TRAINING: Monday 11th March 2024

[Sydee 4,529]

1 hour ago, 58er said:

Needs to be rucked ( JVR) to get him into the game. Plenty of upside in the team from last week. But speed needs to be used on the G. 

I don’t see the logic in rucking our single tall forward who can physically compete with big defenders 

We have two others who can do that - Petty and TMac neither is available or considered ready 

BBB can’t do it neither can Schache 

[Roost it far 8,574]

I wouldn't be over rucking JVR. It's why we need Fullerton. If he's not up for the contest then he's another wasted selection.

[Young Angus 802]

1 hour ago, 58er said:

Read our website article there.

i am not telling so go to our website!!!  

D/L is not the B end for club news. How many times do D/Lers need to be told! 

Haha smacked bottom for me for being such a D/L noob and asking a MFC football related question on a MFC football discussion forum...hmmmm shame on me?

[BangBnagBang 700]

21 hours ago, Sydee said:

  Crowded forward lines are mostly a function of how efficiently teams move the ball and transition from the back half of the ground 

Ours is crowded mostly because we generally move the ball too slowly allowing the opposition to get numbers back. That is why it sounds like we are trying to improve our ball movement efficiency as it’s directly linked to F50 efficiency 
 

We obviously also need a more than one strong contested mark down there (that would be Petty but he’s not available) - Fritta is a great forward but contested marking is not his game and Schache is Schache 

Watching GWS Sat night they had Brown (jet imo) Hogan, Ricardi and Cadman - pretty handy talls to add to Greene, Daniels and Bedford 

 

I feel its also a by product of how well we set up defensively behind the ball. If we dont score in the first I50 we can at times have multiply I50 one after another as we are set up so well the opp cant clear the ball. All these repeat I50 are going back into a crowded 50 with no where to lead and hence the only option is to kick long to a pack. Almost be better for us if we let the opp take the ball back past the centre so we can turn it over and attack with a bit more room??? 

17 hours ago, Nascent said:

Unpopular opinion on here it seems but I hope they persist with Laurie, at least for a few more games. Kid has skill, is one of our best by hands and when he gets his confidence up he should sharpen up those kicking skills and help our delivery inside forward 50.

In my view he appears to be a confidence player and doesn't believe he belongs yet. Doesn't help when langdon runs across his kicking line, smothering the kick and then scolds him for it, nor would it help when he was clearly ignored by Salem while he was 20 metres in the clear inside 50. Out of the 6 games he's played he's been sub or subbed out 5 times.

He will want to start showing some serious improvement however and I don't think a forward line can include all of Him, Chandler, Anb, Pickett and Spargo with McAdam to come. Up to him to start taking these chances otherwise he'll be in strife come the end of the year. 

 

13 hours ago, Kick_It_To_Pickett said:

Another Laurie apologist…go watch his practice match against Carlton. Made several basic skill errors in a pratice game in front of 3,000 ppl. He is lost on the big stage and executes horribly under pressure. He is not AFL standard. Lacks height and size and has little physically to make up for it, unlike a Caleb Daniel. He won’t make it. He deserves nothing. The fact he was subbed so early shows that the coaching staff knew he was a complete liability 

Laurie to me hasn't picked up the pace of the game yet. He needs time to do this and then we can see if he's upto it or not. However he may just never pick it up or run out of time. 

[Singa 224]

Thanks for the training report and comments @kev martin

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

3 hours ago, dee-tox said:

Isn't the nature of modern footy that forward lines are crowded?

Defending yes that is no doubt the goal of every team.

The better offensive teams manage to create more open forward lines more often, move the ball slickly in transition and use their last kick inside to exploit it.

Matched up by designated leading mobile forwards who work their azzes off to get into the space and present to different areas of the ground vs all going to the one spot and trying to outmark each other. 

Dragging extra defenders to the drop, making it very difficult to mark or take advantage of any spillage and score.

These designated KFs are helped by other non designated or dekoy forwards who often clear the area, dragging their opponent with them.

They appear to have a forward system/method, the players know their roles and everyone works in unison.

Then we have 'the Melbourne way' which is far often the antithesis of that (till now).

Edited March 12 by Demon Dynasty

[Roost it far 8,574]

11 minutes ago, Demon Dynasty said:

Defending yes that is no doubt the goal of every team.

The better offensive teams manage to create more open forward lines more often, move the ball slickly in transition and use their last kick inside to exploit it.

Matched up by designated leading mobile forwards who work their azzes off to get into the space and present to different areas of the ground vs all going to the one spot and trying to outmark each other. 

Dragging extra defenders to the drop, making it very difficult to mark or take advantage of any spillage and score.

These designated KFs are helped by other non designated or dekoy forwards who often clear the area, dragging their opponent with them.

They appear to have a forward system/method, the players know their roles and everyone works in unison.

Then we have 'the Melbourne way' which is far often the antithesis of that (till now).

This space you talk of virtually never happens in the big games. Teams are primed to run back and defend. Even the Pies played like this in the finals. Sure you get some moments but by and large our gameplan is the model. What's not working is our lack of targets and our poor kicking.

[Sydee 4,529]

20 minutes ago, Roost it far said:

This space you talk of virtually never happens in the big games. Teams are primed to run back and defend. Even the Pies played like this in the finals. Sure you get some moments but by and large our gameplan is the model. What's not working is our lack of targets and our poor kicking.

Tend to agree - a compounding factor is as has been discussed many times our players delivering into F50 either don’t look for the best options or simply don’t have the skill to execute effectively 

This is one reason I’d like to see if McVee can play some midfield time as he does have good kicking skills and seems capable of spotting a clear target - see the kick to Fritta against the swans. I struggle to see some of our regular mids making that kick 

[Roost it far 8,574]

18 minutes ago, Sydee said:

Tend to agree - a compounding factor is as has been discussed many times our players delivering into F50 either don’t look for the best options or simply don’t have the skill to execute effectively 

This is one reason I’d like to see if McVee can play some midfield time as he does have good kicking skills and seems capable of spotting a clear target - see the kick to Fritta against the swans. I struggle to see some of our regular mids making that kick 

That’s what Salem is for, here’s hoping we persist and don’t use him to cover Bowey

[old55 23,687]

18 hours ago, Gator said:

I'd bring in Hore.

We play 7 defenders in the 22.  May, Lever, Tomlinson, Rivers, McVee, Howes and Hore is a strong unit.

McVee can take Weightman.

I mentioned Woewodin earlier, but I acknowledge that's unlikely.

The Dogs are naturally taller in the front half than many other sides, so Hore makes sense as an intercepter at 191cm, who's still agile enough to be a flanker.

And it allow Salem to stay midfield.

Imagine abandoning Salem as a midfielder after one game after it's been earmarked for two years ?  It doesn't make sense to me.

Yes Hore is first cab in the rank. Maybe we might worry about being too slow back there with Tomlinson, Lever and Hore.

Alternatives are all left field now Gus has retired. IMO Billings is next best suited, he's experienced and could learn the system the quickest and he's a very nice kick on both sides.

Edited March 12 by old55

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

37 minutes ago, Roost it far said:

That’s what Salem is for, here’s hoping we persist and don’t use him to cover Bowey

While he's a decent kick over short distances Salem doesn't have the leg speed or agility (abiltiy to get out of gaol in congestion) of Mcvee.

Both should be getting mid time with a view to slowly progressing McVee into reasonably significant mid minutes if we're serious about solving the mid-forward connection dilemma.

[old55 23,687]

4 minutes ago, Demon Dynasty said:

While he's a decent kick over short distances Salem doesn't have the leg speed or agility (abiltiy to get out of gaol in congestion) of Mcvee.

Both should be getting mid time with a view to slowly progressing McVee into reasonably significant mid minutes if we're serious about solving the mid-forward connection dilemma.

Maybe, but I don't think talk about playing both Salem and McVee in the midfield does anything to address the need for cover for Bowey.

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

1 hour ago, Roost it far said:

This space you talk of virtually never happens in the big games. Teams are primed to run back and defend. Even the Pies played like this in the finals. Sure you get some moments but by and large our gameplan is the model. What's not working is our lack of targets and our poor kicking.

To a degree.  The top teams are able to find this space more than we do at times.  Certainly not suggesting they have open forward lines 90% of the time!  Teams get back very quickly now as mentioned.

If you are saying there is no more space available in forward lines (almost always?) then you are relying on forwards who can then, more often than not, win a 50/50 contest on their direct opponent and/or even win the odd contest where the quality of ball coming in (or lack thereof) suggests they are likely to lose the one v one to their opponent.

Out of all of our present forwards i would probably only have Kozzy & Fritta as forwards who have the potential to do this and at times do exactly that.

Melk & Petty are the others but Melk's  a fair way off returning yet.

At present that means we have 4 forward positions where we are not likely to win one v ones and where there's a good chance the oppo will rebound fairly quickly out of our forward 50.

With one extra in Petty possibly coming back soon to make it 3 all going well?

Of course you are never going to have all 6 positions with forwards capable of out smarting their opponent more often than not.  But you would hope we would have at least 4 who have this ability most weeks (subject to luck with injuries of course).

McAdam will hopefully make it 4 on returning but while we are sitting at total of two, our chances of posting a winning score against decent or better opposition isn't looking that rosey.

Based on general play i'm tempted to throw Tracc in there as another who has this capability right now as a forward (when played there).  But unfortunately his kicking is just too ordinary for inclusion.

Edited March 12 by Demon Dynasty

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

21 minutes ago, old55 said:

Maybe, but I don't think talk about playing both Salem and McVee in the midfield does anything to address the need for cover for Bowey.

Salem & McVee share the Bowey role but also share a designated amount of mid minutes between them.

Need to get mid experience into McVee pronto.  Will also benefit our forwards with better delivery which in theory should result in a higher conversion rate and better chance of posting a winning score.

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

52 minutes ago, old55 said:

Yes Hore is first cab in the rank. Maybe we might worry about being to slow back there with Tomlinson, Lever and Hore.

Depends on how quickly and efficiently we move the ball.

Get the ball into the hands of Windsor & Lingers accurately & quickly and this won't be a probem.

The accuracy part is the potential killer though.  Last time Marty played he was VG in the air, not bad at ground level but pretry ordinary with disposal.  Hopefully he's cleaned that weakness up significantly now.

How do we rate May & Lever here?

Howes is pretty decent by foot and should be handy in this regard.

Edited March 12 by Demon Dynasty

[Its Time for Another 4,283]

20 hours ago, Nascent said:

Unpopular opinion on here it seems but I hope they persist with Laurie, at least for a few more games. Kid has skill, is one of our best by hands and when he gets his confidence up he should sharpen up those kicking skills and help our delivery inside forward 50.

In my view he appears to be a confidence player and doesn't believe he belongs yet. Doesn't help when langdon runs across his kicking line, smothering the kick and then scolds him for it, nor would it help when he was clearly ignored by Salem while he was 20 metres in the clear inside 50. Out of the 6 games he's played he's been sub or subbed out 5 times.

He will want to start showing some serious improvement however and I don't think a forward line can include all of Him, Chandler, Anb, Pickett and Spargo with McAdam to come. Up to him to start taking these chances otherwise he'll be in strife come the end of the year. 

 

 

16 hours ago, Kick_It_To_Pickett said:

Another Laurie apologist…go watch his practice match against Carlton. Made several basic skill errors in a pratice game in front of 3,000 ppl. He is lost on the big stage and executes horribly under pressure. He is not AFL standard. Lacks height and size and has little physically to make up for it, unlike a Caleb Daniel. He won’t make it. He deserves nothing. The fact he was subbed so early shows that the coaching staff knew he was a complete liability 

 

2 hours ago, BangBnagBang said:

Laurie to me hasn't picked up the pace of the game yet. He needs time to do this and then we can see if he's upto it or not. However he may just never pick it up or run out of time. 

I generally don't post about conversations I've had with people in the inner sanctum out of respect to them and their privacy. And I've already mercilessly invaded this person's privacy but KITP's comments have pushed me over the edge. 

On Sunday I was having a swim at Bondi. As I was walking in to the surf who should be walking out but Goody and his partner. I didn't realise it was him at first. He smiled at me thinking I'd recognised him which I hadn't at that point. Once I did I said Sorry Goody I'm a Dees supporter. I bet you thought you could have a swim in Sydney and not be bothered by anyone. He and his partner laughed. He was very friendly and stopped to chat for a minute. In relation to Laurie he said something to the effect that he's going to be alright. He just has to believe in himself which he will. That's not it exactly but as close as I can remember. 

He also said Jeez you're a good looking Rooster and sooo intelligent. I didn't realise we had such good looking intelligent supporters around. They must all be up here in Sydney. That's not it exactly but as close as I can remember. Or then again maybe not.........memory's so bad these days. 

[Sydee 4,529]

1 hour ago, Roost it far said:

That’s what Salem is for, here’s hoping we persist and don’t use him to cover Bowey

Personally I think they can both do some midfield minutes HBF is one of the easier gigs on the ground imho surely we can use Hore or Woey depending on matchups to fill a void 

While Petty is absent I think we are way more dangerous up forward when Trac is up there 

 

[Sydee 4,529]

3 minutes ago, Its Time for Another said:

 

 

I generally don't post about conversations I've had with people in the inner sanctum out of respect to them and their privacy. And I've already mercilessly invaded this person's privacy but KITP's comments have pushed me over the edge. 

On Sunday I was having a swim at Bondi. As I was walking in to the surf who should be walking out but Goody and his partner. I didn't realise it was him at first. He smiled at me thinking I'd recognised him which I hadn't at that point. Once I did I said Sorry Goody I'm a Dees supporter. I bet you thought you could have a swim in Sydney and not be bothered by anyone. He and his partner laughed. He was very friendly and stopped to chat for a minute. In relation to Laurie he said something to the effect that he's going to be alright. He just has to believe in himself which he will. That's not it exactly but as close as I can remember. 

He also said Jeez you're a good looking Rooster and sooo intelligent. I didn't realise we had such good looking intelligent supporters around. They must all be up here in Sydney. That's not it exactly but as close as I can remember. Or then again maybe not.........memory's so bad these days. 

No he was right about the good looking supporters in Sydney 😀

[Roost it far 8,574]

19 minutes ago, Its Time for Another said:

 

 

I generally don't post about conversations I've had with people in the inner sanctum out of respect to them and their privacy. And I've already mercilessly invaded this person's privacy but KITP's comments have pushed me over the edge. 

On Sunday I was having a swim at Bondi. As I was walking in to the surf who should be walking out but Goody and his partner. I didn't realise it was him at first. He smiled at me thinking I'd recognised him which I hadn't at that point. Once I did I said Sorry Goody I'm a Dees supporter. I bet you thought you could have a swim in Sydney and not be bothered by anyone. He and his partner laughed. He was very friendly and stopped to chat for a minute. In relation to Laurie he said something to the effect that he's going to be alright. He just has to believe in himself which he will. That's not it exactly but as close as I can remember. 

He also said Jeez you're a good looking Rooster and sooo intelligent. I didn't realise we had such good looking intelligent supporters around. They must all be up here in Sydney. That's not it exactly but as close as I can remember. Or then again maybe not.........memory's so bad these days. 

I can't tell if this is just more made up stuff. I mean the coach is hardly likely to turn around and say "Yeh, he's a spud, he'll get the chop this week"

[Demonstone 22,792]

25 minutes ago, Roost it far said:

"Yeh, he's a spud, he'll get the chop this week"

Throw in some carrots and peas and you could make a meal out of it.

[Its Time for Another 4,283]

32 minutes ago, Roost it far said:

I can't tell if this is just more made up stuff. I mean the coach is hardly likely to turn around and say "Yeh, he's a spud, he'll get the chop this week"

Don't know if you mean made up by me or him. 

I just said that for me personally from a list progression point of view Howes was the player I most wanted to see develop and get a game this year and what a great game he had. And last year it was Laurie. He didn't really have to comment on Laurie in that context so don't think it was made up. Hopefully by the end of the year it won't be a debate point and he'll had a great season. 

[old55 23,687]

3 hours ago, Demon Dynasty said:

Salem & McVee share the Bowey role but also share a designated amount of mid minutes between them.

Need to get mid experience into McVee pronto.  Will also benefit our forwards with better delivery which in theory should result in a higher conversion rate and better chance of posting a winning score.

I think you're having an arithmetic problem.

Backs against Sydney: Bowey + McVee = 2

Your plan for backs against the Dogs: 1/2 McVee + 1/2 Salem = 1

You're still short one small back.

Edited March 12 by old55

[bing181 9,328]

On 11/03/2024 at 05:33, Demon Dynasty said:

I had a good chat with Melk late last season at a Casey match (he was an observer).  While we chatted about many things, i did manage to sneak in a question specifically about "loading".

His response...

"What's loading?" lol

Pin this post so whenever anyone brings up the L word it can be referred to.

There is no in-season loading in team sports like AFL.

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

57 minutes ago, old55 said:

I think you're having an arithmetic problem.

Backs against Sydney: Bowey + McVee = 2

Your plan for backs against the Dogs: 1/2 McVee + 1/2 Salem = 1

You're still short one small back.

Yes good point and true.

Billings comes in?

That frees up McVee & Salem to play a shared role between HB & into the middle.

Regardless of how it's achieved (many ways to skin a cat) my point still stands.

Im convinced we need to gradually get McVee spending more time further up the ground (through the middle) to improve the connection coming inside.

No doubt our ball movement still has a huge question mark over it in 2024 as well.  Ranked the 5th worst in the comp last year by Champion data.

[Kent 2,913]

25 minutes ago, Demon Dynasty said:

Yes good point and true.

Billings comes in?

That frees up McVee & Salem to play a shared role between HB & into the middle.

Regardless of how it's achieved (many ways to skin a cat) my point still stands.

Im convinced we need to gradually get McVee spending more time further up the ground (through the middle) to improve the connection coming inside.

No doubt our ball movement still has a huge question mark over it in 2024 as well.  Ranked the 5th worst in the comp last year by Champion data.

I guess the coach has made this a training priority in the preseason surely