28 minutes ago, Adam The God said:

I also found it interesting that he spoke strongly of defence.

I just wonder if they're going to tweak things to be a little more defensive.

I'd be favour of this.

We can't score, so we may as well try and restrict the ball movement and score of the opposition.

That will be the next trend in the modern game, we know we're very good at this, let's lean into it. But when we get the chance to slingshot, let's make it count.

If we're lucky it will help us lose 40-60 instead of 60-90.

21 minutes ago, Supermercado said:

If we're lucky it will help us lose 40-60 instead of 60-90.

Sadly this is pretty much how I'm approaching this game.

Can we a) actually give a decent account of ourselves and play something kinda resembling footy.

b) just stink it up !!

Heretic to say, but I don't really care whether we can or might win. It's gone beyond that now. Can we not embarass ourselves out there.

Seeing Luke Hodge’s brief but scathing analysis on Agenda Setters of our forward play against Essendon just does my head in. It was admittedly, a small sample size of vision from behind the goals of our F50 entries. Examples of midfielders getting the ball at 70m, in space but just booting to an out numbered forward, ignoring running players clear in the corridor or forwards not leading to space to provide a target. As Hodge said this is under 12’s stuff and it’s not AFL standard but it’s been the same for 4 years! You would see better forward strategy (if not execution) at your local suburban ground with part time players and coach.

Meanwhile Simon seems to talking about our need to improve our defending to stifle the opposition’s ball movement, which is very difficult to do against sides moving the ball as quickly and precisely as Brisbane, Collingwood, Hawthorn and (no doubt we will find out this week) Freo, especially if you are not scoring.

46 minutes ago, Adam The God said:

I also found it interesting that he spoke strongly of defence.

I just wonder if they're going to tweak things to be a little more defensive.

I'd be favour of this.

We can't score, so we may as well try and restrict the ball movement and score of the opposition.

That will be the next trend in the modern game, we know we're very good at this, let's lean into it. But when we get the chance to slingshot, let's make it count.

If we are fair dinkum and all-in on this new type of offense, we'll need to learn how to defend against a fast paced offense

And the other teams need to be able to defend against our fast paced offense (when and if that happens)

There can't be any half-measures by trying to hang on to some of the past ... and that might explain why a number of our players look perplexed & confused)

So fast paced and often through the corridor whilst maintaining possession

And not be too concerned about turning the ball over ... we turn the ball over anyway and all the other teams turn the ball over as well (to varying degrees)

For instance, there were 137 turnovers in the Sydney vs Collingwood game and that type of figure is across all the matches

In a lot of the neutral games I've witnessed this season, there's been any number of sling-shot games. Back & forth and end to end

IMV, the issue for us is a lack of a buy-in by a number of our players coupled with a coach who previously is/was one of the best defensive coaches going around

Mixed messages is what it looks like but that doesn't have to be a permanent thing

We only need to get it right a couple of times to see a much bigger buy-in. And then we're off and running

Let's not forget that we still have a very talented list (albeit a list that is not performing very well)

But a number of our players might not be able to change, so there's sure to be some casualties

Regardless, I can see the club being very busy at the trade table in order to have a bigger list that can play the modern brand (unless we go on a super-run, this season ... unlikely)

Edited April 16Apr 16 by Macca

29 minutes ago, BoBo said:

But didn’t we do this exact thing last year? Return to defensive play to mitigate scoring and thus just lessen the amount we’d lose by? Unless I’m misunderstanding what you mean

(Our pressure on the opposition has to increase BIG TIME across the ground.)

We did this last year minus a brilliant Trac and a half fit Clarry.

We lost to eventual prelim finalist Port by 2 points. We lost to eventual semi finalist GWS by 2 points. And we lost to the eventual premier Brisbane by 5 points (in Brisbane, where very few away sides win) after a dodging free kick was awarded near the death.

We've overcorrected. And the way to beat the modern game will be the defence first game that is able to slow ball movement and beat up teams at the contest. We were experts at this for 2-3 years.

IMV, we need the play the game style that is something akin to the start of last year, but with more aggressive forward handball (see Round 1), and play to the strengths of our midfield bulls (and our defenders), and help out those poor ball users by having good ball users around them (McVee, Salem, Bowey, Lindsay, Langford, Windsor).

Fitness has a huge question mark above it, because to play as well that way, we need to be able to run out four quarters, which we show no sign of doing. But this is what we should do. Do I have faith in Goody being able to revert to this and get the players playing to this vision? That's a different answer.

Just now, Earl Hood said:

Seeing Luke Hodge’s brief but scathing analysis on Agenda Setters of our forward play against Essendon just does my head in. It was admittedly, a small sample size of vision from behind the goals of our F50 entries. Examples of midfielders getting the ball at 70m, in space but just booting to an out numbered forward, ignoring running players clear in the corridor or forwards not leading to space to provide a target. As Hodge said this is under 12’s stuff and it’s not AFL standard but it’s been the same for 4 years! You would see better forward strategy (if not execution) at your local suburban ground with part time players and coach.

Meanwhile Simon seems to talking about our need to improve our defending to stifle the opposition’s ball movement, which is very difficult to do against sides moving the ball as quickly and precisely as Brisbane, Collingwood, Hawthorn and (no doubt we will find out this week) Freo, especially if you are not scoring.

You actually touch upon the , for mine, most important tenet. Is that we don't seem to be really attempting to play an AFL level style of game.

We won 21 with a British Bulldog 1 2,3 gung ho scrum like tenacity. Even then it would never work for 4 qtrs. We had a run of games where it prevailed.

We don't really for all the rhetoric, pressers, mumbo jumbo holds hands sing-alongs have evolved too far from this.

We still suffing around with DOS and others are using AI

We've got 0 footy intelligence. It's scary tbh

Back in the real world we are staring at 0-6 unless the new game plan and player attitude changes in the space of a few days. We have our backs to the wall

On 13/04/2025 at 18:43, Red and Blue Flame said:

This is all rubbish.

The interview was actually Bickley saying he ran into Goody and that Goody was very confident about things going into the Dons game.

Not a Goodwin fan but there is zero chance Bickley would publish that kind comment from Goodwin. Total BS

54 minutes ago, Adam The God said:

We did this last year minus a brilliant Trac and a half fit Clarry.

We lost to eventual prelim finalist Port by 2 points. We lost to eventual semi finalist GWS by 2 points. And we lost to the eventual premier Brisbane by 5 points (in Brisbane, where very few away sides win) after a dodging free kick was awarded near the death.

We've overcorrected. And the way to beat the modern game will be the defence first game that is able to slow ball movement and beat up teams at the contest. We were experts at this for 2-3 years.

IMV, we need the play the game style that is something akin to the start of last year, but with more aggressive forward handball (see Round 1), and play to the strengths of our midfield bulls (and our defenders), and help out those poor ball users by having good ball users around them (McVee, Salem, Bowey, Lindsay, Langford, Windsor).

Fitness has a huge question mark above it, because to play as well that way, we need to be able to run out four quarters, which we show no sign of doing. But this is what we should do. Do I have faith in Goody being able to revert to this and get the players playing to this vision? That's a different answer.

This is why Goodwin has to go. We are clueless with ball in hand. He's had years to fix it. He can't do it

15 hours ago, Abyssal said:

In other words,

We’re just not good enough.

We had 16 premiership players against the Bombers. Talent is not our issue.

It can't be any more obvious that it's coaching, selection, leadership, pride, fight

5 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

We had 16 premiership players against the Bombers. Talent is not our issue.

It can't be any more obvious that it's coaching, selection, leadership, pride, fight

Fitness

17 hours ago, bing181 said:

Not enough time.

And there's a limit to what you can do with changing a game plan without there being a real change in the people who have to implement it, i.e., the list. You want more outside run? You don't try and turn your inside bulls into outside runners, you bring outside runners into the club.

The draftees we've got in will help accelerate the process, but it's going to be a rough year.

You make it sound like they're splitting the atom. Defending the indefensible

It's not that hard and you're explanation doesn't cover the fact we cant tackle, ignore easy hit up options, crowd the contest, drop chest marks, don't chase, don'tspread, miss set shots. Football basics

Some of our issues go back 3 years. Oh it's soooo hard.

Too much koolaid for you I'm afraid

1 hour ago, beelzebub said:

Sadly this is pretty much how I'm approaching this game.

Can we a) actually give a decent account of ourselves and play something kinda resembling footy.

b) just stink it up !!

Heretic to say, but I don't really care whether we can or might win. It's gone beyond that now. Can we not embarass ourselves out there.

Freo has flogged us in every game for the last 3 years through constant ball movement and running in numbers. I would be happy for a competitive game and signs we have learnt to negate their strengths. Not optimistic though.

3 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Fitness

No i dont believe that. It may look like that but i think their frustration sees them give up in last qtrs.

Pressure rating is shizen

Just now, jnrmac said:

No i dont believe that. It may look like that but i think their frustration sees them give up in last qtrs.

Pressure rating is shizen

I reckon there's a lot to this. Hard to will yourself 100% to that next contest.... when you know the game's already done.

Between the ears stuff

2 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

No i dont believe that. It may look like that but i think their frustration sees them give up in last qtrs.

Pressure rating is shizen

Not fit enough. Mind and Body

1 minute ago, beelzebub said:

I reckon there's a lot to this. Hard to will yourself 100% to that next contest.... when you know the game's already done.

Between the ears stuff

You don’t let the game get to that level

The Fitness and High Performance is not AFL Level

Just now, Sir Why You Little said:

Not fit enough. Mind and Body

Ahhh M & B ;)

Just now, Sir Why You Little said:

You don’t let the game get to that level

The Fitness and High Performance is not AFL Level

You can be as fit as all buggery... but if you're running the wrong way , in the wrong style.. matters nought.

1 hour ago, Earl Hood said:

Seeing Luke Hodge’s brief but scathing analysis on Agenda Setters of our forward play against Essendon just does my head in. It was admittedly, a small sample size of vision from behind the goals of our F50 entries. Examples of midfielders getting the ball at 70m, in space but just booting to an out numbered forward, ignoring running players clear in the corridor or forwards not leading to space to provide a target. As Hodge said this is under 12’s stuff and it’s not AFL standard but it’s been the same for 4 years! You would see better forward strategy (if not execution) at your local suburban ground with part time players and coach.

Meanwhile Simon seems to talking about our need to improve our defending to stifle the opposition’s ball movement, which is very difficult to do against sides moving the ball as quickly and precisely as Brisbane, Collingwood, Hawthorn and (no doubt we will find out this week) Freo, especially if you are not scoring.

Thank you. I was beginning to doubt I knew anything about footy, finding a team mate, kicking to a lead, kicking to space. Is this all ego stuff that the culprits get a disposal count no matter where it goes, and metres gained. Or is it worse they don’t want lesser lights shining? It’s been going on for years now. Fritta the worst culprit for not being a team player

1 hour ago, Adam The God said:

We did this last year minus a brilliant Trac and a half fit Clarry.

We lost to eventual prelim finalist Port by 2 points. We lost to eventual semi finalist GWS by 2 points. And we lost to the eventual premier Brisbane by 5 points (in Brisbane, where very few away sides win) after a dodging free kick was awarded near the death.

We've overcorrected. And the way to beat the modern game will be the defence first game that is able to slow ball movement and beat up teams at the contest. We were experts at this for 2-3 years.

IMV, we need the play the game style that is something akin to the start of last year, but with more aggressive forward handball (see Round 1), and play to the strengths of our midfield bulls (and our defenders), and help out those poor ball users by having good ball users around them (McVee, Salem, Bowey, Lindsay, Langford, Windsor).

Fitness has a huge question mark above it, because to play as well that way, we need to be able to run out four quarters, which we show no sign of doing. But this is what we should do. Do I have faith in Goody being able to revert to this and get the players playing to this vision? That's a different answer.

Perhaps. The counter-argument is that players may not want to play this way, that they are sick and tired of defence and contest; by being continually banged up and stifled.

Contest and defence method was brutal on teh players. Perhaps there is a middle ground here where we look to contest and defense as part of the phase without the ball, but then develop our turnover & ball movement game with the ball, which has actually improved.

21 hours ago, Benny Dee said:

I actually liked Goodwins press conference today.

I acknowledge we are doing terrible, and his time is probably at an end.

But I am expecting us to respond, we are playing way below ourselves at the moment. (mind you i have been saying this the past 3 weeks 😅)

One win could get the monkey off the back, free the shackles and build a bit of confidence.

I still have confidence that Goody can turn this season around. While time is running out to be able to play finals I reckon we will be playing really strong footy in the second half of the season.

For those agitating for change now I'd implore you to hang fire, as there are enough vultures in the media without our supporters piling on, and let the season run its course.

23 minutes ago, GS_1905 said:

Perhaps. The counter-argument is that players may not want to play this way, that they are sick and tired of defence and contest; by being continually banged up and stifled.

Contest and defence method was brutal on teh players. Perhaps there is a middle ground here where we look to contest and defense as part of the phase without the ball, but then develop our turnover & ball movement game with the ball, which has actually improved.

I think it's pretty obvious that our best players are suited to this style and not suited to the fast offensive, precise ball movement game.

You coach to the list you've got and you tweak the game style as you evolve your list.

2 hours ago, Earl Hood said:

Seeing Luke Hodge’s brief but scathing analysis on Agenda Setters of our forward play against Essendon just does my head in. It was admittedly, a small sample size of vision from behind the goals of our F50 entries. Examples of midfielders getting the ball at 70m, in space but just booting to an out numbered forward, ignoring running players clear in the corridor or forwards not leading to space to provide a target. As Hodge said this is under 12’s stuff and it’s not AFL standard but it’s been the same for 4 years! You would see better forward strategy (if not execution) at your local suburban ground with part time players and coach.

Meanwhile Simon seems to talking about our need to improve our defending to stifle the opposition’s ball movement, which is very difficult to do against sides moving the ball as quickly and precisely as Brisbane, Collingwood, Hawthorn and (no doubt we will find out this week) Freo, especially if you are not scoring.

We were masters at this only 2 seasons ago.

24 minutes ago, Adam The God said:

I think it's pretty obvious that our best players are suited to this style and not suited to the fast offensive, precise ball movement game.

You coach to the list you've got and you tweak the game style as you evolve your list.

Yes however our best players are excellent extractors and I would of thought there was now enough decent runners and kickers to be able to move the ball intelligently into F50. The problem is they are either coached to grab and kick or are simply ignoring other options because the vision shows the options are often there. Viney and Oliver should be flat out banned from kicking and both need to start running harder both ways. With Oliver, Viney, Petracca, Langford extracting and Gawn in the ruck we should be winning clearances and be able to get the ball to the outside. On the weekend we had 16 centre square clearances for a score of 1 point. That's laughable and simply has to be fixed this week. Watching Petracca storm out of the centre and fluff the kick and then watch Essendon run the ball the entire ground to have May drop a sitter and they score seriously made me want to switch to a romcom. We didn't need to drop out contest and defence we just needed to use handball to runners or kicks to open the corridor. It's not that complicated a game but without effort, contest, harassing the opposition and fierce tackling we may as well not show up. You only needed to watch PA thrash Hawthorn to know how to do it.