Mick Malthouse "Demons Culture"

[loges 6,337]

8 hours ago, von said:

I told you what I thought good culture was. As you asked. Is losing gus Brayshaw culture or luck? We wouldn’t have got rid of Jordan or harmes if the timing was different, so there’s luck there. Is losing Jackson to homesickness and immaturity luck or culture? Is petraccas injury luck or culture? Is the Grundy experiment to be applauded for trying or is it to be admonished for not working? Is falling apart in the 22 finals due to injury luck or culture? Is having no forward line in 23 finals after finally finding one luck or culture? 
 

what I’m saying is you can’t throw the baby out with the bath water. Like some have discussed regarding our game plan. Maybe we were ok and just needed a few things to go right for us. Maybe we didn’t need to overhaul it and as a result look a bit lost out there. We went from losing by about a goal on average all year to now getting blown out of the water due to trying to play differently and having bad luck (yes I said it) with our midfield this year. Sometimes in chasing results and going on witch hunts you can make things much worse. Only in hindsight can you tell.
 

my main argument is when assessing culture you need to take into account the entirety of your season and seasons to properly understand where you are and how successfully you’ve implemented plans. 
 

we carry on about our list sometimes on here and bemoan our depth and whatnot but what could we do about it. We aren’t in a position in the cycle where we can draft top talent because we keep finishing top four. The way I see it with the amount of youth we are blooding is that we are trying a Geelong rebuild on the go style list turnover. That feels like what you are talking about. Except we don’t seem to be able to offer farms to players like they can. Sometimes life is unfair.
 

I could argue you’ve got your head in the sand around the difficulties we’ve faced thus far with the Simon goodwin era. The team who wins the flag is often the one with the least injuries. That’s hasn’t been us. I see it as two phases. Up to 2018 and then post 2018. I see a group who have learnt on the go and developed a formidable game style. For three years we have been the best defensive team in the land by quite some way. That requires planning, buy in, consistent hard work, the right players. Our plan was so good that it’s still the plan that teams play in finals. Is that not good culture. 
 

I see us as getting there. Which is all any team is doing. Considering the [censored] I’ve been dealt in my life with this club I am pretty happy with what’s happened since 2018 and I see it as a result of the clubs improved culture amongst high performance and the well being of everyone at the club.

when your clubs is struggling the media like to prey on the darkest fears of the supporters. Don’t listen to them. They’ll only ruin you.

Who are you and how dare you write so many sensible posts on Demonland ?

[Monbon 1,618]

5 hours ago, In Harmes Way said:

I resemble that remark

My god, he called you a flatulater: sue!

[Dr. Gonzo 22,786]

10 hours ago, von said:

I told you what I thought good culture was. As you asked. Is losing gus Brayshaw culture or luck? We wouldn’t have got rid of Jordan or harmes if the timing was different, so there’s luck there. Is losing Jackson to homesickness and immaturity luck or culture? Is petraccas injury luck or culture? Is the Grundy experiment to be applauded for trying or is it to be admonished for not working? Is falling apart in the 22 finals due to injury luck or culture? Is having no forward line in 23 finals after finally finding one luck or culture? 
 

what I’m saying is you can’t throw the baby out with the bath water. Like some have discussed regarding our game plan. Maybe we were ok and just needed a few things to go right for us. Maybe we didn’t need to overhaul it and as a result look a bit lost out there. We went from losing by about a goal on average all year to now getting blown out of the water due to trying to play differently and having bad luck (yes I said it) with our midfield this year. Sometimes in chasing results and going on witch hunts you can make things much worse. Only in hindsight can you tell.
 

my main argument is when assessing culture you need to take into account the entirety of your season and seasons to properly understand where you are and how successfully you’ve implemented plans. 
 

we carry on about our list sometimes on here and bemoan our depth and whatnot but what could we do about it. We aren’t in a position in the cycle where we can draft top talent because we keep finishing top four. The way I see it with the amount of youth we are blooding is that we are trying a Geelong rebuild on the go style list turnover. That feels like what you are talking about. Except we don’t seem to be able to offer farms to players like they can. Sometimes life is unfair.
 

I could argue you’ve got your head in the sand around the difficulties we’ve faced thus far with the Simon goodwin era. The team who wins the flag is often the one with the least injuries. That’s hasn’t been us. I see it as two phases. Up to 2018 and then post 2018. I see a group who have learnt on the go and developed a formidable game style. For three years we have been the best defensive team in the land by quite some way. That requires planning, buy in, consistent hard work, the right players. Our plan was so good that it’s still the plan that teams play in finals. Is that not good culture. 
 

I see us as getting there. Which is all any team is doing. Considering the [censored] I’ve been dealt in my life with this club I am pretty happy with what’s happened since 2018 and I see it as a result of the clubs improved culture amongst high performance and the well being of everyone at the club.

when your clubs is struggling the media like to prey on the darkest fears of the supporters. Don’t listen to them. They’ll only ruin you.

I don't listen to the media, I don't watch anything footy related other than the games anymore. I form my opinions based on what I see on the field and what I see coming out of the club. Watching a team who should still be challenging for top 4 get shown up on multiple occasions this season including by an underperforming Lions on our home deck, a bottom 4 WCE team and a severely undermanned Collingwood and just rolling over to lose to a flakey Freo by almost 100 points is more than enough evidence to base on opinion on, I don't need media charlatans forming an opinion for me.

We have a fundamental difference of opinion around what a high performing culture is and whether we have one. In professional sport, the only thing that matters is winning. Success will be measured differently based on where a club is at but when teams are matured and settled and have a group of players who can be considered AA worthy then the goal must be competing in Prelims each year for the duration of the teams window. You can come up with all the excuses you want, the fact is we have made a Prelim once since 2018 and have not been a challenger in those years we missed.

It is clear to me our club has deficiencies which are preventing them from taking that next step to become perennial challengers. A part of that is personnel but the larger more important part is mindset. Until we get the mindset right we will just be making up the numbers.

Edited June 20 by Dr. Gonzo

[Dr. Gonzo 22,786]

9 hours ago, whatwhat say what said:

IMO not being able to qualify for finals is the failure

We didn’t capitalise on our opportunities 

There were a variety of factors at play as to why, but ultimately it was a disappointing result…not a failure

I disagree but that is probably down to our individual expectations. When I look at team sports and the other sports I follow closely (NFL and NBA) not making Championship games (ie Prelim finals) for teams who should realistically be expecting to compete for the title is a failure. You need to make those games to give yourself a chance and then that's where luck can come into play to an extent. Failing to make the final four one season can happen without being emblematic of performance concerns, failing to make the final four in 5 of the last 6 seasons is a clear sign you have underperformed and is more than disappointing, it is a failure.

This year has been a trainwreck but it is not in isolation. After the 2022 finals you could say, well we were pretty cooked and limped into finals so straight sets while frustrating is understandable if they back it up next year. Next year comes and we go out in straight sets again turning up unprepared and what seemed a bit she'll shocked by Collingwood (even before the Gus incident) a team who has our number. We played better against Carlton but still couldn't capitalise and out in straight sets again. Ok 2 strikes isn't great but let's see how they rebound next year. Now in 2024 things are falling apart at the seams. So it's not one year of poor performance in isolation, the club needs to be assessed on results this year in the context of the previous two years and the failure to make a Prelim in that time.

Edited June 20 by Dr. Gonzo

[whatwhat say what 20,327]

4 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I disagree but that is probably down to our individual expectations. When I look at team sports and the other sports I follow closely (NFL and NBA) not making Championship games (ie Prelim finals) for teams who should realistically be expecting to compete for the title is a failure. You need to make those games to give yourself a chance and then that's where luck can come into play to an extent. Failing to make the final four one season can happen without being emblematic of performance concerns, failing to make the final four in 5 of the last 6 seasons is a clear sign you have underperformed and is more than disappointing, it is a failure.

Denver and Milwaukee are failures then I guess - winning their first championships and otherwise not making conference finals over a six year period when they have two of the most dominant players in the game 

Denver lost Murray pre title year to injury and then this year just couldn’t get it done cos of incredible match up - Minnesota were literally put together to beat them

Milwaukee lost Giannis this year and last

I guess we see disappointment vs failure differently

There’s so much luck involved in ultimate success at the highest level 

[von 1,350]

23 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I don't listen to the media, I don't watch anything footy related other than the games anymore. I form my opinions based on what I see on the field and what I see coming out of the club. Watching a team who should still be challenging for top 4 get shown up on multiple occasions this season including by an underperforming Lions on our home deck, a bottom 4 WCE team and a severely undermanned Collingwood and just rolling over to lose to a flakey Freo by almost 100 points is more than enough evidence to base on opinion on, I don't need media charlatans forming an opinion for me.

We have a fundamental difference of opinion around what a high performing culture is and whether we have one. In professional sport, the only thing that matters is winning. Success will be measured differently based on where a club is at but when teams are matured and settled and have a group of players who can be considered AA worthy then the goal must be competing in Prelims each year for the duration of the teams window. You can come up with all the excuses you want, the fact is we have made a Prelim once since 2018 and have not been a challenger in those years we missed.

It is clear to me our club has deficiencies which are preventing them from taking that next step to become perennial challengers. A part of that is personnel but the larger more important part is mindset. Until we get the mindset right we will just be making up the numbers.

I agree this year has been a mess. How do you establish and maintain mindset?

[Anti-Saint 223]

let's get a few items clear on Mick MoanHouse!

1 he left some wonderful legacies at: RRd, aka Linton St; Dump Road (joint was worse than us for 30 years); Bulldogs were in the WCoakEagles; FilthLands; CarlTank

2 he went to coach each time at clubs that were low, so, he couldn't lose - the only was was up and if the clubs remained poor Mick would just Moan that it was everyone else's fault

3 I heard Mick being presented with an award five years ago: for achievement in football.  What did Mick talk about? A: all of his premierships as a coach? B: his premiership as a player (as a junior at North Ballarat and then Dump Rd)? C: about the 1991 finals draw where his Eagles had to play three times in a row in Melbourne despite their higher seeding (no mention of his Eagles losing Week 1 in Perth, nor, the Eagles being a WA-team (if you can find a player in their 1991 GF team that was recruited from the eastern states I will stand corrected).

For all that MoanHouse has received from footy, all I ever hear back is moan, Moan, MOAN!

[Demon trucker 1,800]

12 hours ago, Little Goffy said:

Oh yay a conspiracy theorist.

How is that a conspiracy theory? And it's not a theory when it is happening 

[Demon trucker 1,800]

8 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I don't listen to the media, I don't watch anything footy related other than the games anymore. I form my opinions based on what I see on the field and what I see coming out of the club. Watching a team who should still be challenging for top 4 get shown up on multiple occasions this season including by an underperforming Lions on our home deck, a bottom 4 WCE team and a severely undermanned Collingwood and just rolling over to lose to a flakey Freo by almost 100 points is more than enough evidence to base on opinion on, I don't need media charlatans forming an opinion for me.

We have a fundamental difference of opinion around what a high performing culture is and whether we have one. In professional sport, the only thing that matters is winning. Success will be measured differently based on where a club is at but when teams are matured and settled and have a group of players who can be considered AA worthy then the goal must be competing in Prelims each year for the duration of the teams window. You can come up with all the excuses you want, the fact is we have made a Prelim once since 2018 and have not been a challenger in those years we missed.

It is clear to me our club has deficiencies which are preventing them from taking that next step to become perennial challengers. A part of that is personnel but the larger more important part is mindset. Until we get the mindset right we will just be making up the numbers.

It takes years to build respect and a winning culture, it takes about 2 losses  to lose that respect and culture, the freeo loses was the first loss by over 10 goals since 2020.

so chicken Little captain of the mfcss members, you do know it's a numbers game, you can't be playing like champions every week, it's not culture it's a 50 50 game, it's more about confidence and a team has no confidence at the moment, so going by you losing = a bad culture and winning means you have a good culture, so going by you after round 24, last year we had a good culture, because we won the last few games and finished  top 4, but after losing to Carlton the team has a bad culture, just think how that sounds, Geelong where almost unbeatable in 2022, and didn't even make top 8 the next year, so they must have a bad culture, you don't know much about culture do you? Does 2+3= 6 in your world? 

[WalkingCivilWar 34,883]

On 17/06/2024 at 11:12, von said:

Performance is measured by wins and losses. Culture is something entirely unrelated to wind and losses. You really don’t like your own club. 

👏👏👏

On 17/06/2024 at 11:45, Sir Why You Little said:

In the AFL World Culture is about Wins and Losses 

Culture means culture, regardless of what world we’re in.

I’m sure there hasn’t been a word as misused as ‘Culture’ since the league was formed.

[WalkingCivilWar 34,883]

20 hours ago, Demon trucker said:

Right you like a run and hide president, I hate people who are only behind you when everything is great, and leave you blowing in the wind, in the hard times, the players can feel her fakeness, but with woke people women can do no wrong 

When did the players tell you this?

[WalkingCivilWar 34,883]

1 hour ago, Demon trucker said:

And it's not a theory when it is happening 

LOL it’s ONLY a theory when it’s happening.

Hot tip: Make dictionary.com your friend. 

[Demon trucker 1,800]

3 minutes ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

LOL it’s ONLY a theory when it’s happening.

Hot tip: Make dictionary.com your friend. 

? If you don't have anything to say don't say it, talk only when you have something to say

[WalkingCivilWar 34,883]

11 minutes ago, Demon trucker said:

? If you don't have anything to say don't say it, talk only when you have something to say

You didn’t answer my question. You said the players feel our president’s fakeness. I’m wondering exactly which players told you this because if it’s the same ones who’ve told me they support her I’ll know they were lying to me. Ta in advance 😉 

One other thing: you say you don’t hear from our president when things are bad, you only hear from her when things are good. Are you talking about press conferences? Can’t imagine why anyone would expect that but whatever. Here’s a fact for you: no matter our position on the ladder I see Kate at training, I see Kate at matches, I see Kate at functions, I see Kate at interstate matches and I even see Kate sitting in the cheer squad at times.

There you go. You *told me to only talk when I have something to say and I’ve done so.

*Never, EVER tell me what to do. Understand?

[leave it to deever 16,556]

22 hours ago, Demon trucker said:

Right you like a run and hide president, I hate people who are only behind you when everything is great, and leave you blowing in the wind, in the hard times, the players can feel her fakeness, but with woke people women can do no wrong 

Woke doesn't mean what you think it does.

I know language is an ever changing and evolving organism but it would be nice for it to have a baseline and not be corrupted by people not motivated enough to use a dictionary from time to time.

[Fromgotowoewodin 1,128]

3 hours ago, Demon trucker said:

It takes years to build respect and a winning culture, it takes about 2 losses  to lose that respect and culture, the freeo loses was the first loss by over 10 goals since 2020.

so chicken Little captain of the mfcss members, you do know it's a numbers game, you can't be playing like champions every week, it's not culture it's a 50 50 game, it's more about confidence and a team has no confidence at the moment, so going by you losing = a bad culture and winning means you have a good culture, so going by you after round 24, last year we had a good culture, because we won the last few games and finished  top 4, but after losing to Carlton the team has a bad culture, just think how that sounds, Geelong where almost unbeatable in 2022, and didn't even make top 8 the next year, so they must have a bad culture, you don't know much about culture do you? Does 2+3= 6 in your world? 

Agree, culture doesn’t prevent bad times, it helps you get through the bad times.

The slump we’re in doesn’t show the culture is bad, but how we come through it will show where we’re at. 

[Little Goffy 12,978]

To help us through the pre-game tension, a quick trip to the great rivals of the 1830s;

"... a still more extraordinary case was the flight of the 97th semi-brigade - fifteen hundred strong - at the siege of Genoa, before a mere platoon of cavalry. Two days afterward these same men took Fort Dramond by one of the most vigorous assaults mentioned in modern history."

Jomini, 1838

"Until the battle is finally concluded, all successes in partial combats are only decisions in suspense, which by the capital decision may not only be destroyed but changed into their opposite. ... Troops are never in better spirits for fighting than when they have to wipe out a stain."

Clausewitz, 1832

[layzie 30,289]

9 hours ago, Little Goffy said:

To help us through the pre-game tension, a quick trip to the great rivals of the 1830s;

"... a still more extraordinary case was the flight of the 97th semi-brigade - fifteen hundred strong - at the siege of Genoa, before a mere platoon of cavalry. Two days afterward these same men took Fort Dramond by one of the most vigorous assaults mentioned in modern history."

Jomini, 1838

"Until the battle is finally concluded, all successes in partial combats are only decisions in suspense, which by the capital decision may not only be destroyed but changed into their opposite. ... Troops are never in better spirits for fighting than when they have to wipe out a stain."

Clausewitz, 1832

Now that's something on this thread worth reading!

[Bowserpower 23]

15 hours ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

You didn’t answer my question. You said the players feel our president’s fakeness. I’m wondering exactly which players told you this because if it’s the same ones who’ve told me they support her I’ll know they were lying to me. Ta in advance 😉 

One other thing: you say you don’t hear from our president when things are bad, you only hear from her when things are good. Are you talking about press conferences? Can’t imagine why anyone would expect that but whatever. Here’s a fact for you: no matter our position on the ladder I see Kate at training, I see Kate at matches, I see Kate at functions, I see Kate at interstate matches and I even see Kate sitting in the cheer squad at times.

There you go. You *told me to only talk when I have something to say and I’ve done so.

*Never, EVER tell me what to do. Understand?

It's interesting to see you dont like it when other people dont answer your questions but you're happy to avoid questions put to you?

Why can't there be free flowing conversation?

[WalkingCivilWar 34,883]

6 minutes ago, Bowserpower said:

It's interesting to see you dont like it when other people dont answer your questions but you're happy to avoid questions put to you?

Why can't there be free flowing conversation?

You again. 🙄

The final line of your last comment to me was “Anyway sorry to bother you, have a good one.” Guess what? You’re bothering me again. Please stop sticking your nose into my business. This is the last time I’ll respond to you.

[Bowserpower 23]

9 hours ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

You again. 🙄

The final line of your last comment to me was “Anyway sorry to bother you, have a good one.” Guess what? You’re bothering me again. Please stop sticking your nose into my business. This is the last time I’ll respond to you.

You're accusing someone of the very same thing though, it's hypocritical that you're the only one entitled to answers. As I said why can't there be normal conversation?

You keep saying I'm sticking my nose into your business, why are you on the message board if you don't like questions and conversation? Do you make the rules?