 minutes ago, Macca said:

Goodwin is not the head recruiter

So this year he has been handed a list of duds who can't (or won't) adopt a new game plan

The players are a lazy lot

Don't let them off the hook by just blaming the coach

They are getting paid $Millions to underperform

The head recruiter is told what the coach wants and does his best to recruit them.
The coach decides who gets to run onto the ground.
And by your argument he's been allowing these lazy buggers to run onto the ground.
1st game against GWS we had 5 debutants and gave them a run for their money due to their enthusiasm that the older blokes fed off.
The list is far too comfortable knowing even if they just trot around half arzed they'll still be gettin' a game next week cause a few years ago they won a flag.
As Barassi once said. " if given the choice of a bloke with talent or a goer, I'll take the goer every time."

Edited April 18Apr 18 by Fork 'em

8 minutes ago, Pirlo said:

And for those of us who have circumstances preventing us from attending Gosch's Paddock on weekdays?

Your obtuse response just demonstrates how little you have to go on to back up your points.

Happy to end our discussion.

Read the training reports

And trying to discredit me is typical of your type. You just don't like a counter argument

What's your argument? Sack the coach?

Low IQ stuff

And there is nothing obtuse about what I'm saying. In fact, I could not be more forthright

But you'll get your wish. Goodwin will probably get the boot

12 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I don't think they are bludging Macca, there is still effort it's just getting them little reward. This can be demoralising and lead to fade outs in games once you see the game has slipped away.

They are not gut running or running to position. Lazy and unaccountable

Playing selfish and no real teamwork. Bludging

Look at how Collingwood play. Total team where as we are anti team

You're in denial, Gonzo

33 minutes ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

They’d be a few coaches in waiting sitting back saying to themselves I could do a lot with this list.

There’d be more coaches sitting back saying thar payer could add a lot to team going forward he’s being wasted at Melbourne.

its been my view that this list has been criminally overrated on here. That's another matter. More importantly No body obviously can explain in simple terms what the game plan is. Is there a lucid easily explained gameplan or not?

So JVR is soft and we should jettison Rivers. This is going to be some great reading after today’s rout.

1 minute ago, Macca said:

They are not gut running or running to position. Lazy and unaccountable

Playing selfish and no real teamwork. Bludging

Look at how Collingwood play. Total team where as we are anti team

You're in denial, Gonzo

Well I'll keep an eye on it at the ground today. I agree there is lack of movement when we have the ball at a free kick/mark across half back but I still see gut running and contest it's just not getting them anywhere.

Anyhow I will watch with interest today and we can reconvene the discussion later 😁

8 minutes ago, Fork 'em said:

The head recruiter is told what the coach wants and does his best to recruit them.
The coach decides who gets to run onto the ground.
And by your argument he's been allowing these lazy buggers to run onto the ground.
1st game against GWS we had 5 debutants and gave them a run for their money due to their enthusiasm that the older blokes fed off.
The list is far too comfortable knowing even if they just trot around half arzed they'll still be gettin' a game next week cause a few years ago they won a flag.
As Barassi once said. " if given the choice of a bloke with talent or a goer, I'll take the goer every time."

I'm just trying to square the ledger

To lay the blame at Goodwin's feet is not only wrong & unfair, it's lazy analysis

As lazy as our team right now

There's no magic wand ... the only way to get out of this mess is for the players to wake up to themselves

If they need a coach to hold their hands, they can P.O.

Right now, the team is playing soft, bruise-free football and that's on the players, not the coach

18 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Kick it through the big sticks more than the opposition does 😜

Thanks i reckon that will work!

3 minutes ago, Macca said:

You just don't like what I've got to say or my tone

And I am not wrong... the players are bludging. Do you not watch our games?

Trying to discredit me won't work as there are many who actually agree with me (but they are steering clear, for now)

In fact, what I'm saying has already been said by many

Not everyone wants to just blame the coach

I don’t agree with what you’re saying but I have no issue with it nor with your tone. I’ve actually agreed with a lot of your posts over the years.

I wasn’t trying to discredit you just merely pointing out you’ve replied to all of my posts bar 1 or 2. The ones when I questioned your statement that “the players aren’t playing to the gameplan”. Footage was shown during the week of examples of Viney & Oliver constantly ignoring outside running options instead opting for the long bomb down the line. If I’m waiting on the out side for a handball receive and constantly getting ignored I’m thinking to myself why bother. If I’m JVR or Fritsch constantly playing in a congested fwd 50 and being expected to work miracles from a footy that constantly gets bombed in I’m thinking why bother.

Best example I can give you is the Bulldogs, JUH is an entitled player not doing the team thing and has been dealt with accordingly by the coach / club. I’m guessing Oliver’s issues didn’t come over night but crept along and were ignored ti some extent by the coach / club until they blew out of proportion, remember the 9 week hamstring. This has a flow on effect to the playing group. Footy starts in the middle of the ground and Oliver & Viney are two of the biggest culprits of not playing to this new gameplan yet remain selected while others get dropped, that is a coaching issue. If Goodwin thinks that Fritsch’s and JVR’S problems are nothing to do with the the quality of entry into the fwd 50 he shouldn’t be coaching today.

I’ve got to finish vacuuming the house before the wife gets home or I’ll be shot.

Sorry forgot to add although the Dogs have dropped some games look at the way they play considering the personal they’ve had out. No excuses from them at all.

Edited April 18Apr 18 by Bombay Airconditioning

1 minute ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Well I'll keep an eye on it at the ground today. I agree there is lack of movement when we have the ball at a free kick/mark across half back but I still see gut running and contest it's just not getting them anywhere.

Anyhow I will watch with interest today and we can reconvene the discussion later 😁

We need to share the ball at high speed whilst gaining territory (and don't kick it to contests)

We don't do that yet that is what the modern demands of football requires

So why aren't we doing what we're supposed to be doing? The simple answer is there is no buy-in

What I'm saying should be obvious to everyone but once the coach is in the gun, the players get off the hook

Coach killers

3 minutes ago, Macca said:

I'm just trying to square the ledger

To lay the blame at Goodwin's feet is not only wrong & unfair, it's lazy analysis

As lazy as our team right now

There's no magic wand ... the only way to get out of this mess is for the players to wake up to themselves

If they need a coach to hold their hands, they can P.O.

Right now, the team is playing soft, bruise-free football and that's on the players, not the coach

So genuine question Macca, what do you see as Goodwin's role in all this then?

This isn't just a this year thing, this has been the last 20 or so games.

1 hour ago, Macca said:

Yeah now, but not then

Since then, those players keeping Bedford & Jordon out of the side have lost form

Wrong.

We brought Hunter in to play the wing role which resulted in Jordon being pushed out of the side. Hunter is now playing suburban football with a bunch of mates while Jordon is flourishing.

Jordon had consolidated his spot in the team until Goodwin and the brain thrust thought it was a good idea to bring Hunter in and stifle Jordons development.

That's 100% on Goodwin and Tim Lamb.

We left Befdord out of the team in 2022 because we continued to play an out of form and slow Spargo and gave him zero accountability to send him back to the VFL to find form. Yet, nothing has changed.. again 100% on Goodwin.

Bedford was playing as a sub majority of the time in 2022. By the 2nd half of 2022 our whole team was physically cooked because Goodwin refused to manage or rotate players in the team due to form and fitness and stuck with the same 22 for majority of that time.

That is 100% on Goodwin.

Edited April 18Apr 18 by dazzledavey36

Goodwin gets to choose his coaching staff , some selections is not what other clubs would do. If you were a Langford would you take notice of a Nathan Jones as you mid coach ?

We are not the only team to have coach killers in their team and will not be the last. Goody may get sacked soon so what. Supporters do have the right to complain as we are not a successful and a destination club.

Hawthorn have been the most successful club since 1960 which they won 12 flags (one in every five years).

Did anyone hear on the radio Gawn having a meeting with Smith( future president ) ?

1 minute ago, Macca said:

We need to share the ball at high speed whilst gaining territory (and don't kick it to contests)

We don't do that yet that is what the modern demands of football requires

So why aren't we doing what we're supposed to be doing? The simple answer is there is no buy-in

What I'm saying should be obvious to everyone but once the coach is in the gun, the players get off the hook

Coach killers

You're assuming that is what Goodwin is coaching them to do when all the evidence over his career is to the contrary. Goodwin wants them kicking to contests as a he is a conservative coach and kicking to contests gives him greater control allowing us to minimise turnovers etc.

I find it unfathomable that players would just continually kick to contests, bomb it inside 50 etc and forwards would sit back wrestling with their opponents and bunching together in packs instead of spreading out and leading towards the ball carrier if they weren't coached to do so.

Can't question effort.

What i do question is the players looking completely bereft of confidence and confused out on the field. They look zapped of confidence and there is simply no enjoyment out there.

This is due to the confused game plan Goodwin has implemented on top of the perplexing team selection each week.

All of this is 100% on the coach and no one else. Anyone who thinks otherwise have their head in the sand and is fairly delusional.

The sooner the change is made, the better for this playing group moving forward.

2 minutes ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

I don’t agree with what you’re saying but I have no issue with it nor with your tone. I’ve actually agreed with a lot of your posts over the years.

I wasn’t trying to discredit you just merely pointing out you’ve replied to all of my posts bar 1 or 2. The ones when I questioned your statement that “the players aren’t playing to the gameplan”. Footage was shown during the week of examples of Viney & Oliver constantly ignoring outside running options instead opting for the long bomb down the line. If I’m waiting on the out side for a handball receive and constantly getting ignored I’m thinking to myself why bother. If I’m JVR or Fritsch constantly playing in a congested fwd 50 and being expected to work miracles from a footy that constantly gets bombed in I’m thinking why bother.

Best example I can give you is the Bulldogs, JUH is an entitled player not doing the team thing and has been dealt with accordingly by the coach / club. I’m guessing Oliver’s issues didn’t come over night but crept along and were ignored ti some extent by the coach / club until they blew out of proportion, remember the 9 week hamstring. This has a flow on effect to the playing group. Footy starts in the middle of the ground and Oliver & Viney are two of the biggest culprits of not playing to this new gameplan yet remain selected while others get dropped, that is a coaching issue. If Goodwin thinks that Fritsch’s and JVR’S problems are nothing to do with the the quality of entry into the fwd 50 he shouldn’t be coaching today.

I’ve got to finish vacuuming the house before the wife gets home or I’ll be shot.

I stand by what I'm saying

The players have not bought in to the new game plan and we've been left behind

All summer we trained for it and the club has also talked about it a lot but we are not seeing it

My concern is that we sack Goodwin and then what? An interim coach with another game plan? Not going to work as footy is a lot more complicated these days

All weaknesses are exploited

Yes, we could keep getting smashed but that's going to be on the players, not the coaching

Overpaid, underworked & lazy. The players need to wake up to themselves

We should not have to hold their hands

8 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

So genuine question Macca, what do you see as Goodwin's role in all this then?

This isn't just a this year thing, this has been the last 20 or so games.

He didn't learn how to not coach overnight

His record speaks for itself until ... we decided to change the game plan (a gutsy move and high risk)

So it's all very good until it wasn't ... the players haven't bought in, it's as simple as that

The fix isn't easy as the coach nearly always cops it first

By the way, with a decent forward line we win the 2023 flag. So Goodwin should be a dual premiership coach (but for injuries)

14 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Wrong.

We brought Hunter in to play the wing role which resulted in Jordon being pushed out of the side. Hunter is now playing suburban football with a bunch of mates while Jordon is flourishing.

Jordon had consolidated his spot in the team until Goodwin and the brain thrust thought it was a good idea to bring Hunter in and stifle Jordons development.

That's 100% on Goodwin and Tim Lamb.

We left Befford out of the team in 2022 because we continued to play an out of form and slow Spargo and gave him zero accountability to send him back to the VFL to find form. Yet, nothing has changed.. again 100% on Goodwin.

Bedford was playing as a sub majority of the time in 2022. By the 2nd half of 2022 our whole team was physically cooked because Goodwin refused to manage or rotate players in the team due to form and fitness and stuck with the same 22 for majority of that time.

That is 100% on Goodwin.

Rubbish

Jordon and Bedford hadn't done much when they were with us and were surplus to needs

In fact, both sought trades for more opportunities. Fair enough too, it's not a perfect world

You are stuck in the past