On 07/10/2024 at 05:12, old dee said:

Spot on. We need a replacement for Gus and a KPF who can give us 30 goals for the season. It ain't the two backmen we are currently using. 

I agree old dee

Turner might be a handy 3rd or 4th forward but sooner or later we are going to need Petty to go the backline you'd reckon

In an ideal world we bring in a decent KPF to complement JVR ... but I see Van Rooyen as more of a CHF type, roaming about.  He has a lot more versatility than a stay at home, FF

But here's the problem ... how do we get hold of a KPF who can play deep forward? (with real presence like a Ben Brown)

As a stop-gap measure, could we use T-Mac deep forward? (if Petty goes back)

As for replacing Gus, that's a toughie

Versatile with a physical presence and decent in the air across the back of the midfield  As well as a prolific ball winner who used the ball reasonably well

A big bodied high impact midfielder in the draft?  Do we need to move up from pick 5 to get such a player? 

One thing is for sure, we need to strengthen our midfield as there are more than a couple of question marks in that area

As for Goodwin, he needs a stronger list and he needs to tweak our game style with a more attacking mindset. Back ourselves like Brisbane has into using the corridor to good effect ... not always, but we need to mix things up and change things up

  On 06/10/2024 at 22:41, Fat Tony said:

I have come to realise how lucky we are to have Goodwin. One of our superstars has ADHD and addictive tendencies. And another is self centred. And neither of them can regularly hit a target inside 50. The whole playing group could have easily fractured and turned on each other with a poorer coach.

Excellent post 

If it was just one player and not the other it would be a difficult thing to manage given the level of talent (a way lesser player might or would be dispensed with) 

But both?  And both are arguably our best 2 players.  Very difficult and the coach would need masterful man management skills to get both back on track ... as well as managing the rest of the list

Both are on huge contracts to a point that makes both almost untradeable.  

Goodwin has the job ahead of him and I wish him well.  I just hope he gets the right support in terms of managing the situation

So those wanting Goodwin out are going to replace him with who?  That new coach would inherit the same, said issue ... it would be like walking into a minefield 

  On 07/10/2024 at 07:58, Monbon said:

The Demons made finals in 98, 2000, 2002, 2004, 2005, 2006: To make finals so often with a substandard list can only have substance in the minds of the Crank Franks of the world.

Bon Ami you argue just like Christian apologists.

Every time you get pantsed on a specific point you just ignore it & move on to another irrelevancy.

To summarise your arguments

1. You believe Daniher had as much talent available as Goodwin

2. There's not much difference in talent between Lever/May & Collins/Nicholson.

A simple yes/no will suffice.

 

  On 07/10/2024 at 08:16, binman said:

Cranky doesn't do irony.

Eg, "i won't even mention this year's debacles against West Coast & Freo"

Do they think they're writing in invisible pixels?

I won't even mention how hilarious i find their posts.

Pure comedy gold.

I actually do a lot of irony but its wasted on Americans & on Demonland.

  On 07/10/2024 at 00:07, Fuchsias Forever said:

Simon "Straight Sets" Goodwin....

Yep, and IF, we start 2025 with say a 4 loss 2 win after round 6????? 

  On 07/10/2024 at 14:05, Cranky Franky said:

I actually do a lot of irony but its wasted on Americans & on Demonland.

Pro tip cranky - stick to the unintentional comedy.

  On 07/10/2024 at 14:03, Cranky Franky said:

Bon Ami you argue just like Christian apologists.

Every time you get pantsed on a specific point you just ignore it & move on to another irrelevancy.

To summarise your arguments

1. You believe Daniher had as much talent available as Goodwin

2. There's not much difference in talent between Lever/May & Collins/Nicholson.

A simple yes/no will suffice.

 

No and who competes with 

Maxy (JW) he was young no way. 
Trac ?

Clarry ?

That’s why Goody won a flag and The Rev didn’t but no shame on his record. 

 

  On 07/10/2024 at 12:19, Macca said:

I agree old dee

Turner might be a handy 3rd or 4th forward but sooner or later we are going to need Petty to go the backline you'd reckon

In an ideal world we bring in a decent KPF to complement JVR ... but I see Van Rooyen as more of a CHF type, roaming about.  He has a lot more versatility than a stay at home, FF

But here's the problem ... how do we get hold of a KPF who can play deep forward? (with real presence like a Ben Brown)

As a stop-gap measure, could we use T-Mac deep forward? (if Petty goes back)

As for replacing Gus, that's a toughie

Versatile with a physical presence and decent in the air across the back of the midfield  As well as a prolific ball winner who used the ball reasonably well

A big bodied high impact midfielder in the draft?  Do we need to move up from pick 5 to get such a player? 

One thing is for sure, we need to strengthen our midfield as there are more than a couple of question marks in that area

As for Goodwin, he needs a stronger list and he needs to tweak our game style with a more attacking mindset. Back ourselves like Brisbane has into using the corridor to good effect ... not always, but we need to mix things up and change things up

OLD DEE and MACCA 

some points I agree with you. 
Goody and game plan needs speeding up and aggression based on Lions pace and chaos. 
Others such as :

” a forward who kicks 30 goals” we already have one JVR.  And he rucks 20% of the time not too bad.

Yes JVR 40 goals plus Disco to 30 goals and Petty 30/50 depending upon form or fitness.
And Fritta can go back to 50 plus Kossie 40 plus if we change our plan plus both go a bigger level.  Kolt may also improve quickly and The Duke 15/20 are all possible. All might not happen but that’s got to be a template. 

  On 07/10/2024 at 05:12, old dee said:

Spot on. We need a replacement for Gus and a KPF who can give us 30 goals for the season. It ain't the two backmen we are currently using. 

JVR says Hi   Old Dee. 

I’m no expert in game plans but the one we perfected for 21 could have easily netted us another flag in 23 bar a shocking injury and some poor kicking for goal and this whole thread would be moot. Anyway here we are watching Brisbane play and everyone’s saying we’ve got to play like that. I’d actually like to see us play a style that suits our strengths and back ourselves to beat the others. Sure I hope it involves some more attacking moves which is why Houston was in the radar. I’m trusting JT to bring in some plug and play talent to go with Windsor and others to push us forward. I’m not as confident about 25 as I was but hopefully the noise goes away and we can get back to business. 

  On 07/10/2024 at 21:15, 58er said:

JVR says Hi   Old Dee. 

I should said in addition. However as you know I don’t see JVR as anymore than useful especially when we keep using him in the ruck for 30% of games.

  On 07/10/2024 at 14:03, Cranky Franky said:

Bon Ami you argue just like Christian apologists.

Every time you get pantsed on a specific point you just ignore it & move on to another irrelevancy.

To summarise your arguments

1. You believe Daniher had as much talent available as Goodwin

2. There's not much difference in talent between Lever/May & Collins/Nicholson.

A simple yes/no will suffice.

 

Deductor ad absurdum Crank the Frank hath called me a Christian apologist in so many words - absolutely nothing would be further from la verita, and somehow the Daniher years have been reduced to two players - Collins, who played 29 games over 4 years, and Nicholson. He also implieth that Daniher only had crud players at his disposal, and that because Goodwin has had Lever since 2018, May since 2019, he has a much, much superior list full of rock'n'rollin champions and we should have won every flag from their time onwards. 

David Neitz, Aaron Davey, Mathew Whelan, Clint Bizzel, Brad Green, the Bionco ruckman named White, Schwartz, Bruce, Robertson, Yze, Travis Johnstone, McDonald, Rivers, Dunne, Carrol, Brown, Bartram, Wheately, Ward, Jamar, Godfrey, Brad Miller, Ben Holland, Nathan Jones all say hello with a two fingered gesture....

Maybe, you should stick to what you're good at Cranker man, whatever that may be.

Love, Monbon.

Edited October 8, 2024Oct 8 by Monbon

  On 08/10/2024 at 00:39, Monbon said:

Deductor ad absurdum Crank the Frank hath called me a Christian apologist in so many words - absolutely nothing would be further from la verita, and somehow the Daniher years have been reduced to two players - Collins, who played 29 games over 4 years, and Nicholson. He also implieth that Daniher only had crud players at his disposal, and that because Goodwin has had Lever since 2018, May since 2019, he has a much, much superior list full of rock'n'rollin champions and we should have won every flag from their time onwards. 

David Neitz, Aaron Davey, Mathew Whelan, Clint Bizzel, Brad Green, the Bionco ruckman named White, Schwartz, Bruce, Robertson, Yze, Travis Johnstone, McDonald, Rivers, Dunne, Carrol, Brown, Bartram, Wheately, Ward, Jamar, Godfrey, Brad Miller, Ben Holland, Nathan Jones all say hello with a two fingered gesture....

Maybe, you should stick to what you're good at Cranker man, whatever that may be.

Love, Monbon.

And lest we forget Colin Syliva RIP, Byronia Pickett, Warmock, Maloney,McLean, Frawley, Pettered, Garland, Stef Martin, Woenamirri, Powell,, Armstrong, Jolley, Vardy, Broadbridge RIP,S. Febey, Woewoedin, Leoncelli, Rigoni, yep, once again,all on Daniher Lists from '98 until 2008, and cruddite players, all of them according to you, and Goodwin has May and Lever. Therefore we should just simply win flags but the coach is no Good (win).

  On 08/10/2024 at 00:39, Monbon said:

 

Maybe, you should stick to what you're good at Cranker man, whatever that may be.

Love, Monbon.

So be it Bon Ami.

I'll stick to holding Goodwin to account while you head up the conga line of apologists.

  On 08/10/2024 at 04:39, Monbon said:

And lest we forget Colin Syliva RIP, Byronia Pickett, Warmock, Maloney,McLean, Frawley, Pettered, Garland, Stef Martin, Woenamirri, Powell,, Armstrong, Jolley, Vardy, Broadbridge RIP,S. Febey, Woewoedin, Leoncelli, Rigoni, yep, once again,all on Daniher Lists from '98 until 2008, and cruddite players, all of them according to you, and Goodwin has May and Lever. Therefore we should just simply win flags but the coach is no Good (win).

Are you deliberately misspelling half the players you've listed, or you have no idea who they are? Some of these blokes hardly played a game under Daniher, who resigned halfway through 2007, not 2008.

Cranky is right. Our 2000 GF midfield of White, Woewodin, Powell and Leoncelli was workmanlike, but hardly comparable to Gawn, Oliver, Petracca and Viney.

Daniher and Northey both got the best out of average lists. Can't say the same about Goodwin. 

I don't think Goodwin should get the sack, but unless he changes his methods, the results will lead to him being replaced at the end of 2025.

  On 08/10/2024 at 06:59, Cranky Franky said:

So be it Bon Ami.

I'll stick to holding Goodwin to account while you head up the conga line of apologists.

And I forgot, one Jeffrey Farmer. I'm sure everybody will agree, Daniher had a very cruddy list. Always. 

You also have amnesia that after every Finals campaign, they had a year from Annus Miserabilis - that'll be censored, no doubt - the following year, cruddy list et al - '99',01', '03, '07,  and got thrashed in Elimination Finals in '05' and '06.

Edited October 8, 2024Oct 8 by Monbon

  On 08/10/2024 at 07:34, mo64 said:

Are you deliberately misspelling half the players you've listed, or you have no idea who they are? Some of these blokes hardly played a game under Daniher, who resigned halfway through 2007, not 2008.

Cranky is right. Our 2000 GF midfield of White, Woewodin, Powell and Leoncelli was workmanlike, but hardly comparable to Gawn, Oliver, Petracca and Viney.

Daniher and Northey both got the best out of average lists. Can't say the same about Goodwin. 

I don't think Goodwin should get the sack, but unless he changes his methods, the results will lead to him being replaced at the end of 2025.

Sorry about the spelling mistakes, my keyboard simply refuses to obey orders!!!!.

And, yes, I was mistaken about '08 - Sacre Blue, I must be fallible, unlike some around here...

You also fall into the Frankly Cranky man syndrome: he's on about May and Lever, versus Collins who played one full season in 4, and Nicholson, whereas you seem stuck at the center Bounce circle. Woewodin won a Brownlow that year, White was the best ruckman in the comp and Leoncelli was hardly a slouch. However, it seems I must either bow to the armchair experts on how effing lousy Goodwin is, or, as dey say in Italia: stay sta zitto.

Edited October 8, 2024Oct 8 by Monbon

  On 08/10/2024 at 07:35, Monbon said:

And I forgot, one Jeffrey Farmer. I'm sure everybody will agree, Daniher had a very cruddy list. Always. 

You also have amnesia that after every Finals campaign, they had a year from Annus Miserabilis - that'll be censored, no doubt - the following year, cruddy list et al - '99',01', '03, '07,  and got thrashed in Elimination Finals in '05' and '06.

There you go again Bonbon.

I didn't say you were a Christian apologist just that you employ the same tactics ie whenever you lose a point in an argument you just jump to something else & bang on without ever conceding the point you lost.

First you run lists of players names now you pop up with Jeff Farmer 🤣🤣.

If you think ND had as much talent as Goodie well fair enough but the GF teams bear no comparison.

How many games would Ben Beams, Nicholson & Collins have got in 2021 ?

 

 

  On 07/10/2024 at 21:29, Roost it far said:

I’m trusting JT to bring in some plug and play talent to go with Windsor and others to push us forward

I'm reckoning we'll trade our F1 pick for a first rounder in this year's draft.  We might have to sweeten the deal to get a top 10 pick (do we throw in a 2nd round pick?) 

So 2 picks in the top 10 could net us 2 plug-in and play midfielders??  The Guru in Jason Taylor to identify

There will be a club or 2 who may think we'll finish bottom 8 next year as that is how a deal might get done

Can you imagine how we'll feel if we snag 2 mids who turn out to be very good players in addition to Petracca, Viney, Oliver, Rivers, Sparrow, Kozzie, Langdon, Windsor & Tholstrup? 

Make it happen, Demons!!  

  On 08/10/2024 at 08:01, Cranky Franky said:

There you go again Bonbon.

I didn't say you were a Christian apologist just that you employ the same tactics ie whenever you lose a point in an argument you just jump to something else & bang on without ever conceding the point you lost.

First you run lists of players names now you pop up with Jeff Farmer 🤣🤣.

If you think ND had as much talent as Goodie well fair enough but the GF teams bear no comparison.

How many games would Ben Beams, Nicholson & Collins have got in 2021 ?

 

 

Dey was pretty oer da hills and far away by then. Jeffrey Farmer was The Trump Card, Frankly Crantaculus Maximus.

Have you talked to Siggy Fraud about your obsession wid Collins and the son of Nichol?????

  On 08/10/2024 at 08:09, Macca said:

I'm reckoning we'll trade our F1 pick for a first rounder in this year's draft.  We might have to sweeten the deal to get a top 10 pick (do we throw in a 2nd round pick?) 

So 2 picks in the top 10 could net us 2 plug-in and play midfielders??  The Guru in Jason Taylor to identify

There will be a club or 2 who may think we'll finish bottom 8 next year as that is how a deal might get done

Can you imagine how we'll feel if we snag 2 mids who turn out to be very good players in addition to Petracca, Viney, Oliver, Rivers, Sparrow, Kozzie, Langdon, Windsor & Tholstrup? 

Make it happen, Demons!!  

I am well and twoolie amazed, Grace, that The Lamb got his gig before the Lion in disguise called The Big Macca.

  On 08/10/2024 at 08:59, Monbon said:

I am well and twoolie amazed, Grace, that The Lamb got his gig before the Lion in disguise called The Big Macca.

You've been in fine form lately with the expansive writings (learnings?) 

But you know how it works here, Monbon ... 

It's the battle between the optimists and pessimists (a bit like Bruegel's battle between Carnival & Lent)  

Edited October 8, 2024Oct 8 by Macca

  On 08/10/2024 at 09:10, Macca said:

You've been in fine form lately with the expansive writings (learnings?) 

But you know how it works here, Monbon ... 

It's the battle between the optimists and pessimists (a bit like Bruegel's battle between Carnival & Lent)  

I just feel uncomfortable when the armchair Lentists make Goodwin the core of all error, misfortune, and bad luck: in other words, no coach in history has ever been as blameworthy for so many misfortunes. God Save the King. The Queen, the Pope, whoever!

  On 08/10/2024 at 10:33, Monbon said:

I just feel uncomfortable when the armchair Lentists make Goodwin the core of all error, misfortune, and bad luck: in other words, no coach in history has ever been as blameworthy for so many misfortunes. God Save the King. The Queen, the Pope, whoever!

I reckon it's because of his pressers ... he doesn't say much at all and the punters are hungry for info

I rarely watch pressers anyway as I've always judged the coach on how the team plays 

So I'd like to see some more enterprising footy with more attacking flair.  Our avenue to goal is too predictable.  If you were an opposition backman, you'd often know where to go in advance

But we need to keep up our contested ball work and defensive structures etc etc

A better mix of defence and attack is required

And another proper key forward would make the world of difference (I'd have Petty back)

 

HF  Petracca/Kozzie     JVR            Fritsch

F     Chandler      T-Mac (for now)   Melksham/Kolt

 

Edited October 8, 2024Oct 8 by Macca

  On 08/10/2024 at 08:55, Monbon said:

Dey was pretty oer da hills and far away by then. Jeffrey Farmer was The Trump Card, Frankly Crantaculus Maximus.

Have you talked to Siggy Fraud about your obsession wid Collins and the son of Nichol?????

(Translation of the above comments for those unfamiliar with Bonbon speak.)

Yes I was wrong & sorry for jumping from issue to issue indiscriminately.

Goodie had much more talent available than ND.

Ben Beams, Big Al & Matt Collins wouldn't be on an AFL list these days.

Apology accepted.