PODCAST: Rd 21 vs Western Bulldogs

[Demonland 72,521]

The Demonland Podcast will air LIVE on Monday, 5th August @ 7:30pm. Join George, Binman & I as we analyse the Demons loss at Marvel Stadium against the Bulldogs in the Round 21.

You questions and comments are a huge part of our podcast so please post anything you want to ask or say below and we'll give you a shout out on the show.

If you would like to leave us a voicemail please call 03 9016 3666 and don't worry no body answers so you don't have to talk to a human.

Listen & Chat LIVE: https://demonland.com/podcast

Call: 03 9016 3666

Skype: Demonland31

[Bigfoot 296]

Now that finals are out of our reach do we bite the bullet and play whatever kids we have in the 2s and give them a taste of seniors before next season? Surely we have salvage something out of this season for next season and finish as low as possible to get a better draft hand and fixture in 2025.

[Rhino88 5]

Surely we must put more focus on clearances. I know Binman continues to say they don’t matter as much anymore but the game was basically over at quarter time due to the Bulldogs clearance dominance.

Edited August 2 by Rhino88

[raDeelaide 248]

With May likely to miss a couple of weeks what should the makeup of our backline be?

[Lefty 412]

I would complain about the terrible umpiring but we have much bigger problems than that. 

[middleagedemon 325]

Should be a cracker podcast with binman bringing us some stats to back his position that we're on the right path, our heavy loading phase is actually right now rather than middle of the season now, clearance isn't an issue and we're still on track! 

No need to worry everyone! 

[Nairobi_Demon 335]

Two questions chaps:

I’m keen for the podcast to discuss Goody’s post-match press conference and particularly his theory of why our midfield performed so poorly.  He was very unhappy! I increasingly suspect he is dissatisfied with our method, cohesion and thus coaching in the middle and around stoppages given he explicitly noted it wasn’t about players unavailable and in past weeks he has mentioned problems with our stoppage method. 
 

For those at the game and who regularly watch the players box, do you think Goody is conferring directly with the young stats chap on the bench more than in the past?  In the past few games I’ve noticed on the TV him more regularly looking at the computer. It could be the cameras are covering this more because we’re not performing as well as in the past but I also wonder whether he’s not getting the analysis he needs from the coaches box. 

[At the break of Gawn 4,460]

I don’t want to hear from Binman how we evened them in clearances. They had the luxury of taking Libba off at 3 qtr time and we only won them once the game was gone.

Can we all acknowledge now that our midfield is our weakest line?

I can’t see us winning any of our remaining games against someone who has a decent midfield. Collingwood is probably our best shot.

[spirit of norm smith 16,487]

Questions. 

1- what is our new style of play - it’s become boring at times - compared to the Dogs for example 

Dogs. Fast. Direct. Waves.  Running.  
Dees. Slow. Indirect. Wide. Static. 

Though when we go more direct, it’s actually positive amd leads to goals.  Surprise!! 
 

2- Rock solid defence? Not anymore. Freo and the Dogs had a party.  Giants kicked goals in bursts.  Lever and McDonald are leaking goals. Not sure they are agile enough anymore.  Lever especially is having a bad year.  He has lost athleticism and struggles now with a 1-1 contest. And his loose handball was horrible.  McDonald cost us two goals in the 1sr qtr. 

3. Tackling ineffective…we are letting players get handballs away to keep the ball moving. Certainly obvious last night and the prior few weeks v Freo and GWS.  Clearances are a huge problem. Freo smashed us. Dogs smashed us. Games being lost early through stoppages and centre clearances. Contested footy…That WAS our strength!?!?! 
 

4. Depth in the list.  Loss of 4/5 players and Brayshaw retirement.  Too many passengers getting games. I think our lack of depth has hurt our desperation and desire. Sparrow. Bowey. Chandler. Salem. All have really underperformed but get match after match. Finally we saw Sparrow dropped and he reacted. 

5. Goodwin. Coaching style and strategy or lack therein. Enough said on other posts.  We simply cannot say we are learning and we are working on forward connection   Accountability?!?!!! 

[monoccular 17,444]

I will preface by saying that I wasn't able to get to the game nor to see even one moment of TV.

Is it time for some biblical reflection?  Matthew 13:49-50 "So it will be at the end of the age; the angels will come forth and take out the wicked from among the righteous, (50) and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

There will indeed be much weeping and gnashing of teeth but is it really the end of the age??  Will Jason Taylor find some gems once again, and will he and Tim Lamb become angels and take out the under performers from among the list and cast them, in the way of  true demons, into the furnace of fire?   

Clearly we need more talent and leg speed, and hopefully will recruit accordingly.    Trading in under performers from other clubs to underperform for us hasn't gone at all well in recent years.  

We desperately need a clear run of injury from the start (Brayshaw, Petracca, Oliver, Viney, and they were our best mids, Petty and Melksham half the season, Bowey, May, Spargo who essentially missed the whole season  then Windsor to ice the cake) and as the season seems shot some who need a "rest" to get ready for preseason should be considered now.  If we can start the season with a full list of those who will be able to play most of 2025 we will be in a far better shape.  I personally don't see us as bottoming out.

Some say play all the kids now - but if they are all thrown in the deep end at once will that really help?  Sure the likes of K Brown, Woewoden Howes should get more exposure and maybe even Sestan at some stage, but Jefferson whilst tempting could have his development curtailed unless introduced carefully.  Has Laurie had the line put through already despite his contractural status?  I feel being dropped after his best game was saying something.

Just trying to see some possible positives to save my teeth from terminal gnashing.

Amen

 

[buck_nekkid 5,926]

Looking for this to be a ‘bounce’ year.. Hit the draft and get what we can.  

1. Max talks about ‘pride in the jumper’ - do you think this is enough to motivate the boys to win the next 3?

2. Assistant coaches - are there the problem?  Reading between the lines of Goody’s presser, it seems that the coaching setup is not working.  Is it time for mcQualter to walk the plank?

[McVeezyLikeASundayMorning 20]

G’day fellas, thanks again for this brilliant podcast. I love the insights and the banter. I think I’ll pour myself a beer on Monday night and imagine we’re all drowning our sorrows together.

In all seriousness, I still love the club and love Goody. I just think we’re cooked.

I was unfortunately not able to get to the game so I was watching the replay, and at one point Richmond and BT were acknowledging our young list and the fact that we’ve had to rebuild ‘on the run,’ balancing current match outcomes with future-proofing our side. They mentioned Geelong and Sydney as other teams who’ve successfully done this, the inference being that we’ve somehow fudged it up.

I don’t know enough about the cats or swans to know if this is a fair comparison, but would love your thoughts - have we somehow made strategic blunders in the way we’ve introduced our younger guys to the game, or has our hand been totally forced by injury, and is this an unfair comparison?

(If you can validate my dislike of BT’s commentary, I’d appreciate it. Cheers.)

Thanks guys, love your work and am looking forward to Monday. :)

 

[RadishDee 25]

CONDITIONING

Looking at some stats for some answers I came across our points conceded as interesting. In 2021, we allowed 80 points on more on 3 occasions and lost all 3. In 2022 it was 8 times and we lost 7 of 8 (beating the Hawks 91 - 81). After the winning streak was broken, the scores conceded were really inconsistent with it see-sawing back on forth every week. In 2023, we also conceded 8 scores of 80 or more, but only lost 3 of those (hence the forward line becomes the issue because we lost a lot of games not conceding a big score). This year in only 20 games (rather than 24 or 25 in previous years) we have conceded 10 scores of 80 or more and lost 9 of those 10 (Port being the exception).

What's clear is that our defence is significantly worse this year, especially since the middle of the season. So what's changed? I put it down to 3 things, personnel, game plan and conditioning. So which is the main culprit?

Conditioning to me is the main issue. We look slow. We're second to contests, and also getting cut up on the outside. Meaning that our players are getting stuck in the middle. The zone isn't working as well as it has previously and we're much easier to open up than in previous years.

When we think about it, this makes sense. Our teams in the last few weeks have been young. Young players haven't developed their tanks yet. But on the other side, we also play a lot of older players (Gawn, Melksham, McDonald, May and Viney all playing recently and over 30). So we have a fairly stacked team of late with about half the playing team (11ish by my count) either 18-21 or 30+. It doesn't make for the fittest group on the park.

Can we improve this next year? I think we can. The pre-season was very compromised as has been much discussed. With an extra few weeks break and the chance to come back with a full list I think 2025 looks alright.

KOLT

I'm loving Kolt! Has anyone on the panel noticed how often he pops up in the right areas in the forward line? When a key forward is taking a mark or there's a scrap on the ground, the Kolt seems to be there more often than not. With another pre-season under his belt I think he'll jump to another level next year.

PETTY

Has been really good recently. Not hitting the scoreboard very much but is taking important marks on the wing.

JEFFERSON

I was surprised to see that Jeffo has the most VFL goals of any AFL listed player. With one more pre-season under his belt, does the panel think that he'll be ready at some point next year.

2025

The main thing we will have to do in the offseason is refresh the list. In addition to the 2 dead spots on the list there are multiple players on the list that are sadly just not AFL standard anymore: Schache, Hunter, BBB, Tommo. I know the podcast has been down on our list and talent, but think about how much better we could be with even 3 of those 6 list spots taken by players that actually might improve in the future.

The 3 recruits from last year (Billings, Fullarton and McAdam) have been disappointing, but another Demons pre-season will improve their fitness which can only help. While I'm not bullish on Billings and Fullarton, I think McAdam has a chance to make a difference if he can get fit.

With a good draft and 2 recruits better than previous years, I think we can build and challenge again next year (much like the Cats and Swans have done). Have faith, the core of this team is still excellent and the rest of the team will come.

Though I have to say the ruck position specifically gives me cause for concern. Our next generation ruck got pilfered and we can't seem to develop a new ruck (which is very unlike the Melbourne of the pre-Gawn years). Can we get a ruck to play after Max? Will Verrall be ready?

[layzie 33,882]

What has happened to our fitness levels? We've gone from being one of the fittest teams in the comp to looking terribly unfit struggle to cover the ground at Marvel. The defense is under pressure all the time and there doesn't seem to be enough chasing back by the midfield to help. 

As for now to the end of the season I'd like to see McVee, Laurie, Pickett, Woewodin and maybe Tholstrup getting serious midfield minutes. I'd like to see AMW and possibly Kynan Brown get more time down back.

Edited August 3 by layzie

[spirit of norm smith 16,487]

@layzie interesting observation re fitness. We were a strong fit team in 2021 under Burgess.  Running games through and winning 2nd half contests.  Unfortunately we are falling short in 4th quarters (even goalless in some recent games).  Lots of hands on hips and tired MFC players.  Chasing gets exhausting when others are winning contests.  Not sure if it’s conditioning, or the fact when you chase or are beaten at clearance, defending wears you down.  

[the pearl 36]

Interesting stats to record from this week’s pod:

1. False assertions based on misguided interpretation of statistics. 
2. Interruptions to Andy while he is trying to make a pessimistic argument.

3. Number of times George claims we have  no-one at Casey to step up.

[Jibroni 5,004]

Since Round 9 (4 wins and 8 losses) we are the following:

15^th Disposals

16^th Kicking Efficiency

18^th Clearances

14^th Points For and Against

 

Is this a talent, coaching issue or combination of both?

A discussion on these numbers would be appreciated, the stats came from Round So Far (AFL site).

Edited August 4 by Jibroni

[Demonland 72,521]

Don't forgot to get your questions in by midday Monday. Perhaps hold off on questions about what to do with draft picks/trades etc as there will be plenty of time to talk about that.

[Doug Reemer 1,197]

Changes this week.

OUT- May, Melksham, Howes, Turner (Sub)

IN- Tomlinson, Jefferson, Fullerton, Laurie (Sub)

Controversial opinion, Melksham’s little burst of energy he provided since returning has gone, I’d give him a week off and give Jeffo & Fullerton a taste, he (Jeffo) is not quite ready physically but he’s got natural forward craft.

I’m also not a big fan of him, but bring Fullerton in to chop out Max abit, poor blokes literally on one leg. Which would allow us to rest Max forward & use JVR as a sole forward where he plays much better.

Also Ports ruck stock’s aren’t much chop, so this would be a good week to have a look at it.

Laurie Sub.

(Can’t see any of these changes happening except for May and Tomo)

Edited August 4 by Doug Reemer

[Demonland 72,521]

1 more hour to get any final questions in.

[monoccular 17,444]

1/ Are there data on how many under 22s we have used 2024 compared to other sides? 
It seems as a gut feeling we have more than other sides, and most appear to have a huge upside giving me cause for genuine optimism going forward.  
Given our terrible run of injuries to many key players pre and during the season, and one suspended indefinitely, put us on the back foot all year, can things get worse? MFCSS kicking in 

2/ Is it the clubs or the AFL who set up the post match pressers?  How can any credible organization have these things without a roaming microphone 🎤 for the floor?  Just unintelligible most of the time.  Amateurish tight @sses  

Thanks again for your enlightening and entertaining weekly podcasts.  

[Demonland 72,521]

Closing off the questions here.

See you tonight LIVE at the newer earlier time of 7:30pm.

[Demonland 72,521]

We're LIVE

https://demonland.com/podcast

[Demonland 72,521]

[Demonland 72,521]

Please LIKE and SUBSCRIBE if you haven't already. Thank you.